25-06: tell me about your game taken

Don't make the mistake of thinking recoil in a .270 or .30-06 is a strong, it is on the contrary quite light and comfortable to any shooter with even moderate experience.


...I should have added, look how many 140lb 19 year olds shot the .30-06 and its equal class contemporaries as a standard service cartridges. Any hunter can use a .30-06, and you'll be better off for it, especially on elk. I opt for bigger yet, insurance is cheap.
 
I have a ruger m77 25-06 tang safety. I load 100 grain barnes tsx. In my oponion this is one of the best all around guns for hunting small to med game. I have taken many coyotes, deer, and a moose with this rifle with no problems. The 25-06 is a fast flat shooting round with little recoil. When a deer gets hit by this caliber the lights go out immediatly. Just my 2 cents.
 
I have harvested moose, elk, b.bear, deer and pronghorn. Loaded with bullets like the TTSX I'm just as confident with my 25-06 as my 300WSM or 338WM.
 
I have harvested moose, elk, b.bear, deer and pronghorn. Loaded with bullets like the TTSX I'm just as confident with my 25-06 as my 300WSM or 338WM.

While I think that the monolithic bullets do make small caliber, light bullets far more capable than their history suggests, to say that a 120 gr (for example) .25-06 is as capable as a 250 grain .338 Partition is silly. Make that a 250 gr. TSX in .338, and the comparison is just absurd.

I think, in proper hands, with the proper bullet, there is no reason to not use the .25-06 on any "non dangerous" game. But there is no way that you can make a .25-06 into a .338 WM. Let's not let love blind us to truth.
 
I'm late to this thread but I'll post my 2 cents worth anyway.
I use my A-Bolt Stainless Stalker 25-06 with factory Federal Premium 117gr Nosler Partitons for deer and caribou. It has dropped 4 caribou, including two B&C bulls, just like wet noodles "on the spot" over three years that I've owned it.
By the way, it hates all boattails and hates CorLokt 120's. Shoots NP's like a dream though.

It is just a great calibre up to caribou but for moose and ESPECIALLY for elk my 30-06 with 180 gr. Nosler Partitions is my "go to" rifle. I MIGHT use the 25-06 for the big boys in a pinch but would prefer not to.

I spent a lifetime hunting with 30-06 and 308 but I'm really enjoying the lighter calibres these last few years. I use a 243 alternately with the 25-06 for deer just because I like the rifles, the size and weight and recoil comfort.:)
 
I have a fairly wide variety of guns, and always choose something different each time I go out. My 25-06 Ruger 77 loves all the bullets I feed it. The 100 gr TTSX and pretty much any premium bullet I use shoot fast and well. The only moose I shot with it , ran about 40 yards or so and just literally did a faceplant. Same with caribou. (only without the running part!!!) I keep it on hand for wolves while snowmobiling up here, its a surefire way to reach out and touch something nice and furry that you don't necessarily want to touch in person.
It's capable enough that I don't care if I take my .25-06, 270, 30-30, 300wm when I hunt. I grab the gun that fits the bill more than the caliber that can kill best. Its plenty enough to kill any meat animal ....moose, caribou, deer, elk, black bear, etc etc,( I wouldn't intentionally hunt dangerous game with it, but would surely pull the trigger if needed!!) and lordy lordy, the flat reach is nice for long shots across frozen lakes like I do occasionally up here when wolves are in full flight heading to the woods.
 
While I think that the monolithic bullets do make small caliber, light bullets far more capable than their history suggests, to say that a 120 gr (for example) .25-06 is as capable as a 250 grain .338 Partition is silly. Make that a 250 gr. TSX in .338, and the comparison is just absurd.

I think, in proper hands, with the proper bullet, there is no reason to not use the .25-06 on any "non dangerous" game. But there is no way that you can make a .25-06 into a .338 WM. Let's not let love blind us to truth.

O'Connor and Keith never settled the debate so I doubt it will be settled on CGN. The old school days of needing bigger guns with heavier bullets to overcome bullet failure/separation of traditional cup and core bullets are long gone. There's no need to make 25-06 into a 338WM, put the proper bullet in the proper place and it don't matter, dead is dead.

The closest I come to dangerous game in SK is some of my snotty cows that spend the summer in the poplars while on grass, when it comes time I bring out the big gun (.22lr) to put them down.
 
I agree with rral22. Better bullets have made mouse guns more reliable killers, but put the same quality bullet in a bigger chambering and you have that much better of a setup. I've watched amped up elk+ size game take hits from a .300 Weatherby and merely slow down, only to be dead stopped by my .375 H&H with overlapping hits seconds later. It's because the .375 penetrated a lot more, and carried a larger wound channel through him.

A .25-06 has nothing on a .338 Mag, and if you're not seeing differences in effectiveness I'm not sure what to tell ya, other than that difference is there you're just not seeing it. Or perhaps shot placement is suffering in the .338, and is sharper in the .25-06. Dead is certainly dead, but there's a lot of different paths to dead, and no hunter I've ever met would deny a .338 hit's going to be more effective than a .25 hit. I'm a big quarter-bore fan, just bought a new .250 Savage Ruger No.1, and have a wildcat in .257 as well, but I'm also a .375 H&H fan and my .375's the busiest gun in the cabinet. I like insurance, and I've seen it pay off, such as six weeks ago with a Texas heart shot to drop my brother's mortally wounded and coughing up lung SCI Gold Medal Blue Wildebeest. The .300 Weatherby couldn't reach the vitals again with the shot presented in the finale before he was long gone Hyena food, but the .375 had no issue. Your .338 probably would have made it too, but not the .25-06. Those shots and situations happen in Canada too.

Any good shot with a small gun is better with a big gun. Any bad shot with a small gun is far better with a big gun.
 
I agree with rral22. Better bullets have made mouse guns more reliable killers, but put the same quality bullet in a bigger chambering and you have that much better of a setup. I've watched amped up elk+ size game take hits from a .300 Weatherby and merely slow down, only to be dead stopped by my .375 H&H with overlapping hits seconds later. It's because the .375 penetrated a lot more, and carried a larger wound channel through him.

A .25-06 has nothing on a .338 Mag, and if you're not seeing differences in effectiveness I'm not sure what to tell ya, other than that difference is there you're just not seeing it. Or perhaps shot placement is suffering in the .338, and is sharper in the .25-06. Dead is certainly dead, but there's a lot of different paths to dead, and no hunter I've ever met would deny a .338 hit's going to be more effective than a .25 hit. I'm a big quarter-bore fan, just bought a new .250 Savage Ruger No.1, and have a wildcat in .257 as well, but I'm also a .375 H&H fan and my .375's the busiest gun in the cabinet. I like insurance, and I've seen it pay off, such as six weeks ago with a Texas heart shot to drop my brother's mortally wounded and coughing up lung SCI Gold Medal Blue Wildebeest. The .300 Weatherby couldn't reach the vitals again with the shot presented in the finale before he was long gone Hyena food, but the .375 had no issue. Your .338 probably would have made it too, but not the .25-06. Those shots and situations happen in Canada too.

Any good shot with a small gun is better with a big gun. Any bad shot with a small gun is far better with a big gun.

Ardent - have you read Ganyana's "Bullet Wounds on Game: How Survivable are They? (or why shot placement is more important than you realise) - African Hunter Volume 9, Number 3?

If so, how do you think his views transfer to our North American game (especially given the fact that we do not use solids here)?
 
There is no question I would take my .338WM with it's favourite 225gr. TTSX load if I was hunting similar situations to those Ardent referenced wherein anchoring an animal is critical. However, as I stated earlier, I hunt the bald ass prairies of SK. And with the exception of bear (done in parklands and boreal) there is no need to anchor a elk or moose or any other big game on the prairies. Whether they are DRT or run 10-200 yards before bleeding out they are still in the middle of a stubble/hay field. Hell, they could run +500 yards (they never do) before bleeding out and they would still be in the middle of a stubble/hay field.

The fact of the matter is, that while some people can shoot magnums and big bores well some do not. I have seen more people make poor shots from with flinching or taking marginal shots believing with their magnum/ultramag/big bore was the hammer of Thor. When in reality they would be much better off shooting a mild recoiling gun such as a 25-06, .270, 30-06, etc (with quality bullets) and/or waiting for the high percentage shot to present itself so the bullet could be put where it needs to be. Certainly, that's the case in the situations I was referring to on the prairie.
 
Packed a 25.06 for the best part of 20 years to hunt deer, and it just doesn't get any better. More DRT kills than with any other caliber. And pretty much all of 'em using Federal Premium Sierra GameKing 117s.

Had one 4x3 muley buck walk out of the trees almost straight at me at 150 yds. Put one between his front shoulders, and it hit the dirt without even twitching. Two close in neck shots, both deer literally flipped and landed feet up without another move, DRT. Dropped a 4x4 muley buck at about 250 yds, where it rolled down the hill, DRT. Once went 8 straight one shot kills over a stretch of seasons before I finally screwed up and missed one outright.

However, here in the E. Kootenays one also has to be conscious of the possibility of meeting up with Mr. Griz, so I moved up to a .300 WM.

Yep, the quality of today's bullets has changed everything. I now use Barnes TSX/TTSX 130s in my Win Mag, as I can no longer justify putting up with the recoil generated by 165 of 180 bullets at the range. Plus, at roughly 3500 fps they only drop about 5" or so inches at 300 yards. And I'm pretty confident, push comes to shove, these bullets at these speeds are going to penetrate end to end without breaking up or deflection on just about any bear with devastating results.

If I were living anywhere east of the Rockies, I'd be shootin' a 25.06 for both deer and elk...but moose, probably not. For deer sized game it's just about magic in how well it works.
 
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Shot and still do shoot a Sako Hunter 25-06 for 31 years now. Fine calibre and have shot plenty of big whitetail with it. For moose and elk I move up to a 30-06 or 338... because I can.
 
There is no question I would take my .338WM with it's favourite 225gr. TTSX load if I was hunting similar situations to those Ardent referenced wherein anchoring an animal is critical. However, as I stated earlier, I hunt the bald ass prairies of SK. And with the exception of bear (done in parklands and boreal) there is no need to anchor a elk or moose or any other big game on the prairies. Whether they are DRT or run 10-200 yards before bleeding out they are still in the middle of a stubble/hay field. Hell, they could run +500 yards (they never do) before bleeding out and they would still be in the middle of a stubble/hay field.

The fact of the matter is, that while some people can shoot magnums and big bores well some do not. I have seen more people make poor shots from with flinching or taking marginal shots believing with their magnum/ultramag/big bore was the hammer of Thor. When in reality they would be much better off shooting a mild recoiling gun such as a 25-06, .270, 30-06, etc (with quality bullets) and/or waiting for the high percentage shot to present itself so the bullet could be put where it needs to be. Certainly, that's the case in the situations I was referring to on the prairie.

You haven't actually shot many moose in Saskatchewan, have you.

It actually sounds like you haven't hunted much in Sask. either. In over 50 years of living and hunting in Saskatchewan, I have almost never ended up with a dead game animal in the middle of a stubble field. You need to get out and go for some walks in Saskatchewan.
 
When I was a teenager I used my Dad's 25-06 on a few deer. They died. I like it for deer, but haven't used in on anything else.

I now own a 6.5-06, which is almost a 25-06. Only 0.007" bigger. I've also killed a couple deer with it. They died. It works well on deer.

I've carried the 6.5-06 with 130gr Accubonds when looking for elk, but haven't had an opportunity to take an elk while carrying it.
 
Ardent - have you read Ganyana's "Bullet Wounds on Game: How Survivable are They? (or why shot placement is more important than you realise) - African Hunter Volume 9, Number 3?

If so, how do you think his views transfer to our North American game (especially given the fact that we do not use solids here)?

Thanks for that, fascinating article, and a great read for others interested: http://www.shakariconnection.com/bullet-wounds.html

I found myself nodding my head through the article, the main point I'd agree on is game are far tougher than we realize compared to us. I would like to add that a lot of game wounded is assumed to be a miss. I think a lot of animals are lost in Canada due to a marginal hit leaving little to no sign to be found, the animal running off, and the hunter assuming he missed when in reality, a gut or even marginal lung shot was made. I know myself I've come close to that mistake, and then found the telling pin pricks of blood- a few almost invisible droplets. I ended up recovering the animal, still on its feet despite what on inspection proved was almost certainly a fatal first hit.

There is a big difference between African game and Canadian, to be sure. African is undeniably tougher, as they've evolved in conjunction with Lion, Leopard, Hyena, Cheetah, other predation, and most poignantly man, and surviving missed attacks by the large predators can be critical to species' survival. Traits like 1" thick leather-tough skin underlain by fat to resist claws and spears seal off wounds from bleeding (see the picture from a giraffe I was cutting up taken in Zimbabwe last year below, that hide is an inch thick, hard as leather) have evolved. They call Africa "The Living Pleistocene" as massive animals extinct or isolated elsewhere have survived there in large numbers, likely due to evolving long-term with humans and other highly successful predators.

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I do feel marginal chamberings will see far more success here than in Africa. If you showed up with a .25-06 in camp in wild Africa (not a game farm in South Africa, they're less choosy) you'd likely have it politely taken aside and be handed something as a loaner shooting heavier, long bullets. Showing up with a .375 H&H loaded with Barnes TSXs has always garnered some form of contentment, usually a satisfied smile and a strong head nod, even when the hunt is for 'just' plains game. It simply makes their job easier, as so many animals are wounded and it's their job to follow them up. Their preference for 'real' guns is well founded, and honest, not based in marketing or internet hyperbole as I continue to produce here.

Where something like a .338 or .375 shines and makes its mark is not in the wound, as everyone seems to look at. It's in what it will travel through. I'm of the opinion a wound with a .30-06, maybe even a .25-06, in soft tissue in light animals (deer and under) has a lot in common with my .375. Sometimes the higher velocity, small bullet makes a more impressive wound even. However, soon as you try to break shoulders, the hips, or have to take a running away follow up shot the shortcomings of light bullets become glaringly apparent. Where a .375 will take an elk from any angle with an accomplished hunter (not that you'd choose a Texas heart shot on the first round), a .25-06 is limited to a very marginal window of shot placements and angles. I don't make the presumption I'm so talented I don't need to worry about a nasty angle follow up.

I also like to break the shoulders on game and see that as the only truly reliable shot, on any continent. A .375 can do this with no issue, a .338 can on most game too. A .25-06, 7mm-08, .270, 6.5x55 etc etc cannot reliably. We have a strange fondness for ultra-lite, speedy chamberings in North America, right back to guys adopting the .220 Swift, .250-3000 Savage, and .270 Winchester for big game when they really should be going heavier. In Africa, a .375 H&H or 9.3x62 aren't viewed as big rifles, they're standard medium bores shot by boys learning to hunt, the .30-06 here really. I think it just stems from many of us no longer growing up hunters, with rifles in our hands. Recoil that is 100% manageable and mild is viewed as something to avoid (a .375 H&H is a pussycat) for fear of tampering with shot placement, instead of practicing an extra day. I wish I could tell PHs in Africa the small and fast fascination was a purely American thing, but it's embedded here too- I like to think slightly less though.

Sorry to ramble. So there, I like big guns for breaking bone, and the ability to do the job from any angle. My hunting's not a predetermined outcome situation, though I do like to hunt bigger and tougher stuff. I just found shooting a .375 was extremely comfortable, much more effective, and use it for everything now. I just bought a new No.1 .250 Savage, but to me, it's a coyote, gopher, and wolf rifle. If I get to do my Cougar hunt, it'll be a tough call between the .250 and the .375- but I bet I'll succumb to my own philosophy and reach past the .250 for the .375 as "It certainly can't hurt.", anything but the game that is. :) Happy hunting!

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Good post Ardent and great info and pics. Unless I do well on the next 649 a trip to Africa isn't on the agenda. However, my Daughter and Son In Law who live in AB were there for a hunt last year and from their info and pictures, it sounds like quite an adventure. Thanks again for your post:).
 
I agree about larger bores and heavier bullets for bigger game. I'm also a fan of anchoring game not that I can't track well just I like immediate kills. However if a game animal like a whitetail is for the freezer a shoulder shot may damage a lot of meat and a lung shot would make more sense. Here is where the 25s shine. If will punch thru hide and ribs and expand in deer sized game creating a greater wound channel and with its higher velocity sends a sharp shockwave that drops deer in their tracks. Many people I know take 338s and 300s after deer and use heavy constructed premium bullets designed for bigger game. They often wonder why or how the deer could run so far after being smacked with a magnum. Those bullets just zipped right thru doing little damage. The deer died but ran for more then 100 yards with internal bleeding. Many animals are lost this way. Its not just the caliber and location of the shot. Bullet construction plays a big part. Afterall its the bullet doing the damage not the hole in the muzzle. Deer are easy to kill and not bullet proof. I realize african animals are built tougher and can bite back. I love my 2506 but I'd leave it here in canada if going to africa. But for here except elk moose and grizzly Its the gun I'd reach for
 
I should add, my post isn't directed at anyone in particular, especially not Cinch and I don't look down on guys using light chamberings. It's just a question of what's better, but that doesn't mean the only option is the one seen as the collective best. I have found that on deer, small chamberings are probably 90% as effective as my .375, however universally the .375 has left the larger blood trail as it always, always exits and strongly.
 
Ardent - thanks for the response. You point out that African game is undeniably tougher - a feeling I suspect many who have hunted there will agree with. But we are here, not there. The vast majority of hunters pursue deer and black bear with the odd larger beast being thrown into the fray. These animals are really quite soft - wouldn't you agree?

Finn Aagaard was mighty fond of the 7x57 - and he had quite a bit of experience in Africa. IIRC he even shot Eland with that chambering. Now, I'll be the first to admit that the average fellow is not the same hunter/marksman as Aagaard, but that is a different topic. Correct me if I am wrong, but the 175gr load of those days left the muzzle at 2300fps.

It seems to me that game is getting harder and harder to kill these days. Is it just in our minds, or were our predecessors just less concerned about wounded/lost game?

Having said that, at the moment I don't own anything with a bore smaller than .284". :)
 
Hi Ardent,

Since our conversations regarding the Ruger Magnum rifle - and in particular the one I had planned to buy in .375 H&H I have acquired a Browning A-Bolt in this caliber. It's what I can afford right now, and has proven both very accurate and a delight to shoot. I've loaded up some 260 grain Nosler Partitions at near max velocity and have been delighted to find they shoot into an inch or less at 100 yards reliably.

So, I've been carrying nothing but this rifle/load combination this fall whether I've been hunting Whitetails or Moose/Elk. So far, the only thing I've had a chance to shoot with it this season is paper. :redface:

In any case, I too intend to see just very versatile the .375 H&H can be as an "all around" system.

That said - I want a 25-06 as a coyote rifle in the worst way!!!

Jeff.
 
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