on the other hand, i cull mine by checking the entire round with a digital scale- i know some of you are scoffing, but this works- get an established weight range for your brass, then do the same for your bullets- do the brass before decapping so you don't have to figure in the weight of your primer- live or dead, primers weigh roughly the same- if you know what your brass weight is, add your bullet weight, and what's left over will be your powder charge weight-double charges and squibs show up pretty quick, as do "heavy " charges-just be aware that EVERY manufacturer has different weights of brass- with winchester being the lightest and federal being the heaviest, with r-p being the middle
Little rant about cheap reloading gear....
- Thread starter .Ben
- Start date
If you're too cheap to buy quality equipment...maybe reloading is not a good solution for you
people don't buy Lee because of the quality...
I'll go along with that. I had exactly the same measures except that the Lyman is now with one of my sons. For the last number of years I haven't used the RCBS at all for stick powders and rarely for ball or short cut.
Start with a full hopper and top it up before it gets down too much and keep your stroke smooth and consistent (same with all measures) and the Lee is a wonderful piece of work.
- Location
- SW Ontario
Anybody ever get tired of the "Lee vs. everything else" debate? Yes Lee equipment is cheap. But you know what? With a kid in university and another heading that way, car repairs, mortgage, utilities etc. etc. my cash flow is pretty tight. So I bought a Lee 50th Anniversary kit and an electronic Lee scale to reload for my 9mm and it works great. Slow yes. But consistent and gets it done. I owned four Harleys over the years and learned the chrome don't get you home. My first 550 Kawasaki got the job done too. Whoever can afford higher quality stuff more power to you, but spare us your sanctimonius musings about the equipment we lowly Lee owners use.
The OPs results were way off the normal +/- dispensed by any brand powder measure, including the Lee PPM. Perhaps this one slipped through QC. Or perhaps you do not understand how to set up/adjust the tool, or the behaviour of the materials it dispenses.
A reloader who pays attention soon notices that every single component comes with its own +/-. So does factory ammo, factory chambers, factory barrels. Some accept this, some can't.
If the load variation detected stays within a narrow range and your recipe is not at the ragged edge of low or high pressure, there is no safety problem. Many have figured out how to get consistent safe results from Lee's PPM. Some things take a bit of thought and finesse, not a bigger hammer or bigger wallet.
A reloader who pays attention soon notices that every single component comes with its own +/-. So does factory ammo, factory chambers, factory barrels. Some accept this, some can't.
If the load variation detected stays within a narrow range and your recipe is not at the ragged edge of low or high pressure, there is no safety problem. Many have figured out how to get consistent safe results from Lee's PPM. Some things take a bit of thought and finesse, not a bigger hammer or bigger wallet.
In life you get what you pay for, but only most of the time
Please don't rant about cheap reloading equipment as I might start a REAL RANT about "high quality" reloading equipment which is badly designed and that I paid top dollar for
In life you get what you pay for, but only most of the time
Alex
Please don't rant about cheap reloading equipment as I might start a REAL RANT about "high quality" reloading equipment which is badly designed and that I paid top dollar for
In life you get what you pay for, but only most of the time
Alex
mmcintyre1220
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Tillsonburg, Ontario
I started loading pistol cartridges a bit ago. My setup is a lee classic turret press with the auto disk pro powder measure. I have 0 complaints with it. I check every 20 or so rounds now opposed to every 5 when I first started. It is very consistent within .1 +/-. The pro auto disk has a built in powder baffle which from loading shotshell for 8 years I have learned if you want consistency you want a baffle. With a baffle you do not need to keep the hopper full. Lee is cheap but I have no complaints with it so far. I buy what gets the job done right, and lee seems to be doing just that.
TightGroup
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Saint-Louis-de-Kent, NB
The rant IMHO has nothing to do with equipment but rather a highlight of a faulty procedure. A nice way to check power is to measure 10 loads together, If your looking for a 3.8 gr then 10 loads should give you 37.5 ~ 39.2 giving you a greater accuracy..
I have to say though loading Titegroup I have noticed that once you fill up , check the powder loads, it will tend to fluctuate after loading a few rounds, it is as if the powder settles in the hopper ( though I have a Dillon, it might apply for a Lee as well)
Gear is gear and it cannot be better than the operator..
I remember my father's hand loader : Lachmiller I believe made most likely in the 50's and he ran this press till mid 90's not one issue that I can recall. But the Ol' man was meticulous and he documented everything ..
I have to say though loading Titegroup I have noticed that once you fill up , check the powder loads, it will tend to fluctuate after loading a few rounds, it is as if the powder settles in the hopper ( though I have a Dillon, it might apply for a Lee as well)
Gear is gear and it cannot be better than the operator..
I remember my father's hand loader : Lachmiller I believe made most likely in the 50's and he ran this press till mid 90's not one issue that I can recall. But the Ol' man was meticulous and he documented everything ..
Lee stuff is certainly cheap. Most of it works and some works extremly well. The Lee collet dies being my favourite. I reload consistant ammo up to 300 wm on my Challenger press.
I think the Harley analogy is a good one. Harleys cost a lot more than Japanese. But anyone with real world biking experience knows that Harleys don't stop, go or handle and their engines are antiquated farming machinery. However once these guys are looking at themselves in the mirror in their bandanas and leather fingerless gloves
its hard to admit that something costing less could be as good or better.Maybe all the Lee haters wear bandanas and leather finger gloves.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
I don't know what a Basic LEE powder measure is.
There is the Perfect Powder Measure, the Auto Disk and the Pro Auto Disk.
I have used/still use these and have no problem with charge consistency with pistol powders and Varget in the case of the PPM. IMO, reloading is a skill that is learned and equipment familiarity is part of the learning process.
Manufacturers of all reloading gear design and test their products extensively.
If anybody here cannot get their equipment to work the first time, they should look at themselves and see what they are doing wrong. The last thing they should condemn is their equipment. Know and understand how your equipment works. Even the lowly and cheap Lee presses can be made to work right if the operator took the time to study them. Otherwise, Lee would not be selling truckloads for the last 30 yrs or so.
Patience is a valuable virtue particularly with reloading. If one is not patient, he should think about buying factory ammo instead. Sooner or later, an impatient person will make a dangerous mistake.
There is the Perfect Powder Measure, the Auto Disk and the Pro Auto Disk.
I have used/still use these and have no problem with charge consistency with pistol powders and Varget in the case of the PPM. IMO, reloading is a skill that is learned and equipment familiarity is part of the learning process.
Manufacturers of all reloading gear design and test their products extensively.
If anybody here cannot get their equipment to work the first time, they should look at themselves and see what they are doing wrong. The last thing they should condemn is their equipment. Know and understand how your equipment works. Even the lowly and cheap Lee presses can be made to work right if the operator took the time to study them. Otherwise, Lee would not be selling truckloads for the last 30 yrs or so.
Patience is a valuable virtue particularly with reloading. If one is not patient, he should think about buying factory ammo instead. Sooner or later, an impatient person will make a dangerous mistake.
not to mention the techs at lee are like an e-mail or phone call away-
my loadmaster was a "floor model" which meant that everybody and his dog had a go at it before i got it- it took a few months of e-mails back and forth , but now it works fine- between watching the videos and tech help, we got it working- just don't be expecting an answer within hours as their WORKING hours may be different than yours
my loadmaster was a "floor model" which meant that everybody and his dog had a go at it before i got it- it took a few months of e-mails back and forth , but now it works fine- between watching the videos and tech help, we got it working- just don't be expecting an answer within hours as their WORKING hours may be different than yours
What I do (and remember every one has their own habits) is place 10 bullets right side up on the left side of the press (I have a Dillon 550B) cycle 10 rounds thru, check the finished cartridges and place them in a tray. Then I go to the other side and pull a case out of the press and check it's weight. Then I setup another 10 bullets right side up near the press. This reminds me to check a charge every 10 rounds.
Also put fill up the powder hopper everytime I have to fill the primer hopper. (ie every 100 rounds) This ensures that the powder measure has (approx) the same weight in it as it throws a charge. Also along this vein, when I am adjusting the powder bar for the amount of grains I'm going to throw, I fill the powder hopper, so that as I'm using it the charges will get lighter rather than heavier. Again I'm prolly being anal on this point cuz I've never had a variance of more than +/- .1gr.
*note* even after all this I do have screwups but by stopping every 10 rounds it limits the damage to 10...
Best advice ever -
I am a bit worried... Somebody with a problem using Lee equipment and no posting from BenH telling us what junk it is? Ben, you okay?? We are all sure you opinion hasnt changed so maybe you are away from the website for a few days...
dB
dB
I have had the powder measure change the set point once during operation since the adjustment ring was not tight. Also, depending on the powder, the throw will change according to the level of powder in the thrower. I weigh the first 5 in a row, then every 5th for about 20 rounds after that, and then settle in at every 10 round. If the last round is way off then all you have to due is pull and weigh the last 10 rounds.
Completely depends on your comfort zone with your equipment and how quickly your bullet puller works.
Completely depends on your comfort zone with your equipment and how quickly your bullet puller works.
I am a bit worried... Somebody with a problem using Lee equipment and no posting from BenH telling us what junk it is? Ben, you okay?? We are all sure you opinion hasnt changed so maybe you are away from the website for a few days...
dB
Yep, hopefully he will turn up and tell us about Forster Coax
(I'd secretly like a Coax myself).Ben, has the one of the best sense of humours on CGN. His wit is dry and at times little caustic. It reminds me of having pints back home with the lads.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
Can't wait for his words of wisdom and all too caustic humour, if you can even call it humour
. He has an extreme point of view with regard to a particular brand and the other extreme with regard to another. Still, his comments are welcome, if only to extend the life of a thread. No hard feelings, BH. Just having a little fun. Absolute truth is, if not for his well known, albeit unreasonable disdain for Brand Red, BH is quite alright. His posts on other topics do make perfect sense.
Hotwheels81
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- South of GP
I found with the PPM you have to run it like your a machine, powder settles and charges become more dense the harder you hit the stopper at the top of the stroke.... Like filling a bag of popcorn... If you shake the bag more fits in...
Same thing with a progressive, if your bench has a wiggle your charges will not stay consistent because the powder density will change with every good bump.
Same thing with a progressive, if your bench has a wiggle your charges will not stay consistent because the powder density will change with every good bump.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
This is exactly what is meant by a person knowing his machine.
Hotwheels81
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- South of GP
That little fact should be clearly explained in every owners manual!!
But manufacturers are scared to put anything in there manuals that cast doubt on there products, they hint at solutions to problems that they won't admit to directly that way they can point fingers when things go wrong... Oh you dident follow the instructions! Not our problem.
EDIT: I should mention that my issue with the PPM was the cheesy stand they supply with it... The damn thing vibrates way too much when you hit the top stopper... With a solid mount and baffle I would put it toe to toe with about any other thrower out there.
