VZ 58 Muzzle Devices [PIC HEAVY]

Exoce†;6413389 said:
Pretty sure Dlask has a sweet bridge for sale too. :D

All jokes aside, that guy is gonna have to make a new video with it indexed correctly and showing muzzle displacement in both the vertical and lateral directions. Maybe do a comparison between another muzzle-brake and/or no brake.
Click to expand...
If you are talking about the same guy,
he has FIRST to learn how to hold a rifle,
before posting videos on youtube.
There is no way to hold a rifle that long by the mag
and after that complain about getting smacked in the face
(I don't care who he is on CGN).
No wonder he's geting smacked (some people
might argue that he even deserves it).

[YOUTUBE]RXOyWd4QGSk[/YOUTUBE]





Secondly, the AKM-style comp
is intended for 58's with the original short barrel.
On the 858, that comp will overcompensate
due to the greater leverage provided by the longer barrel.
As I said it many times, 5.56, 7.62x39
and few other calibers shot from bbls 18" or longer
will not need muzzle raise compensation as badly (if at all)
as a bbl. 16" or shorter.
 
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lol, Clobb, that Dlask A6 brake looks like it adds lots of knock-down power to your rifle. As in it'll knock down everything in the vicinity!
Lector - I'd have to agree with your last point there. I can't say I find the muzzle flip on my 858 to be really bad, or violent, though I haven't run any aimed rapid-fire drills with it yet, either.
I will have to try the AKM brake indexed with the offset as shown in Supernova's post though.
 
There is a little bit of misinfo and all kind of BS on the net
regarding the indexing on the side,
saying sompin about right/left hand rifling twist
and ambidextruous masturbators and all kind of other BS.

The truth is that on the original Russian AK equiped with it,
the comp had only one notch (it could be assembled in one position only).
That way it would also compensate for the torque of that
specific barrel length, twist rate, mil. load, etc
and as fired by right hand shooters only
(oh, yeah, and who knew how to hold the gun correctly).

You would not find that comp installed by the military
on other guns (RPK wouldn't need it since its barrel was long).
 
Dr.Lector said:
There is a little bit of misinfo and all kind of BS on the net
regarding the indexing on the side,
saying sompin about right/left hand rifling twist
and ambidextruous masturbators and all kind of other BS.

The truth is that on the original Russian AK equiped with it,
the comp had only one notch (it could be assembled in one position only).
That way it would also compensate for the torque of that
specific barrel length, twist rate, mil. load, etc
and as fired by right hand shooters only
(oh, yeah, and who knew how to hold the gun correctly).

You would not find that comp installed by the military
on other guns (RPK wouldn't need it since its barrel was long).
Click to expand...
bas said:
New to my collection, at least until the owner gets his licence; a 1976 dated Tula AKM with plenty of character:

AKM_013.JPG


AKM_014.JPG
Click to expand...
Sorry Mr. Lector but this is the best a :ninja:/computer comando could come up with to disprove your statement.
:p
You will also notice that it is angled to match the direction of the rifling twist. I would also gather that large smaking sensation might be caused by incorectley index muzzle brake witch would cause torquing of ones rifle when firing causing the user to get a wake up call notifing him to adjust his muzzle deviece properly.
Just a wild gues though from far out in left feild.
cou:
 
Satain, I think you misunderstand what Lector is talking about.:)

I learned a long time ago, that when Lector provides info about muzzle brakes or comps (or most anything else firearm related for that matter), that you better take note of what he says. Unlike others on this board, he knows what he's talking about.
 
Dr.Lector said:
If you are talking about the same guy,
he has FIRST to learn how to hold a rifle,
before posting videos on youtube.
There is no way to hold a rifle that long by the mag
and after that complain about getting smacked in the face
(I don't care who he is on CGN).
No wonder he's geting smacked (some people
might argue that he even deserves it).
Click to expand...

Wow! A damning indictment against a guy who's making your point for you.
You must really hate that guy.
 
Exoce†, I don't hate him.
I was only commenting on the video
and the answers in the video comments section.
Nice beard, BTW. I guess the pic in your avatar was taken
before you grew the beard for your videos.

Yeah, I knew it was your video, that's why I thought
I shouldn't go too heavy on my comments about it in this thread.
Peace, bro :)








Satain, I don't really understand the point you are trying to make.
Please quote exactly the portion of my post you "disprove"
(and please note that I stand behind every single dot in my post
and I'm ready to take a beating).

The AK comp in the pics you quote stays the way is supposed to.
As I said in my post,
the Russian one can be installed only one way
(in other words, it is idiot-proof, as almost anything on an AK).

However, the comp in those pics
is not really correct on a 1976 non-Izhmash AK
(in fact, it seems to me that almost the whole gun
in the pics quoted by you is made of disparate pieces).



Torque.
For you semiauto, 5 rounds per mag, Canada fancy, Sunday shoters
torque is quite a non-issue (even for the youtube little whiny b!tches).
Hundreds of you guys are using every day very common muzzle devices
which are enhancing the torque of the gun,
and you don't even notice, FFS.


But if you feel you know about it,
you or anybody else, please explain
(and don't forget to disprove my post).

I mentioned the torque in my previous post only because I had to explain
the rotated position of that comp. I shouldn't have gone there.

So, Satain, again, please detail the point you are trying to make
(and quote the wrongs in my post).

:)
 
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LOL!!!
I was tring to say it sarcasticaly.
I thought the post was supposed to re-enforce your facts that you posted and not :stirthepot2:
Satain said:
Sorry Mr. Lector but this is the best a :ninja:/computer comando could come up with to disprove your statement.
:p
Click to expand...
The same type of idea when you call some one who is fat...
"Hey there skinny".
Maybe next time I should state this instead of trying to say something sarcastic on the internet as some people might find it hard to understand.
Satain said:
As for me I prefer to use it in the same direction as my rate of twist and I notice barrely any muzzle rise & no smaking of the butt stock to ones face.
Click to expand...
 
I apologize for being so pitiable as to be beneath your contempt.

Dr.Lector said:
Exoce†, I don't hate him.
I was only commenting on the video
and the answers in the video comments section.
Nice beard, BTW. I guess the pic in your avatar was taken
before you grew the beard for your videos.

Yeah, I knew it was your video, that's why I thought
I shouldn't go too heavy on my comments about it in this thread.
Peace, bro :)
Click to expand...
 
Dr.Lector said:
If you are talking about the same guy,
he has FIRST to learn how to hold a rifle,
before posting videos on youtube.
There is no way to hold a rifle that long by the mag
and after that complain about getting smacked in the face
(I don't care who he is on CGN).
Click to expand...

Hmmm. My son, daughter and I fired ours holding the mag all day, with so little recoil it wasnt an issue. We could keep our thumbs on the mag release ready to change after the fourth round.

Notice also Brent is left handed.

jennyshootscz.jpg


brentshooting.jpg
 
Holding the mag does not allow you to get full control on the gun. It's not as stable a platform for controlling recoil, nor does it give you as precise control when shooting multiple targets.

Part of your job is to control recoil, to be an active participant in the process, not just reactionary to the phenomena.

Using the hand-guard (it's there for a reason remember) gets your hand out closer to the muzzle allowing you to control recoil better and any torque issues associated with the rifle and body mechanics.

I posted this video in another thread recently, there are others if you do a search, but it kinda illustrates the point. Try it for yourself, you'll be surprised with the results. Happy shooting! :)

[Youtube]ti1Qhri530Q[/Youtube]
 
Interesting, but not scientific, sorry. To do a real stats test (I've been doing statistical analysis for business and science for 20 years) a much larger sample would be needed. What I would like to see is the standard deviation of such tests (how much the average and medians fluctuate). I would also want to see if someone using just the mag well over several years improved and just as fast (statistically) as someone using the fore stock. Then I would like to see if a foregrip used as well and see how that number turns out.

In the CQB, you well know, time is lost changing mags. The quicker that happens the more time you can spend lining up the next shots. Can't get a good score if I hear "AND STOP" while holding the next mag in my hand.

So lots of factors to consider. The bottom line would be practice, practice, practice. Which next year I plan to do. Especially after I change the rifle's setup.
 
Dr.Lector said:
Torque.
For you semiauto, 5 rounds per mag, Canada fancy, Sunday shoters
torque is quite a non-issue (even for the youtube little whiny b!tches).
Hundreds of you guys are using every day very common muzzle devices
which are enhancing the torque of the gun,
and you don't even notice, FFS.
Click to expand...
Can I ask for an example of an every day common muzzle device that is enhancing the torque of the gun? Is that device common only for Vz?
 
^^^^^^^^^^^
Sure. The SE Vortex muzzle device is a common example
that enhances the torque on any gun, any caliber, any bbl lenght, etc
if the rifling twist is right hand (like 99% of the barrels in the world are).
:)
 
I'm debating whether to get a '74 style brake, I just like them. Normally I try to keep non VZ specific components off my gun but I might make an exception in this case.

If I did bother getting one I'd go with a "real" one and not a cheap knockoff. If I don't like it or get tired of it I can always pass it off to one of my American friends I figure.
 
Clobbersauras said:
Holding the mag does not allow you to get full control on the gun. It's not as stable a platform for controlling recoil, nor does it give you as precise control when shooting multiple targets.
Click to expand...

I have carried both MP5s and M4s as primaries, (as well as a couple others). I am not a hundred percent on CZ 858 or other Red Rifles but I could not disagree more about holding the mag not being a stable shooting platform. I am of average height and weight and with the stock fully collapsed and my hand on the mag of an M4 I had an extremely stable, effective platform enabling extremely fast tactical and emergency reloads. During my training and experience it was very common (not the rule but common) to see others holding their primary like this. It was never challenged once with any instructor or trainer, in fact it was encourage. In fact, from a prone position having the mag of a M4 resting on soft ground is perfectly legitimate.
 
^^If it works for you that's great. If you've carried rifles in your employment you have much more experience with them than I. Can I ask what period of time you did most of your training on those platforms (80's, 90's, 2000's)?

I've tried both methods and for me the magwell hold is not the best solution for any off hand dynamic shooting.

But make sure you do your own testing. But be fair about it and time your results and measure your hits.

Also, check out any current top tier trainers of carbine applications and see what method they use. Check out names like Larry Vickers, Kyle Defoor, Jason Falla, Chris Costa.
 
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