Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
303 issue
- Thread starter jdawg
- Start date
yes i acknowledge that i should have sighted in before the season but i actually wasn't even going to hunt this year or i would have bought a tikka like i want. the sports i shoot in are 10m air rifle (back in cadets) sporting clays and as garand said cowboy action shooting (sorry but the fiancé has a wedding to go to in stoon this weekend . i do not have a more suitable rifle or scope or i would have used that firearm. i tried wiggling the scope the rings and the mount and they all felt secure (the mount is a parker hale)
while were on the topic how can you tell the difference between good scope and bad scope?
i know i shouldn't be afraid to spend money on good quality items as they should last almost forever.(i think this might be a good thing for the wedding registry)
while were on the topic how can you tell the difference between good scope and bad scope?
i know i shouldn't be afraid to spend money on good quality items as they should last almost forever.(i think this might be a good thing for the wedding registry)
You can check for parallax. Fixed parallax hunting scopes should have none at 1 to 2 hundred yards.
Rest the scope solid, while it is aimed at something, anything, at about 100 to 200 yards. Move your eye from side to side and up and down, within the vision of the scope. If the crosshairs remain solid, you have no parallax. If the cross hairs move when you move your eye, then you have parallax.
On the at least three scopes that I have had that loosened internally, everyone had parallax after they loosened inside, and none had any before.
Rest the scope solid, while it is aimed at something, anything, at about 100 to 200 yards. Move your eye from side to side and up and down, within the vision of the scope. If the crosshairs remain solid, you have no parallax. If the cross hairs move when you move your eye, then you have parallax.
On the at least three scopes that I have had that loosened internally, everyone had parallax after they loosened inside, and none had any before.
I had a similar thing happen this year. Only thing was it happened at the range. I have a Parker Hale 1200C in 300 Win Mag. This rifle has always shot 1 1/2" groups for over 25 years. This year all of a sudden it's shooting "Minute of Pie Plate" Scope seemed like it was tight but the cross bolt was broken. Put on new mounts and it shoots like new. If you can't afford a good scope right now why not practice with open sights. Lots of people use nothing else. You'll likely find most of your deer will be well within 100 yards
You are on the right track stepping up to a Bushnell Trophy. That is definitely a fair combination of scope and price. You can spend more money on scopes than on the rifle... I have a couple of Burris scopes I got second hand that are great. Some looking around can get you where you want to a be.
"Take a shot - bullet lands right where you told it to go. Take another shot a few seconds later - it's off by 3(ish) inches. Take another - 6 inches, and so on.
But, if you wait for 3 or 4 minutes between each shot, it'll drive tacks."
kodiakjack, you just gave a text book example of a rifle badly in need of barrel and action bedding.
I think we should refer to rifle beddidng, as the, "Lost art of bedding a rifle."
Years ago every accomplished shooter knew how important it was. Many could tune it themselves, while others took their rifle to a friend who knew how to bed them, but all knew the importance of proper rifle bedding.
Today's shooters think everything can be resolved by finding the ammunition/bullet/powder/charge/case/primer that their rifle "likes."
Hogwash!
But, if you wait for 3 or 4 minutes between each shot, it'll drive tacks."
kodiakjack, you just gave a text book example of a rifle badly in need of barrel and action bedding.
I think we should refer to rifle beddidng, as the, "Lost art of bedding a rifle."
Years ago every accomplished shooter knew how important it was. Many could tune it themselves, while others took their rifle to a friend who knew how to bed them, but all knew the importance of proper rifle bedding.
Today's shooters think everything can be resolved by finding the ammunition/bullet/powder/charge/case/primer that their rifle "likes."
Hogwash!
If OP has a vice try this....
1- Secure rifle in vice
2- look through scope and pick a point on a fairly distant wall... 25 feet will do
3- make a mark on that wall relatively close to dead center of crosshairs (relatively)
4- while in vice adjust scope so that crosshairs are center on point
5- Ensuring rifle remains secured in vice and vice does not move give the scope a sharp tap with a rubber hammer or mallet (strike windage adjustment knob)
Look through your scope... is it still centered on your mark or did it drop / raise... If so, your scope is pooched....
1- Secure rifle in vice
2- look through scope and pick a point on a fairly distant wall... 25 feet will do
3- make a mark on that wall relatively close to dead center of crosshairs (relatively)
4- while in vice adjust scope so that crosshairs are center on point
5- Ensuring rifle remains secured in vice and vice does not move give the scope a sharp tap with a rubber hammer or mallet (strike windage adjustment knob)
Look through your scope... is it still centered on your mark or did it drop / raise... If so, your scope is pooched....
Hmm. I understand how bedding it would prevent a wandering zero, but this rifle doesn't have a wandering zero, per se...
Like I said, it's an extremely accurate rifle when the barrel is given time to cool between shots. It's only when it's fired repeatedly that the zero decides to go for a stroll. Even after going through a full magazine, if you let it sit for 15 minutes the zero comes right back to the cross hairs.
Can this this really a symptom of no bedding? None of my rifles are bedded (as you said: lost art) and nor are any of the others in the hunt camp, and yet none of them have ever had this issue...
Just a thought here kodiakjack, heat is disipatated from metal when a cooler object touches the metal. Perhaps bedding the barrel may help your rifle by taking away the heat. Like I said, just a thought.
I have a Parker Hale converted No1. I've been fighting accuracy issues all year with it due to scope mounts, rings, old brass, and headspace problems.
My last range session finally netted me 1/2 inch groups @ 25 yards while fireforming new brass. Never got that before. I will try bedding the barrel for next year. Perhaps my groups at a hundred yards will shrink also with the formed brass.
I would have given up on that rifle a long time ago, but it was my late father's hunting rifle, plus it's the very first firearm I ever handled.
I have a Parker Hale converted No1. I've been fighting accuracy issues all year with it due to scope mounts, rings, old brass, and headspace problems.
My last range session finally netted me 1/2 inch groups @ 25 yards while fireforming new brass. Never got that before. I will try bedding the barrel for next year. Perhaps my groups at a hundred yards will shrink also with the formed brass.
I would have given up on that rifle a long time ago, but it was my late father's hunting rifle, plus it's the very first firearm I ever handled.
No, that scew being loose would not produce the pattern he describes.
To make the pattern he describes, walking the bullets as the barrel warms, then returning to zero after the barrel has cooled, is a sure sign there is a lot of pressure on the wrong places on the barrel/action.
Actually, in his case, or similar, loosening the screw to where it is barely snug, may reduce this wrong pressure and could improve the situation he describes.
Hmm. Well thanks for the tips guys. I'll pull it out of the safe when I'm up at hunt camp next fall and look it over.
However, I do believe I have hijacked this thread from the OP.
My apologies. 
We now return you to your regular programming:
However, I do believe I have hijacked this thread from the OP.
My apologies. We now return you to your regular programming:
I see your point. My first instinct is to check all screws for looseness, and if that doesn't solve the problem, proceed from there.
With that in mind the OP might want to take the forestock off and examine the wood and barrel to see where they are contacting. Ideally the barrel should only be touching the wood under the chamber, so to speak. Anywhere else and you might want to scrape those areas until there is no contact elsewhere on the barrel.
You should check the tightness of the buttstock screw as well.
Well guys I finnally got to taking it apart and from what I've found it is the bases the rear of the base wiggled and the screws weren't even finger tight so let's try that first. And on the note of parallax should there be none at all at any ranges or can there be some at say living room distance?
What type bore sighter should I get laser or magnetic?
Thanks guys I really appreciate the help. And I will be trying the tasco on the rifle again as I am planning on putting the bushnell on my customized rem 597 as it currently where's the original package deal scope.
What type bore sighter should I get laser or magnetic?
Thanks guys I really appreciate the help. And I will be trying the tasco on the rifle again as I am planning on putting the bushnell on my customized rem 597 as it currently where's the original package deal scope.
I've seen the Quickspin Kid, miss before in Cowboy Action shooting so I know missing is a thing he has done once of twice
There is a Cowboy action match in Tompkins this weekend, rifle, pistol only. Hope to see you and the wife there.
That's what gopher season in Sk. was for. Start practising about when the snow started to melt, and by the time it was deer season, the whole hand/eye thing was pretty well worked out, as was the ability to discern between "I missed" and "The rifle missed".
To the OP,
The scope may not be beyond hope, at least as a .22 scope or a backup. Most of the cheap scopes use a bent V shaped spring, wedged between the scope outer wall and the adjustable tube that the crosshairs is in. It is supposed to be about the 7:30 position, looking in from the back.
As long as you are willing to remove the back end of the scope and poke around, you don't have much to lose.
Most of the failed scopes I have had given to me, were because of this. The rest had broken reticles, mainly.
Cheers
Trev
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Remove Scope, bases and mounts, group rifle at 50yds from benchrest with iron sights supplied.
The PH No1Mk111 I zeroed for a gent shot MOA @ 100yds with winchester 180gr PPSP's! I was to say the least , impressed.
I would expect at least 2 MOA( 1" group) at 50yds with the irons. If you are somewhere there, proceed to the telescopic addition, remounting base/mounts and then to a BETTER scope. This will help you determine the Rifle itself does not have issues you can't fix yourself, before spending more money on a better scope. If you are not an iron sight shooter, further than 50yds sometimes becomes a waste of ammo and frustration when trying to rule out a rifle's absolute inherent accuracy, without buying a new scope.
Good luck with resolving and remember to always pre -season sight in/ confirm zero, ........even if it shot laser beams last fall.
The PH No1Mk111 I zeroed for a gent shot MOA @ 100yds with winchester 180gr PPSP's! I was to say the least , impressed.
I would expect at least 2 MOA( 1" group) at 50yds with the irons. If you are somewhere there, proceed to the telescopic addition, remounting base/mounts and then to a BETTER scope. This will help you determine the Rifle itself does not have issues you can't fix yourself, before spending more money on a better scope. If you are not an iron sight shooter, further than 50yds sometimes becomes a waste of ammo and frustration when trying to rule out a rifle's absolute inherent accuracy, without buying a new scope.
Good luck with resolving and remember to always pre -season sight in/ confirm zero, ........even if it shot laser beams last fall.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Some older cheap scopes had some parallax when new. Most sold today have little or none, even the cheap ones.
Tasco scopes sold today are far better than those of their early years.
Thirty years or so ago, a friend showed me his Tasco crosshairs laying in the bottom of his scope. That was on Marlin 30-30, not exactly a recoil king.
Today's Tasco's are better constructed, and I have one that I've used on a number of rifles over the years.
Looking around in your living room, my guess is that you don't have a solid enough rest to check parallax.
Tighten the screws and take it to the range. If it shoots well and consistently at the ranges you are expecting to shoot, the parallax is probably a non-issue.
well finally got back to the range and let me say that i love this rifle again. i didn't shoot much because it was getting dark but from the looks of it i was shooting moa with both winchesters and hornady. it was about 3 inches lower with the hornady.but i think the base must have been a little loose for a while because I've never had it shoot like this.
