Ellwood Epps customer service -- unhappy!

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Several years ago I bought a 40 S&W Glock aftermarket barrel that was advertised as "test fired only - less than 100 rounds". Well, the 100 rounds must have been gravel because the bore had scrapes & gouges all over it. I contacted the dealer and told them I was not happy and they said to send it back. I indicated I also wanted the return shipping paid for as the barrel was not as advertised. They refused. So I shipped it back at my cost (about $7) and then proceeded to tell everyone I knew to avoid the dealer. So for the sake of $7 they lost me as a customer plus everyone else I managed to steer away from them. Was it worth the $7 they saved by not paying my return shipping? I would think not.

If Epps really cared about customer service they would have taken the original gun back, given the OP a new gun and sent the original to the warranty centre. When they got it back from the warranty centre they could have sold it as a "factory refurb" or "second" or some similar deal, taken a smaller profit on the second gun and ended up with two happy customers (the OP plus the buyer of the refurb who also would have gotten a good deal).

But for the sake of keeping maybe $100 profit they have likely lost the OP as a customer plus goodness knows how many others as a result of this thread.

Classic case of penny wise-pound foolish.
 
So far my experience with EPPS was rather positive (except for a case of warranty repair from which my rifle came back scratched and I had to pay for shipping one way). However after reading this thread I will think twice before placing any more orders with them...and I was just about to order 870 Police there :cool: Thanks for sharing.
 
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Harrier .45 said:
For clarification:

All firearms purchased as new items carry a manufacturer's warranty that must be handled by the authorized repair depot. Guns, unlike cell phones, toaster ovens, vacuum cleaners, and the like, are registered to the individual owner. Once a firearm has been registered to one person, the warranty is not transferrable to another buyer unless the distributor permits the firearm to be returned for inspection, and it is found to be un-repairable.

While we most definitely agree with and understand your frustration in this matter, buyers must understand that part of our agreements in place with distributors and manufacturers is that warrantied items must be returned to the authorized depot for assessment. It is then the distributor who determines whether the firearm should be repaired or replaced, and whether they will send the original item back to the manufacturer as a defective product.

We have dealt with these issues on many occasions. As a customer myself, I would certainly be concerned if a defective item could not be repaired or exchanged, but perhaps if you had asked the salesperson with whom you dealt to explain the situation you might have had a better understanding of the problem. We cannot simply exchange new firearms. It is just not that simple. Any firearms dealer will confirm this with regard to new guns only. With used guns, we do offer a 30-day no-questions-asked return policy for defects or problems, but that warranty is offered through our store, and not from the manufacturer.

To the OP: Please contact Kevin at info@ellwoodepps.com, and we will discuss this matter. We can take the gun back into our store and negotiate the shipping to and from Wortner's, which is the authorized S&W warranty depot. If Wortner's and S&W agree that the firearm is beyond repair, we can then provide you with a new model. Otherwise, we will have your firearm repaired as quickly as Wortner's is able.

The suggestions that Ellwood Epps has become 'lazy' or 'does not care about their customers' could not be farther from the truth! We routinely do all that we can -- and in many cases, more than we are permitted to do by our distributors -- to correct issues such as this. I believe you will find many postings on GunNutz confirming the lengths we routinely go to in order to satisfy our customers as we are able.

Of course there will always be those individual who are unsatisfied no matter what efforts we make, but this particular issue is one that has been discussed on many occasions, and is not unique to the firearms industry. Try to exchange a new automobile because of a manufacturer's defect, or try to return opened software with a defect. These are the procedures that the manufacturers and distributors have outlined for retailers such as ourselves, and it is these guidelines that we must follow if we are to continue to carry the products from these companies.
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With all the respect I ever HAD for your store: This reply is a whole train load full of crap!

This kind of selfish policies are simply unethical, borderline fraudulent!

I was blind, now I see...

Good to know, will not do business with a shady shop like yours again!

EVER

and all my shooting buddies will have to hear about your policies...
 
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Harrier .45 said:
We cannot simply exchange new firearms[/U][/I]. It is just not that simple. Any firearms dealer will confirm this with regard to new guns only.
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I don't know about your policy and agreements with the distributors, but Frontier Firearms exchanged my new pistol that I bought from them for a new and good working one, once I found that the gun was defective. Strange really...or maybe not?
 
Harrier .45 said:
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We cannot simply exchange new firearms. It is just not that simple.
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Two years ago I bought one of the Lipsys Ruger 77's in 250 Sav. from Clay at Prophet River. When it got to me, it had a substandard stock, with a big knot hole that had been filled with some kind of filler at the factory.

When I called Clay up about it, his response was "send it back, I'll have a new one out to you right away"

So yes, it seems that it really is just that simple.
 
Yep, I have a warranty claim right now with a dealer who IS paying shipping BOTH ways and has stated if it is not a quick fix, it will be replaced with a new one...

Wow, epps would have been far better off not replying at all. Made it worse in fact...
TWKTWKTWKTWK
 
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polaris said:
With all the respect I ever HAD for your store: This reply is a whole train load full of crap!

This kind of selfish policies are simply unethical, borderline fraudulent!

I was blind, now I see...

Good to know, will not do business with a shady shop like yours again!

EVER

and all my shooting buddies will have to hear about your policies...
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I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion. Hiding behind crappy self-appointed policies is the base of a scamming scheme. Shameful I have to say, very shameful . Especially for a shop that's been in business for so long.:(
 
GUNS SELL THEMSELVES BUT THE CUSTOMER SERVICE DICTATES WHETHER WE COME BACK OR NOT. No sense trying to argue by posting "Store Policy" because the argument was lost long ago. It's just best to apologize for the oversight and make it right before this train wreck goes over the cliff.
Please don't live up to the nickname many people call "The Hillbillys on Hwy 11"
 
Harrier .45 said:
Now, I know that this will open yet another can of worms, and some of you will jump all over this reply as soon as it is posted, but here it is anyway, again, for clarification:

Scianna: the 'negotiation' part of shipping will be conducted with the OP, not with you, or another jump-in who wishes to exert their little tidbit of pressure on this matter. To be frank, warranties work like this: the customer ships the product to the warranty depot at their cost. The depot then absorbs the shipping cost to return the product once the repair is completed. Look into it. This is standard practice for ANY warranty repair product.

As for those "opposite statements" you claim to have read from me in some previous post, the statements made herein have always been our policy for used firearms only. That is 30 days return for defective products. Like any business, we do not accept returns on an item simply because you did not like the look or the colour of it once you got the product home. "No questions asked" refers to function or fault of the item purchased, not buyer's remorse.

With regard to registration, once a firearm is listed as sold and registered to an individual, it is recorded as a sold/registered/used item with the government. This same record follows the firearm forever more, much like the trail of ownership on a vehicle. Once the registration has been approved, the firearm is no longer available to be listed as a New firearm, and thus, as noted, the warranty cannot be transferred to a secondary buyer. Again, only the distributor or the manufacturer can authorize the return of an item to their warehouse, and the final decision so to whether to repair or replace that item with a new model, under the current warranty agreement.

If some other company has made the decision to exchange a firearm on their own, that is their prerogative. We are uncertain how they negotiate the reinstatement of a warranty on an item that has already been sold, without prior consent from the distributor or manufacturer. Ellwood Epps has agreements in place with distributors that requires certain steps to be followed in the case of warrantied items. Those steps have been clearly outlined.

To those of you who claim that we should blindly refund this customer's money or return the firearm from him, perhaps we should reserve judgement until we find out what the root cause of the problem he has experienced truly is. Only then can such a decision be made.

I cannot speak for whomever it was the OP originally spoke to when he called our store to discuss this matter. I can only offer my assistance to determine the best course of action that can be taken from here to find a suitable solution for all parties involved. If that is not a good enough effort or response for some of you, so be it. It is the OP we are dealing with here, not the masses and their opinions or criticisms over this single matter.

Again, I invite the OP to contact me directly so that we can discuss this matter outside of the public forum, and attempt to find a common ground that will resolve the issue.
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If you would have any authority at Epps, you could actually offer the free shipping and exchange.
 
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They should know if they are selling defective gear shoudnt they? How hard is it to do a quick check of a firearm to see if it appears to be in good working order?
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Interesting story....

I started in the business just carrying gear, and have recently expanded into firearm and accessories for them.

I read a lot of the complaints and complements on this forum and try very hard to learn from them.

The topic you bring up has been brought up many times before, about dealers checking to make sure that what they were shipping out, was in good working order, or not broken etc.

So, seeing these complaints I figured a good thing to do would be to check everything I shipped out to make sure it was ok.

Soon after I started doing that I got complaints from some clients that their product package was open, so it must have been used, or been a demo item. They didn't like my explanation about "giving it a once over" and demanded an exchange, refund or discount.

I ate a few costs.

So while one person might complain about something you do, another might complement you for doing it.

Unfortunately when shipping products, you don't know which is which.
 
Farmboy said:
Interesting story....

I started in the business just carrying gear, and have recently expanded into firearm and accessories for them.

I read a lot of the complaints and complements on this forum and try very hard to learn from them.

The topic you bring up has been brought up many times before, about dealers checking to make sure that what they were shipping out, was in good working order, or not broken etc.

So, seeing these complaints I figured a good thing to do would be to check everything I shipped out to make sure it was ok.

Soon after I started doing that I got complaints from some clients that their product package was open, so it must have been used, or been a demo item. They didn't like my explanation about "giving it a once over" and demanded an exchange, refund or discount.

I ate a few costs.

So while one person might complain about something you do, another might complement you for doing it.

Unfortunately when shipping products, you don't know which is which.
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I can understand that for say a boresnake thats sealed in plastic. Firearms on the other hand are not, and that is what i was referring too. It doesnt take much to give a firearm a once over before you ship it to a buyer.
 
Farmboy said:
Interesting story....

I started in the business just carrying gear, and have recently expanded into firearm and accessories for them.

I read a lot of the complaints and complements on this forum and try very hard to learn from them.

The topic you bring up has been brought up many times before, about dealers checking to make sure that what they were shipping out, was in good working order, or not broken etc.

So, seeing these complaints I figured a good thing to do would be to check everything I shipped out to make sure it was ok.

Soon after I started doing that I got complaints from some clients that their product package was open, so it must have been used, or been a demo item. They didn't like my explanation about "giving it a once over" and demanded an exchange, refund or discount.

I ate a few costs.

So while one person might complain about something you do, another might complement you for doing it.

Unfortunately when shipping products, you don't know which is which.
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You may always ask a client about his preference before shipping and if he's not happy with the product being checked by You, make it clear that he will have to cover the shipping costs if anything will go wrong.
 
I can understand that for say a boresnake thats sealed in plastic. Firearms on the other hand are not, and that is what i was referring too. It doesnt take much to give a firearm a once over before you ship it to a buyer.
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Boresnakes you can look through the plastic.

What you're refering to, is what I still had problems with. You may think it's the greatest service in the world, the other guy doesn't.

Also giving a firearm a once over, doesn't tell you if it actually functions or not, it just pisses of those who expect a NIB firearm to show up NIB.
 
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