870 barrels- dlask vs dominion arms

J.P. said:
I have a Dlask and a Remington 14". They were both about the same price as is being asked for these, but you get more. Remington has the pedestal base and fixed modified choke. Dlask has threaded choke tube and blade sight. Those are expensive things to get done by a gunsmith. By the time I ship a barrel insured back and forth to a smith and get a sight base soldered on with a bead like remington has its gonna be easily a hundred bucks or more all together not $1.50 as was suggested. To try and tell a customer he is only losing a value of $1.50 by not having any sights on a barrel is either an insult or an assumption of stupidity quite frankly.

I was hoping by making some suggestions NEA might try to earn some some business by addressing the issue. Instead I get told the missing bead is only worth $1.50. Maybe the list of gunsmiths that install sight beads for that price could be provided? Sorry to get snarky but that was insulting.

I'll just buy remington barrels when I see them. Limited availabilty but they show up now and then.
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But we can't be expected to drop the prices of our product $100 because of what you want to do with it.

They will have beads.. these don't. It's a $1.50 part and minimal labor for us to do it. Whether they have beads or not and someone decided they wanted a blade sight, they'd still be looking at that cost. We can't price our products according to what someone might or might not want to do to it after they've bought it. What we can do is manufacture a product and charge you a reasonable price based on its manufacturing costs.

The intent was to install beads.. we weren't happy with the product so rather than just slapping it on there we didn't install them. Several people have expressed interest in attaching banded sights, one of our dealers is even making fiber bands available with them. So rather than just have product sitting here, and those looking to install these types of sights rather having a cleaner barrel.. we have these.

Now if you want to install another type of sight (ie pedestal base or blade), we can sell them in the white with no bead hole cut to save you refinishing costs. If you'd prefer to have just a bead, then you'll have to wait for them to be available. And when that happens, the price won't increase.


..I really don't know what more we can do. I believe that we've tried to lay out a remedy that makes the most users happy.


(Or for about $12 total you can drill/tap thread a bead on yourself with minimal tools.)
 
North Eastern Arms said:
.. It does reflect that the $1.50 bead sight is not installed.

In fact when beads are added, we won't raise the price later on you.
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Cool I've got a few barrels that need beads installed.....:rockOn:

$1.50 is a great deal to drill, tap and install a shotgun bead!

On another note, have you guys shot the barrels with a basic bead?

I'm thinking it needs a pedestal base to raise the bead up but I haven't had a chance to shoot with one of your barrels.....

Pedestals are also quite inexpensive but they do require some soldering.....
 
North Eastern Arms said:
But we can't be expected to drop the prices of our product $100 because of what you want to do with it.

They will have beads.. these don't. It's a $1.50 part and minimal labor for us to do it. Whether they have beads or not and someone decided they wanted a blade sight, they'd still be looking at that cost. We can't price our products according to what someone might or might not want to do to it after they've bought it. What we can do is manufacture a product and charge you a reasonable price based on its manufacturing costs.

The intent was to install beads.. we weren't happy with the product so rather than just slapping it on there we didn't install them. Several people have expressed interest in attaching banded sights, one of our dealers is even making fiber bands available with them. So rather than just have product sitting here, and those looking to install these types of sights rather having a cleaner barrel.. we have these.

Now if you want to install another type of sight (ie pedestal base or blade), we can sell them in the white with no bead hole cut to save you refinishing costs. If you'd prefer to have just a bead, then you'll have to wait for them to be available. And when that happens, the price won't increase.


..I really don't know what more we can do. I believe that we've tried to lay out a remedy that makes the most users happy.


(Or for about $12 total you can drill/tap thread a bead on yourself with minimal tools.)
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I guess I should have read a little further as JP addressed the $1.50 bead quote.

I guess I still have 2 questions for you though,
How much for in the white?
Will these hit point of aim with a basic bead at 25 yards?
 
.. It only costs us $1 ea to park them. So we can knock off that.

Same issue as installing beads; it's all a matter of volume.

.. The shorter the barrel the higher the sight needs to be. A bead only provides a reference point. <14" barrels are not intended as long range deer bangers.. They're for short range. Youy need to choose your components to suit your need.

If you're hunting, skeet/trap shooting or competing at standard ranges a short barrel gun is probably not your ideal tool.

Short barreled shotguns kick more, have more flash and less accuracy. You need to offset those disadvantages by using in the right environment. If you're just looking for the "cool factor".. Well they are fun, and fun to use and fun to watch.
 
North Eastern Arms said:
But we can't be expected to drop the prices of our product $100 because of what you want to do with it.

They will have beads.. these don't. It's a $1.50 part and minimal labor for us to do it. Whether they have beads or not and someone decided they wanted a blade sight, they'd still be looking at that cost. We can't price our products according to what someone might or might not want to do to it after they've bought it. What we can do is manufacture a product and charge you a reasonable price based on its manufacturing costs.

The intent was to install beads.. we weren't happy with the product so rather than just slapping it on there we didn't install them. Several people have expressed interest in attaching banded sights, one of our dealers is even making fiber bands available with them. So rather than just have product sitting here, and those looking to install these types of sights rather having a cleaner barrel.. we have these.

Now if you want to install another type of sight (ie pedestal base or blade), we can sell them in the white with no bead hole cut to save you refinishing costs. If you'd prefer to have just a bead, then you'll have to wait for them to be available. And when that happens, the price won't increase.


..I really don't know what more we can do. I believe that we've tried to lay out a remedy that makes the most users happy.


(Or for about $12 total you can drill/tap thread a bead on yourself with minimal tools.)
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I don't think you know what it costs to have a bead installed Sir. That is the most polite way I can respond to the new $12 price. I am not a gunsmith, if I buy a barrel with no sights whatsoever, and I want just a basic bead I need to have it done professionally, especially if i want it done properly, and want to make sure it is tdc and not going to compromise the barrel in some way by being done by bubba. I can't even mail a barrel to a gunsmith for $12. $12 does not even cover the shipping costs to buy a tap, let alone the tap itself, or any other tool needed. You need to put yourself in your customers shoes. If I buy your barrel, I need to spend probably another $100 when its all said and done just to get a bead on it.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time on purpose and I apologize for giving you grief on a public forum. I actually brought the issue up hoping to give you a chance to realize you need to look at the product a little more closely and respond to customer concerns. I wanted to buy a barrel, which is why I was hoping you would look at this a little more closely and come up with a better solution. However, each response keeps getting worse.
 
J.P. said:
I don't think you know what it costs to have a bead installed Sir. That is the most polite way I can respond to the new $12 price. I am not a gunsmith, if I buy a barrel with no sights whatsoever, and I want just a basic bead I need to have it done professionally, especially if i want it done properly, and want to make sure it is tdc and not going to compromise the barrel in some way by being done by bubba. I can't even mail a barrel to a gunsmith for $12. $12 does not even cover the shipping costs to buy a tap, let alone the tap itself, or any other tool needed. You need to put yourself in your customers shoes. If I buy your barrel, I need to spend probably another $100 when its all said and done just to get a bead on it.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time on purpose and I apologize for giving you grief on a public forum. I actually brought the issue up hoping to give you a chance to realize you need to look at the product a little more closely and respond to customer concerns. I wanted to buy a barrel, which is why I was hoping you would look at this a little more closely and come up with a better solution. However, each response keeps getting worse.
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Like I said, if you are patient they'll be available. If your focusing on this batch, then I fear there is no acceptable solution that I can provide.
 
North Eastern Arms said:
.. It only costs us $1 ea to park them. So we can knock off that.

Same issue as installing beads; it's all a matter of volume.

.. The shorter the barrel the higher the sight needs to be. A bead only provides a reference point. <14" barrels are not intended as long range deer bangers.. They're for short range. Youy need to choose your components to suit your need.

If you're hunting, skeet/trap shooting or competing at standard ranges a short barrel gun is probably not your ideal tool.

Short barreled shotguns kick more, have more flash and less accuracy. You need to offset those disadvantages by using in the right environment. If you're just looking for the "cool factor".. Well they are fun, and fun to use and fun to watch.
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Now a parkerizing job is $1.00

How much does the whole barrel cost you to make then? Can I get a 35 cent discount if you don't cut a chamber? Sheesh
 
It's not magic or voodoo...

Do you think we make barrels one at a time with hand tools? We're not that good. Parkerizing is charged by the batch, whatever fits in the bath. We like to put more than one barrel in at a time. And at only $75 a batch you can imagine how much we push into a tank. $1/part for parkerizing is actually pretty expensive considering the majority of our parts are much smaller than a shotgun barrel.
 
the value to someone that does not own a machine shop or a parkerizing tank is more than what it costs you as a manufacturer.

You can't say the barrel should be $1 less because it cost you $1 less to make. You need to reduce your retail price by the amount that a parkerizing job costs at retail. You deduct your manufacturing cost, and the customer has to add on the retail equivalent but you already charged the retail value for that component less your cost. You just charged markup for something you didn't provide.
 
North Eastern Arms said:
If you have them in batches of 500, sure. But you have to supply your own labor, because our hire out rate is higher than our in house rate. ;)
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500 eh.....:D

But on a serious note that leaves one very impotant (too me) question for NEA.
Have you guys tested these barrels for sight height or what?
 
J.P. said:
the value to someone that does not own a machine shop or a parkerizing tank is more than what it costs you as a manufacturer.

You can't say the barrel should be $1 less because it cost you $1 less to make. You need to reduce your retail price by the amount that a parkerizing job costs at retail. You deduct your manufacturing cost, and the customer has to add on the retail equivalent but you already charged the retail value for that component less your cost. You just charged markup for something you didn't provide.
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Ok, we'll just give them away because they don't have a bead. Gotcha.

With that logic, I guess you'll price out what it'll cost you to make one barrel by hand to the same spec as ours by machine and in volume and we'll just up the cost to that.

It really is amazing what some people think goes into making a product. :rolleyes:

It also makes me wonder why at 11:30pm at night I'm still here working, trying to make one person happy on a product that he has no intention on purchasing in the first place... Funny, because that costs more than the barrel.. sans bead sights and all. ;)
 
J.P. said:
the value to someone that does not own a machine shop or a parkerizing tank is more than what it costs you as a manufacturer.

You can't say the barrel should be $1 less because it cost you $1 less to make. You need to reduce your retail price by the amount that a parkerizing job costs at retail. You deduct your manufacturing cost, and the customer has to add on the retail equivalent but you already charged the retail value for that component less your cost. You just charged markup for something you didn't provide.
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i have a little bit of experience in manufacturing estimating. The normal way that overhead and costing is done would be like this;

Cost of raw material + Cost of Labor + External processing + external components (bead sights) X mark up / Profit = dealer cost x dealer mark up = MSRP

If processing and bead sights are removed, i dont see how you can expect a significant reduction....... Are you suggesting that NEA should discount the barrels $100+ even though they would then be in a position of loosing money just because you would have to pay to have sights added? Are you saying that if the going rate for phosphate is $150 per load and the gun smithing for a bead sight is $100, you should get the barrel for $30??????????
 
gun bunny said:
i have a little bit of experience in manufacturing estimating. The normal way that overhead and costing is done would be like this;

Cost of raw material + Cost of Labor + External processing + external components (bead sights) X mark up / Profit = dealer cost x dealer mark up = MSRP

If processing and bead sights are removed, i dont see how you can expect a significant reduction....... Are you suggesting that NEA should discount the barrels $100+ even though they would then be in a position of loosing money just because you would have to pay to have sights added? Are you saying that if the going rate for phosphate is $150 per load and the gun smithing for a bead sight is $100, you should get the barrel for $30??????????
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I think the market will take care of the price question in a few months when these things are flying of the shelf....or not.

I'd be stoked to pay the NEA 870 barrel's asking price if it was for a Mossberg 14 "er and even more so for an Ithaca 12.5" barrel!
 
J.P. said:
14" barrels are readily available for $150. Not hard to find at all.
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If you have a source for brand new $150.00 14" factory Remington barrels post it up.

Not Chinese Norinco barrels - Remington barrels.

Let's see your source.
 
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