Should I upgrade from a Norinco CQ-A?

What range are you planning on shooting your AR15? If you're only doing sub 200m, then I wouldn't worry about free floating your barrel. Just get something that fits with the Norinco and doesn't break your bank. Then shoot the crap out of your CQA. Those Norcs are meant to be shot, they're not safe queens like some of the expensive American AR15s.

If you are planning on shooting longer than 200m, then you should probably consider getting a different manufacture, keep your eyes peeled on the EE for a 20" Colt or Stag, they're milspec and fairly common.
 
cancer said:
What range are you planning on shooting your AR15? If you're only doing sub 200m, then I wouldn't worry about free floating your barrel. Just get something that fits with the Norinco and doesn't break your bank. Then shoot the crap out of your CQA. Those Norcs are meant to be shot, they're not safe queens like some of the expensive American AR15s.

If you are planning on shooting longer than 200m, then you should probably consider getting a different manufacture, keep your eyes peeled on the EE for a 20" Colt or Stag, they're milspec and fairly common.
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I had no issues that I could relate to the rifle when shooting out to 400 with my Norc. The nut behind the trigger is another topic.
 
Bolivar said:
I had no issues that I could relate to the rifle when shooting out to 400 with my Norc. The nut behind the trigger is another topic.
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Oh, I know.. my AR15 isn't free-floated either and I can keep shooting bulls all day with it out to 600 m as well, but if the OP wants to use a foregrip, that's a different story.
 
Bolivar said:
Claven

An experience with fitting the DD omega on the Norc with the standard handguard cap. I am assuming that since the rail is free float the won't touch the cap anyway so it should not be a problem?
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That's right. If he installs a FF, then you toss the cap anyhow. I was referring to fitting an MOE rail, which is areally common upgrade for the Norinco.

But a Norinco will accept a FF rail as well as any other AR - the hardest part is gettign the FSB off, but that's not a Norinco-specific issue.
 
OP

Based on how often you say you are going to the range, I would say no don't bother upgrading. However, if it is bugging you....go for it. If you don't like a rifle you have, regardless of reason, you are not going to enjoy shooting it so you might as well not have it. If having a NA made AR is what you want....go for it. It is a hobby after all.

I personally thing the right answer to your original question is what ever you decide. You can't really go wrong.
 
TDC said:
Your situation is a personal choice. If you really want the quad rail and want a rifle that works, indefinitely. Save your coin and buy a brand name AR. That being said, you could purchase a new upper that is in spec and save some coin that way. I would personally look into NEA AR15 rifles. Canadian made and reasonably(very reasonably) priced. Shoot the Norc until you save enough for the new one, or sell the Norc to help fund the new one. that's a choice only you can make. Can you live without a rifle for a while?

TDC
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Claven2 said:
OK, first let me say that I am not a fan of the Norinco AR's. I know a TON of people will soon pile on and tell me how wonderful their Norincos are, and that's great for them, but please hold fire for a moment until I finish.

What I dislike about Norinco AR's has nothing to do with their being Chinese, nor their sometimes questionable visual appearance. None of that matters if the rifle is reliable and shoot to point of aim. What I have issue with is their seeming lower than "industry standard" QA/QC record. When you get a good Norinco, it is certainly good enough as a "go to" rifle. The guys who get these rifles are the ones who always flag wave about them. But for every 4 or 5 guys who are happy with their rifle, I see one who has issues.

By issues, I mean poor fit of upper to lower with a big gap and lots of wiggle, or casting flaws on the bolt stop, or in one case a gas key that was not through-drilled (i.e. single shot AR). The list goes on.

Now that being said, if your Norinco has proven itself functional and reliable, there is NO REASON to buy another rifle. Unless you want to take it to the states, and I assume you don't. Ar's are modular and the Norinco is fairly good for taking most aftermarket parts.

What I do recommend is that Norinco owners buy a cheap DPMS front handguard cap and replace the stock Norinco one. This solves the Norinco drop-in handguard compatibility issue. You MIGHT need a gunsmith for this depending if you have th eright tools to properly remove the front sight block or not.

I don't recommend dremelling your magpul furniture to account for a dimensional issue on a $2 part. Just replace the $2 part and be donw with it. Then enjoy your rifle for what is it and stop worrying about what it is not.

If you want to use a free float HG, you need to remove the out of spec cap anyhow as well as the front sight block. This is not specific to the Norinco, any standard AR is identical, so buying American won't put you any further ahead.

People who can't sleet at nigth because their proven-relaible AR doesn't sport a pony or a Noveske cross are less about shooting than they are about mall-ninja'ing anyhow.
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+1

This is only reasonable response in this thread.
 
I shouldered a 10.5" Norinco at a local shop on Saturday and it seemed to me that the aluminum was very "soft". Is this observation valid? From the gouges/dents in the beat up upper rail from merely from taking the top handle/sight combo on and off several times, I would say the metal is softer than my RRA AR15. I was not impressed. The finish was a mystery as well and she rattled like a tin can. It's worth spending $300 more on an NEA (North Eastern Arms).
 
mountainspruce said:
I shouldered a 10.5" Norinco at a local shop on Saturday and it seemed to me that the aluminum was very "soft". Is this observation valid? From the gouges/dents in the beat up upper rail from merely from taking the top handle/sight combo on and off several times, I would say the metal is softer than my RRA AR15. I was not impressed. The finish was a mystery as well and she rattled like a tin can. It's worth spending $300 more on an NEA (North Eastern Arms).
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I can't believe I'm defending a $600 Norinco AR when I can build a nice Aero Precision rifle for under $1000, BUT....

The mechanical engineer in me is cringing.

You cannot - repeat - cannot judge how soft a piece of anodized aluminum is without destructively testing it in some way.

Dings on the rail are less an indication of quality than they are of the ham-fistedness with which people took the carry handle on or off the firearm.

A 7075 AR15 forging is going to be as hard as any other, and only the anodizing process makes any difference, and then we are talking abrasion-resistant microns on the surface of the forging. Anodizing will not make something dent-resistant.

When a 7075-T6 billet is forged to rough shape, the alloy is forged between 900 F and 700 F. It can then be solution annealed at 900 F for 2 hours at temperature, followed by a water quench. You could precipitation harden the part afterward if needed. All of this is irrelevant though as all M16 and AR15 receivers are forged to the same mil standard, including the Norinco which was built using the M16 technical Data Pack for foreign military sales before it started to be sold to civilians ;)
 
enefgee said:
Claven2, since you're more in a position to know than most, there is a suggestion in some posts that the Norc AR's are cast - is this true to your knowledge, or just another internet myth?
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As another mech eng, casting isn't really appropriate for a receiver. At least without doing any math my gut says no way. Cast parts are weaker than forged ones in general and it is way harder to get the tolerances that you want/need for all those small parts.
 
Anyone checked the lead content in that Norc "aluminum"? :D. It scares me when your AR15 can double as a pencil or a radiation shield. :p

A buddy of mine has one and it shoots decently. As well or even better than many of the big name stuff. I was impressed enough not to trash the Norinco as much as I would have otherwise. A good shooter with the one he had wasn't outclassed against the big name stuff. That's pretty impressive for a Chinese knock off. Unlike the $10 "Rolox" aka "Rolex inspired" watches coming out of China for $10 these rifles work. More go than show.
 
Bolivar said:
Really, the only reasonable one? I would give it the title of "The Best, Most thought out and providing backup from experience" but is every other response unreasonable? :stirthepot2:
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Ok, fine. I did say his was the only one, thereby excluding my own post. :D

I've heard someone else mention the cast thing as well. I don't have any further info but way back in the day when hardly anyone was making AR's some people were using castings for the lowers. These were easily distinguished from forged versions by their shape. Personally I think it's likely a case of someone trying to knock the Norc as inferior just like people always do. I don't own a Norc AR but I do have an HP9 and M305 and I have yet to have any issues with either one but people seem to try and hate on those too.
 
I thought the Norc M305s were generally accepted as being decent quality. Same with their pistols? With shotguns I understand dimensional tolerances are a bit wonky, same with the CQs? I don't know. I'm not into shotguns.

As for shooting as well as the big name stuff, we civilian shooters are not going to subject ARs to combat level abuse so the quality differences won't show up. Also the high end rifles are not necessarily match grade in terms of accuracy. They are designed to function no print 0.5 MOA groups. Again, in this respect there is not much practical difference between high and low end equipment.

Practically speaking I think Norc, NEA, Rock River, DPMS or other lower cost AR will do fine for just about any civilian shooter. However some of use like to know/feel they are shooting rifles with better reputation, QA/QC what ever. That is fine.

As I said in an earlier post, if a shooter does not like their rifle they won't enjoy it. If they want a high quality and cost rifle, go for it. It's whatever people want. Just get out and shoot and have fun.
 
Ar180shooter said:
OP, you can't go wrong with an LMT. :D

I'd keep the norinco though. I plan on getting one eventually (probably one of the new shorty's) to use as a "beater AR". ;)
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Hey great minds think alike! Ha ha! Just kidding.
That's my setup already, beater norc with reflex 1x EOTech and LMT with better optics.

I am a crappy shot, cool parts in colour ain't gonna help me in that department, just gonna make me look silly on top of being crappy.
 
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enefgee said:
Claven2, since you're more in a position to know than most, there is a suggestion in some posts that the Norc AR's are cast - is this true to your knowledge, or just another internet myth?
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I rather doubt the Norinco receivers are anything other than 7075-T6 forged aluminum. As mentioned, Norinco started making these for foreign military sales - not for civilian sales.

Eventual civilian sales were an outgrowth of their contracts with Paraguay.

No military - even Paraguay - would buy a cast M4. Anyone remember cast Oly Arms receivers? They looked terrible, egged out early, and were essentially an epic fail.

Visually Norinco CQ-As have all the characteristics of a proper 7075 forging and none of the characteristics of castings. I have NOT destructive tested one, but my money is on forged.
 
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