Ellwood Epps customer service -- unhappy!

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Boresnakes you can look through the plastic.

What you're refering to, is what I still had problems with. You may think it's the greatest service in the world, the other guy doesn't.

Also giving a firearm a once over, doesn't tell you if it actually functions or not, it just pisses of those who expect a NIB firearm to show up NIB.

How the hell would they even know, Your not taking the firearm and throwing it out of an airplane!

Just give it a quick once over like you would with your own firearms, thats not going to damage a firearm. I have had all kinds of guns sent to me, they are not vacuum packed, they come in a plastic case most time that you can easily open up and give a general once over.

If your in a store about to buy a gun, what would you do before you bought it? That check is the same check you should do before sending one out to a buyer. Im not talking live firing it, just a simple check to make sure things are wear they are suppose to be and nothing is damaged or falling off.

Im sorry that seems like a simple thing to do.
 
Im sorry that seems like a simple thing to do.

Seems like it could be ;)

If your in a store about to buy a gun, what would you do before you bought it? That check is the same check you should do before sending one out to a buyer.

There is a difference between someone watching you open the box for the first time in the store, and having it delivered with the tape/seal cut.


Anyway, both Epps and the OP need to rag on the distributor/manufacturer and get the shipping costs covered for the OP.
 
Seems like it could be ;)



There is a difference between someone watching you open the box for the first time in the store, and having it delivered with the tape/seal cut.



Your not getting what im saying, you can cut tape, open the box have a peek, put it back and re-tape it. I have yet to have a handgun show up that was sealed. All guns for the most part are test fired at the factory, they are never untouched.

If its that big a problem in your business then just ask the customer if you can open the package to check over the gun to make sure it wasn't damaged when it was shipped to you. I figured you would do that anyhow, how else do you know if you got your moneys worth from the manufacturer or distributor?
 
Your not getting what im saying, you can cut tape, open the box have a peek, put it back and re-tape it.

Oh, I got what you said. You may not have realized that taping over cut tape, or cut sticky tabs etc. is still visible, and a 2" scotch tape over a .5" circular sticky tab kinda stands out.

I figured you would do that anyhow, how else do you know if you got your moneys worth from the manufacturer or distributor?

I deal with Knights Armament, Daniel Defense, Aimpoint, Blue Force Gear and others directly, and it's not my moneys worth, it's my clients.

Any more questions?
 
Oh, I got what you said. You may not have realized that taping over cut tape, or cut sticky tabs etc. is still visible, and a 2" scotch tape over a .5" circular sticky tab kinda stands out.



I deal with Knights Armament, Daniel Defense, Aimpoint, Blue Force Gear and others directly, and it's not my moneys worth, it's my clients.

Any more questions?

Sure, lets look at those dealers that have lots of guns on display, like P&D Enterprises for example. Those guns are out of the box, ya think they are gonna sell them at half price just because they cut the tape to put them on display? Please... Its unprofessional for any dealer not to check their firearms inventory to make sure they are undamaged etc...
 
When I sent the photos of my BNIB SIG-226 and concerns with the wear marks on the slide to the seller and asked what had happened to this Pistol,they said that SIG and they may have test fired it,why Questar would test fire it I dont know, but even more reason they should have noticed the damage even if they hadnt caused it

So apparently at least one retailer may not only open and inspect the Pistols,they do take them out to photograph them,but they even may test fire them
 
When I sent the photos of my BNIB SIG-226 and concerns with the wear marks on the slide to the seller and asked what had happened to this Pistol,they said that SIG and they may have test fired it,why Questar would test fire it I dont know, but even more reason they should have noticed the damage even if they hadnt caused it

So apparently at least one retailer may not only open and inspect the Pistols,they do take them out to photograph them,but they even may test fire them

What im referring too has nothing to do with live firing the firearm, its a simple look to make sure there is no damage before shipment. How hard is that?
 
I too purchased a NIB firearm from Epps & was less than happy with the purchase. The bore was FILTHY!! Not like just a couple of test shots were fired, but more like after a full session at the range! The bolt face showed lots of carbon fouling. I discussed the issue with Epps & they declared that it was a new unused firearm. Here is Epps direct quote from their email to me:

"By US regulations, all manufacturers must test fire a minimum of 40 rounds through every firearm before shipping. Most manufacturers do not clean their barrels after they have been test fired as A) they do not have the manpower or the time, and B) the residue left behind is proof that the gun has been fired. Smith & Wesson revolvers come in with the cylinder faces completely black and uncleaned. Your gun is new, and should not exhibit any problems beyond the residue left in the bore after test firing at the factory."

I decided that I wouldn't get any further with this issue from Epps, & decided to keep the firearm. I have decided to NOT purchase any NEW firearms online again. If I had been able to handle & look at this NEW firearm before buying it, I would have asked to see another one! It was NOT a pleasant buying experience for me.

George
 
I recall couple month back a member here who is also epps employee bought a gun from us and found that slide is catching brass and gun miss feeds. He immediately asked us for exchange…:D

And......?

And of course we did...

Good to hear.....you are to be commended. You probably would have eventually fixed my gun eventually as well. I just wasn't willing to wait 6-10 months.

LOL, I could fix your gun much faster, you just never bought any from me...:D

I was trying to tell the irony, while OP was not offered help from epps, epps employee got his personal purchased gun from the other dealer exchanged by that dealer without any delay. If I have to explain, the irony is in that the same employee (I hope it wasn't him) may have told to OP that they won't exchange...
 
I never said it had anything to do with live firing it,I was responding to someone saying as a seller they couldnt open it up and do a quick check,when another seller tells me they may test fire it, for some unknown reason,but still they send out damaged product

So whether they dont look at it ,they take it out and do a visual or take it out and fire it,if they dont have the integrity to stand behind what they sell,its not going to matter
 
I never said it had anything to do with live firing it,I was responding to someone saying as a seller they couldnt open it up and do a quick check,when another seller tells me they may test fire it, for some unknown reason,but still they send out damaged product

So whether they dont look at it ,they take it out and do a visual or take it out and fire it,if they dont have the integrity to stand behind what they sell,its not going to matter

I don't disagree with that, its that same integrity that would make them want to check their inventory for damage before sending it off to a customer. It would have stopped the OP's problem in its tracks as they would have discovered the same problem and sent him a new gun instead, at least one would hope.
 
Well, I just received my brand new S&W 22A semi auto. Upon receiving it, I found it to be defective in that it would not #### (took it to a local smith who confirmed that it indeed would not work. I called Epps and informed them of the problem. They told me to ship it to the warranty depot in Chat-ham ON. I asked if I could return it to them and was told yes and they would send it to the depot for repair -- would not exchange. On the initial purchase, I was charged $22.39 for freight -- now I'll have to pay another $22.00 to ship to warranty and perhaps another $22.00 for it to come back to me when repaired. Customer Service -- sympathy non! :mad:

Canada Ammo did the exact same thing to me with my busted 858. Came right out of the box with the front sight cranked completely to the left, and then it was failing to feed about 1 in 10 rounds. I was told to ship it to Wolverine because "That's what they were going to do" so I ended up paying both ways.

My free targets never came either lol and the dog barking constantly in the background when I called was a real nice touch
 
It would have stopped the OP's problem in its tracks as they would have discovered the same problem and sent him a new gun instead, at least one would hope.

If you can tell if a firearm works or not just by opening the box and looking at it, please send me your resume and what wage you want to make. I assume you can figure out the exact issue as well.

I mean, even if it take an extra minute or so to wave your hand over the firearm, so be it, but you don't get extra for that. :p
 
If you can tell if a firearm works or not just by opening the box and looking at it, please send me your resume and what wage you want to make. I assume you can figure out the exact issue as well.

I mean, even if it take an extra minute or so to wave your hand over the firearm, so be it, but you don't get extra for that. :p


I was refering to the ops case, in which his firearm would not ####, if you can't determine that by a quick inspection of a firearm then how do you stay in business?

As well im still waiting for the answer to my previous question, or are you at a loss for words? Running in here to defend Epps are you? Are you saying its not reasonable to expect a dealer to check a firearm before shipping it to a customer to ensure there is no damage or deficiencies? Im talking obvious stuff, sure there can still be stuff wrong when a customer fires his gun and something breaks , im not asking for clairvoyance just common sense which seems to elude you.

I mean im so sorry if i fell off a cliff expecting a dealer to do such a thing.:eek:
 
For clarification:

All firearms purchased as new items carry a manufacturer's warranty that must be handled by the authorized repair depot. Guns, unlike cell phones, toaster ovens, vacuum cleaners, and the like, are registered to the individual owner. Once a firearm has been registered to one person, the warranty is not transferrable to another buyer unless the distributor permits the firearm to be returned for inspection, and it is found to be un-repairable.

While we most definitely agree with and understand your frustration in this matter, buyers must understand that part of our agreements in place with distributors and manufacturers is that warrantied items must be returned to the authorized depot for assessment. It is then the distributor who determines whether the firearm should be repaired or replaced, and whether they will send the original item back to the manufacturer as a defective product.

We have dealt with these issues on many occasions. As a customer myself, I would certainly be concerned if a defective item could not be repaired or exchanged, but perhaps if you had asked the salesperson with whom you dealt to explain the situation you might have had a better understanding of the problem. We cannot simply exchange new firearms. It is just not that simple. Any firearms dealer will confirm this with regard to new guns only. With used guns, we do offer a 30-day no-questions-asked return policy for defects or problems, but that warranty is offered through our store, and not from the manufacturer.

To the OP: Please contact Kevin at info@ellwoodepps.com, and we will discuss this matter. We can take the gun back into our store and negotiate the shipping to and from Wortner's, which is the authorized S&W warranty depot. If Wortner's and S&W agree that the firearm is beyond repair, we can then provide you with a new model. Otherwise, we will have your firearm repaired as quickly as Wortner's is able.

The suggestions that Ellwood Epps has become 'lazy' or 'does not care about their customers' could not be farther from the truth! We routinely do all that we can -- and in many cases, more than we are permitted to do by our distributors -- to correct issues such as this. I believe you will find many postings on GunNutz confirming the lengths we routinely go to in order to satisfy our customers as we are able.

Of course there will always be those individual who are unsatisfied no matter what efforts we make, but this particular issue is one that has been discussed on many occasions, and is not unique to the firearms industry. Try to exchange a new automobile because of a manufacturer's defect, or try to return opened software with a defect. These are the procedures that the manufacturers and distributors have outlined for retailers such as ourselves, and it is these guidelines that we must follow if we are to continue to carry the products from these companies.

Actually in alot of US states this is not true. Many have Ralph Nader type lemon laws on the law books. Auto manufacturers with new cars have 30 days to fix a problem and failure to do so in many states can result in the manufacturer being forced to buy back the car at full sale price. We dont have any such warranty type laws in Canada as outlined under Magnusson Moss act. If we did many manufacturers wouldnt pull the bulls**t they do in Canada as they know there would be repercussions. Often times you have items that are recalled in the US but in Canada they are clearly defective and there is no recourse for the consumer.

I have bought many guns from your shop. I had a brand new Beretta Ultralight that was damaged during shipping. Your shop guy gave me abit of attitude that he would get it fixed. The stock was shattered upon arrival. I said no...f**k no..

You got involved (Wes) and made it right. I ended up getting a Citori from you which you price matched to the lowest listed price in Canada. Then you authorized it and I even got some free stuff and a discounted hard case. Since then I have bought more guns off you. I am a happy customer. I tell people to shop at your store. If you had of screwed me around, I wouldve sued you in small claims! But you did right, so it all worked out well. :Dw:h:
 
I think we are getting way off track here guys. It doesn't matter what they could have done or what they should have done before they shipped the gun to the customer it only matters what they did about a problem that one of there customers had after he purchased a gun from them. It appears that they didn't care at all about it.

I would also say that we can all surmise that they now realize they screwed up or they would not have posted that BS explanation that everyone saw right through.

I would think if they have any brains at all they will come in with an apology to the OP and tell everyone they screwed up and won't let it happen again. That is of course if they have any brains and actually care about there customers.

I guess we will all have to wait and see.

Graydog
 
Interesting story....

I started in the business just carrying gear, and have recently expanded into firearm and accessories for them.

I read a lot of the complaints and complements on this forum and try very hard to learn from them.

The topic you bring up has been brought up many times before, about dealers checking to make sure that what they were shipping out, was in good working order, or not broken etc.

So, seeing these complaints I figured a good thing to do would be to check everything I shipped out to make sure it was ok.

Soon after I started doing that I got complaints from some clients that their product package was open, so it must have been used, or been a demo item. They didn't like my explanation about "giving it a once over" and demanded an exchange, refund or discount.

I ate a few costs.

So while one person might complain about something you do, another might complement you for doing it.

Unfortunately when shipping products, you don't know which is which.

True, some people are overly anal. I would tell them before shipping that you personally are going to open the box to ensure the product is sound and complete before you ship it. If they don't want you to open it then they take their chances.
offer it as a free service not a requirement.
 
True, some people are overly anal. I would tell them before shipping that you personally are going to open the box to ensure the product is sound and complete before you ship it. If they don't want you to open it then they take their chances.
offer it as a free service not a requirement.

Seems simple doesn't it.
 
I was refering to the ops case, in which his firearm would not ####, if you can't determine that by a quick inspection of a firearm then how do you stay in business?

Because my clients don't expect me to #### their SR-25, SR-15 or MK18 before I ship it to them.

They expect me to provide them with quality product, at a good price in a reasonable amount of time, and fix any issues they might have to their satisfaction.

As well im still waiting for the answer to my previous question, or are you at a loss for words?

Which question?

Running in here to defend Epps are you?

Actually if you go back and read what I wrote you'll notice I said that Epps should be harassing the distributor or manufacturer to cover the shipping charges.

Are you saying its not reasonable to expect a dealer to check a firearm before shipping it to a customer to ensure there is no damage?

Depends what the dealer is selling, and how it's listed.

I mean, checking a crate of SKS's when you purchased 500, sure. Some dealers/distributor do it to protect themselves.

As I already mentioned though, opening an ADM mount, a DD rail, a Remington 700P just ticks of clients who want there item NIB.
 
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