First Gun, Need Advice

[snoopycda]

Makes no difference, all standard hunting rifle's trajectories with muzzle velocities over 2300-2400fps (almost everything) are so similar the differences are meaningless at any typical hunting range.

when the deer are out at somewhere between 200 and three hundred (you're not really sure) being familiar with the trajectory between different rifles can mean a hit instead of close but no venison.
when i switched from a 308 to a 7 mag i found myself over compensating for bullet drop until i forced myself to think before i shot instead of making the shot instinctively.

 

[ShootSavage]

No "newbie" should get a .375 H&H for a first rifle.

My advice is any of .30-06, .308, .280, 7mm-08, .270, 6.5 x55 or .260 in any rifle you like. They are all quite capable of taking moose with proper bullets. They are all fun to shoot for practice. The most important thing a newbie needs is lots of practice. A .375 H&H is not likely to be enjoyable for 20 to 40 rounds of practice at the range. There is a world of difference between firing a .375 once or twice from your hind legs at a stump, and actually settling down behind it to try to shoot four or five good groups.

couldn't agree more, using a caliber such a 375 H&H for your first rifle could cause you to develop a bad habit of flinching that you could find hard to break even after you get a smaller caliber, get yourself a lighter caliber to begin with if for nothing else then to avoid developing a flinch.

you could also consider having a muzzle brake installed on your 375 to reduce it's recoil as another option

 

[rral22]

I just did some quick calculations to show you one of the advantages of reloading. Some folks think the .375 has too much recoil - and in fact you alluded to a worry about it too. Here is how you can adjust loads to help you practice.

A 235gr Speer Hot-Core at 2500 fps will give about 23lbs of recoil with a 9lb rifle (scope included). The rifle will move back at 12.88 feet per second. A 250gr Swift A-Frame at 2500 fps will give 24.8lbs of recoil and move back at 13.33 feet per second in the same rifle. A 265gr cast lead bullet at 1900 fps will give 14.5 lbs of recoil and move back at 10.21 fps.

You could easily shoot moose with the 235gr Speer or the 250gr Swift.

Now, look at an 8lb .300 Win Mag and 180gr bullets moving along at 3100fps. Your recoil is 28.4 ft-lbs and velocity is 15.4 feet per second. A .30-06 with 180gr bullets at 2700 fps gives 20.9 ft-lbs and 12.96 feet per second.

You see, the 235gr .375 H&H load in that example should feel - all things being equal - similar to a 180gr .30-06 load. The 250gr load would also be quite similar.

Important factors are - make sure the rifle fits you properly (the length of pull is the main dimension you need to consider) and have a nice recoil pad fitted to the rifle. Some good options are Limbsavers and Pachmayer's Decelerator or F990.

What rifle is the .375?

All this is perfectly true.

I just don't understand why you would get a .375 with the known intention of not using it to its potential. It would be like owning a Ferrari but putting a rev. limiter on it because it goes too fast. Why buy a gun you can't shoot because it's too much? Why not get one you CAN shoot, and enjoy it?

 

[Superbrad]

Shoot the 375... Shoot the .30-06... Then come back to this thread and tell us your experience.... Then we can pick a rifle for you... Or help to do so at least

 

[Ardent]

All this is perfectly true.

I just don't understand why you would get a .375 with the known intention of not using it to its potential. It would be like owning a Ferrari but putting a rev. limiter on it because it goes too fast. Why buy a gun you can't shoot because it's too much? Why not get one you CAN shoot, and enjoy it?

Potential and versatility. I drive a 310 horse, 600 ft-lbs of torque Cummins Dodge as my daily driver, I maybe use a third of that power in almost all of my driving. But, I have the ability to throttle it up and tow 15,000lbs with ease, or get through that big mud hole to my work site or the start of the hunting trail.

.375 H&H is the same, it does a fantastic job with reduced loads, every bit as accurate as full loads. And as you say why tone down a cartridge, I say why artificially limit yourself to a hard ceiling in capability with a lesser chambering? If you load down your .375, or even just choose 235gr loadings, you have loads on tap all the way up to 380grs still should you ever want. A .375 is the most versatile hunting chambering on the planet, bar none. You can't go wrong, and the recoil's far more gentle than everyone makes it out to be.

 

[Pseudo]

I just did some quick calculations to show you one of the advantages of reloading. Some folks think the .375 has too much recoil - and in fact you alluded to a worry about it too. Here is how you can adjust loads to help you practice.

A 235gr Speer Hot-Core at 2500 fps will give about 23lbs of recoil with a 9lb rifle (scope included). The rifle will move back at 12.88 feet per second. A 250gr Swift A-Frame at 2500 fps will give 24.8lbs of recoil and move back at 13.33 feet per second in the same rifle. A 265gr cast lead bullet at 1900 fps will give 14.5 lbs of recoil and move back at 10.21 fps.

You could easily shoot moose with the 235gr Speer or the 250gr Swift.

Now, look at an 8lb .300 Win Mag and 180gr bullets moving along at 3100fps. Your recoil is 28.4 ft-lbs and velocity is 15.4 feet per second. A .30-06 with 180gr bullets at 2700 fps gives 20.9 ft-lbs and 12.96 feet per second.

You see, the 235gr .375 H&H load in that example should feel - all things being equal - similar to a 180gr .30-06 load. The 250gr load would also be quite similar.

Important factors are - make sure the rifle fits you properly (the length of pull is the main dimension you need to consider) and have a nice recoil pad fitted to the rifle. Some good options are Limbsavers and Pachmayer's Decelerator or F990.

What rifle is the .375?

Wow, That is some great info... Now i would really like to learn how to load. As far as the Rifle. I'm not sure, It should be arriving shortly from Keno with my father. He did tell me what the make was but i dont remember. I do remember what i found when i looked it up Online. He purchased it about a year after is tikka 30-06, so its about 35 years old. It's an old British make that went under in the mid-late 1980 after the gun laws changed (Not sure quite what the reason was.) I will be sure to post a picture as soon as I have. After all the help you have offered me, the least you deserve is a photo.

 

[ryan32]

I'd save my money and buy a bunch of 375 cartridges and start shooting. From all of the people that i have talked to, i haven't heard much complaining about the recoil. Like has been mentioned the 375 is gonna do what you want so why not spend your pennies on ammo and become real good with it.

 

[1899]

.... so its about 35 years old. It's an old British make that went under in the mid-late 1980 after the gun laws changed (Not sure quite what the reason was.)...

Next thing you know you will be posting a picture of a Rigby... or maybe a Whitworth or Churchill.

 

[Superbrad]

Ok ok... Put the brakes on your 375 love in... Here is the really reallys... 375 is a great cartridge... If you reload... If not then get a good moose load and use it... But these folks have a point in one way... The cost of a new rifle xould be used to buy reloading gear... Then use 375 for all... And use extra money for pistols, revolvers, small game guns... Etc...

 

[Pseudo]

Ahh... here we go, I found the history for the conversation I had with my dad. I will still post a pictures once it gets here. The make is A Parker Hale

 

[Ardent]

when the deer are out at somewhere between 200 and three hundred (you're not really sure) being familiar with the trajectory between different rifles can mean a hit instead of close but no venison.
when i switched from a 308 to a 7 mag i found myself over compensating for bullet drop until i forced myself to think before i shot instead of making the shot instinctively.

There is a whopping inch and a half of difference in drop at the extreme end of your range mentioned there, 300 yards, between the .308 shooting a 150gr and the 7mm Mag shooting a 150gr. Even if you make the 7mm Mag bullet lighter it really doesn't make any tangible difference. Inside 300 yards, all the standard hunting cartridges have virtually the same trajectory, we get worked up over differences that are imagined not real. Even at 400 yards, further than almost any of us shoot on a hunt, the difference between a 7mm Mag and a .308 is only 4"- less than the width of your palm. You can still shoot at the same point on big game and you'll kill it even that far out. At 200-300 yards, there is absolutely zero difference. The difference at 200 yards is a mere half inch, less than the width of my index finger! The margin of error in a hunting shot at 200-300 yards is far greater than any drop difference between any of the usual choices. So, pick up any rifle you're a fan of, and shoot it the same as any other rifle that does more than 2400fps- they're all the same. Yes, if we're shooting gophers at 550 yards, a couple inches can matter. But not in this discussion and big game hunting.

Drop

.308 Win --------- 7mm Rem Mag

100 -0.0 ---------- 100 -0.0
150 -1.0 ---------- 150 -0.8
200 -3.3 ---------- 200 -2.8
250 -7.0 ---------- 250 -6.0
300 -12.2 --------- 300 -10.5
350 -19.1 --------- 350 -16.4
400 -27.9 --------- 400 -23.9

 

[Ardent]

Ahh... here we go, I found the history for the conversation I had with my dad. I will still post a pictures once it gets here. The make is A Parker Hale

Typically good solid working guns, enjoy. You can get set up with a Lee Hand Press, scale, and a set of dies for probably $150-200. I use my Lee Hand Press even to load my African hunting ammo, it makes just as good of ammo as my bench mounted RCBS press, and I haven't used my bench mounted press in some time now as I can use my hand press at work. Don't confuse the Lee hand press with the Lee Loader- different equipment. You can then have endless fun making loads of all varieties for the .375- a crazy versatile chambering.

Here are some great reduced loads for the .375 H&H, use at your own risk (You'll likely find they are published elsewhere, Hodgdons lists a 39grs under a 300gr bullet SR4759 load I've found very accurate):

40grs SR4759 under a 270gr bullet is a fantastic reduced .375 H&H load, just over 2,000fps and feels like a .30-30. Hits a lot harder than a .30-30 though.

60grs H4895 under a 270gr bullet is a great light-medium load for deer and moose in .375, about 2,350fps. Recoils like a .308- very mild, but again hits a lot harder than a .308.

 

[rral22]

Potential and versatility. I drive a 310 horse, 600 ft-lbs of torque Cummins Dodge as my daily driver, I maybe use a third of that power in almost all of my driving. But, I have the ability to throttle it up and tow 15,000lbs with ease, or get through that big mud hole to my work site or the start of the hunting trail.

I'm not surprised. I too use my truck when I need it, but we drive the Camry whenever we can, actually, because it makes a lot more sense when you don't need the truck. I think the analogy between your truck and the .375 is perfect. Carry around excess power and ignore the price.

Here are some great reduced loads for the .375 H&H, use at your own risk (You'll likely find they are published elsewhere, Hodgdons lists a 39grs under a 300gr bullet SR4759 load I've found very accurate):

Buy a gun for a newbie and give "at your own risk" advice at the same time? Really?

For every one of those reduced loads, a workup will be required. Probably a change of sight in if accuracy counts. Complexity, work, and hassle so you can make it NOT work like a .375, but behave like many others (the .308 you mention) for exactly what gain? For a self confessed "newbie"?

Look, everything you have said about the .375 is true. I just think that making a new shooter's life that complicated, when the same results can be obtained very simply, with less recoil and fuss, and more cheaply as well, is just bad advice in that circumstance.

If he doesn't need 600 ft/lbs of torque, maybe an ordinary gas engine makes more sense.

 

[Superbrad]

I'm not surprised. I too use my truck when I need it, but we drive the Camry whenever we can, actually, because it makes a lot more sense when you don't need the truck. I think the analogy between your truck and the .375 is perfect. Carry around excess power and ignore the price.



Buy a gun for a newbie and give "at your own risk" advice at the same time? Really?

For every one of those reduced loads, a workup will be required. Probably a change of sight in if accuracy counts. Complexity, work, and hassle so you can make it NOT work like a .375, but behave like many others (the .308 you mention) for exactly what gain? For a self confessed "newbie"?

Look, everything you have said about the .375 is true. I just think that making a new shooter's life that complicated, when the same results can be obtained very simply, with less recoil and fuss, and more cheaply as well, is just bad advice in that circumstance.

If he doesn't need 600 ft/lbs of torque, maybe an ordinary gas engine makes more sense.

I agree because I don't want a newb thinking that you need to spend days sweating your cartridge when you can get 20 core lokt 180 gr .30-06 and do anything in north america...

At the same time ardent represents all sides of the sport and hobby and shows the op what is out there without being a snot or snob... Good on both of you and everyone in this thread for not jumping down op's throat... Good for cgn in general here...

 

[Ardent]

I'm not surprised. I too use my truck when I need it, but we drive the Camry whenever we can, actually, because it makes a lot more sense when you don't need the truck. I think the analogy between your truck and the .375 is perfect. Carry around excess power and ignore the price.



Buy a gun for a newbie and give "at your own risk" advice at the same time? Really?

For every one of those reduced loads, a workup will be required. Probably a change of sight in if accuracy counts. Complexity, work, and hassle so you can make it NOT work like a .375, but behave like many others (the .308 you mention) for exactly what gain? For a self confessed "newbie"?

Look, everything you have said about the .375 is true. I just think that making a new shooter's life that complicated, when the same results can be obtained very simply, with less recoil and fuss, and more cheaply as well, is just bad advice in that circumstance.

If he doesn't need 600 ft/lbs of torque, maybe an ordinary gas engine makes more sense.

To shoot back on your vehicular attack, our Cummins likely gets better mileage than your Camry. My Cummins does 6.9L/100kms on the highway at 95, and 8.0L/100kms at 110- it beats my wife's Honda. We also live where two feet of snow can blow in, in the blink of an eye and it doesn't get plowed- and in summer many of our roads aren't paved. Please save your high-brow take for the guys driving nine-foot high trucks in downtown Vancouver that never see a drop of mud.

On to cartridges- how often do you post load data on the internet? It is always accompanied by a disclaimer as I am not a ballistics lab, that data is for anybody not just him, part of why we share here on the internet. And no, those don't need workups as they're both starting loads. The .375 H&H also has a lovely and well known habit of shooting to the same point of aim with almost any load- including those two in my rifle, they shoot within an inch of my full house 300gr Buffalo hammering load.

Complexity? How about buying a new rifle? Mounts for it, rings, scope, ammo... He owns a .375, the most versatile rifle a guy can have. He also lives where Canada's true big game is, a .375 is perfect for hunting his country. Finally, handloading is a basic skill that benefits any hunter, and is a hobby I and many others (likely including you) enjoy almost as much as shooting itself. Advocating a simple, $200 handloading setup makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than a whole new rifle when he already has the most versatile rifle going.

Vinegar for vinegar, if you will.

 

[Pseudo]

I don't think I will be getting into Loading just quite yet. A lot to learn before I jump into that little adventure feet first. Thank you for the advice and I will know were to come when I feel ready to take on loading. This Forum has a lot of knowledgeable members and I will make sure to post a new thread regarding loading when the time comes . Right now however you guys have given me a lot of great information to look into and I don't think I will be buying a new gun as soon as I had expected. I think I will play with the .375, see how i handle it and maybe get a .22 later for practice.

 

[Superbrad]

I don't think I will be getting into Loading just quite yet. A lot to learn before I jump into that little adventure feet first. Thank you for the advice and I will know were to come when I feel ready to take on loading. This Forum has a lot of knowledgeable members and I will make sure to post a new thread regarding loading when the time comes . Right now however you guys have given me a lot of great information to look into and I don't think I will be buying a new gun as soon as I had expected. I think I will play with the .375, see how i handle it and maybe get a .22 later for practice.

Good for you... Buy the 22 now and start ha in fun... I love my 22... Nothing teaches basic marksmanship better... What else can you shoot for a nickle a round... Lol... Your h and h is a treasure... But you seem really interested... Keep us informed so we can watch you grow as a firearms enthusiast and grow along with you bud...

 

[Ardent]

Good call, you'll probably find it even milder than the 10 gauge you've fired, it's truly a mild mannered brute if that can be said. Good shove, no bite.

Here's the last couple years of my .375, missing a good few but it's representative. It's a rifle you can do anything with, shoots as flat as anything, hits hard, a chambering you really can't outgrow.

 

[Pseudo]

Ardent, Thanks for posting those pictures, I actually saw them in another thread. Some really beautiful game, World traveller? I will totally keep everyone posted, Looking forward to next hunting season.

 

[Ardent]

I try, when I don't like the weather in the northern hemisphere it's always the opposite in the southern hemisphere... I tell my wife I just like to visit friends that happen to hunt interesting game in interesting places. That said, you live in "Canada's Africa" if there ever was one- I like to think I'm on the fringe of it too up here just south of the NWT's. Your .375's right at home.