The 30 Gibbs.... Tell me more (with another twist)
- Thread starter cycbb486
- Start date
I have a Gibbs chambered rifle (.340). Gibbs produced numerous chamberings from .240 up to .338 all based on the same concept of a .30-06 case with the shoulder blown forward and minimal taper in the case body. Powder capacity is increased considerably.
My cases are fire formed from new winchester .30-06 brass. My pet load is 65 grains of IMR4350 behind a 200 grain nosler.
A .30 Gibbs should give you very close to 300H+H performance. A big advantage to this chambering is that the gunsmithing required to convert a 30-06 is considerably less than converting to a belted magnum like 300 H+H or 300 Win Mag. The bolt face and rails of your rifle will not have to be altered to accomodate a .30 Gibbs cartridge. Basically it is a re-chambering job to convert 30-06 to 30 Gibbs.
Then the fun begins. Prepare to fire form cases and re-load your own ammunition. Custom dies are available from RCBS.
Moose Masher
CGN Regular
- Location
- Oak Hammok Manitoba
I think the downside to the .30 Gibbs is that the shoulder is moved forward so that .30/06 ammo won't headspace properly in it for fire forming.
I don't think you could use the cream of wheat method either for the same reason.
You might get away with seating bullets way out there into the lands to hold it in place, but weak brass could be the result.
I remember reading that hydraulic forming dies were the way to go.
I don't think you could use the cream of wheat method either for the same reason.
You might get away with seating bullets way out there into the lands to hold it in place, but weak brass could be the result.
I remember reading that hydraulic forming dies were the way to go.
- Location
- Whitehorse, Yukon
I previously worked with Ron Propp of Gibbs Rifle Products in Lethbridge AB.
Making Gibbs cartridge cases is easily done.
Use a neck expander die to neck up over caliber size and create a shoulder to headspace on {using 30 Gibbs die}.
12 grs. bullseye and cream of wheat and cap with a bit TP to hold everything in.
Take a cleaning rod with brush to clean chamber of residue of C of W. if your fireforming more than a few cases.
30 Gibbs in a 26" barrel would match mid range loads of a 300 win. in a 24" barrel.
RC
Making Gibbs cartridge cases is easily done.
Use a neck expander die to neck up over caliber size and create a shoulder to headspace on {using 30 Gibbs die}.
12 grs. bullseye and cream of wheat and cap with a bit TP to hold everything in.
Take a cleaning rod with brush to clean chamber of residue of C of W. if your fireforming more than a few cases.
30 Gibbs in a 26" barrel would match mid range loads of a 300 win. in a 24" barrel.
RC
RockChucker is spot on.
Ron Propp was the gunsmith who built my 340Gibbs. The fire forming process outlined above is pretty much exactly how Ron advised me to go about it. When I had the rifle built up, part of the package was a set of RCBS dies. The dies contained an expander plug for 35 cal and a spacer used in the neck expansion process. This process put a bulge on the case neck so the case would be held firmy in the chamber and against the bolt face during fire forming.
shortaction
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoulin Island, Ontario
sort of like a 30-06 Improved with a couple grains more case capacity. I would think it would be the ballistic equal of the 300WSM or SAUM,....or, at least close.
I have a 30-06 Imp 40 deg reamer and I did build one a couple years ago but sold it before I burned any powder in it.
Maybe the owner of it has fired it and will let us know how it went.
It was a new 24" stainless 308 Win SPS barrel, rechambered and put into a 721 action and stock.
I have a 30-06 Imp 40 deg reamer and I did build one a couple years ago but sold it before I burned any powder in it.
Maybe the owner of it has fired it and will let us know how it went.
It was a new 24" stainless 308 Win SPS barrel, rechambered and put into a 721 action and stock.
Okay so now here is the next questions.
We know what a 30-06 can do as is. The talk is that a 30-06 AI is not worth doing because of the short gains.
I take it the 30 Gibbs is where the gains can be seen??????? Now in comparison to the 300 Win Mag?
Is it kind of what the 338-06 is to the 338 Win Mag??????????
I know we are looking at different diameter bullets in the 30 versus 338.
Something tells me there are greater gains going with the 30 Gibbs over a 338-06 outside of beind able to chuck heavier bullets??????
I am feeling that I would prefer the 30 Gibbs over the 338-06 just for the fact that it is something that can definately be used to play with out to 1000 at the farm. It also has more than enough smack down power when using the right bullet........
More research required...........................
We know what a 30-06 can do as is. The talk is that a 30-06 AI is not worth doing because of the short gains.
I take it the 30 Gibbs is where the gains can be seen??????? Now in comparison to the 300 Win Mag?
Is it kind of what the 338-06 is to the 338 Win Mag??????????
I know we are looking at different diameter bullets in the 30 versus 338.
Something tells me there are greater gains going with the 30 Gibbs over a 338-06 outside of beind able to chuck heavier bullets??????
I am feeling that I would prefer the 30 Gibbs over the 338-06 just for the fact that it is something that can definately be used to play with out to 1000 at the farm. It also has more than enough smack down power when using the right bullet........
More research required...........................
My view is that if you want to play and the extra work is fun, then that is all the reason you need. The plain .30-06 is a fine round for hunting and to me the extra fiddling around is not worth the gain. Folks are shooting their .308 Wins out to 1000 yards, so even for "playing" there are better options, imo.
The last point is that there is no free lunch. To get near .300 mag performance you have to ramp pressure up. For example the .300 H&H has a case capacity of around 86gr. The .300 Win Mag is ~90gr and the .30 Gibbs is around 75gr (from what I gather). If you want more go than a .30-06, then why not get a .300 Win Mag? You can find very high quality brass and inexpensive dies, and you don't have to push pressure through the roof.
Like i said, in my view it is only worth doing for the fun.
1899 the extra work to me is NO MORE than what it takes to run my 6PPC. I have to neck turn and fire form at least 2 times before it is match ready..
Allready ahead of the 8 Ball by NOT having to turn necks as that would be the neck I would go for.
It is also different just like the 338-06 is different. Get a bit more bang with a bit less recoil than the full blown 338 Win Mag. I would think the same as in the Gibbs.
I do not follow the Long Range BR game (1000 yard) but I get the feeling the Gibbs is similar to the 30 Boo Boo which some shoot in the long range BR game....
Allready ahead of the 8 Ball by NOT having to turn necks as that would be the neck I would go for.
It is also different just like the 338-06 is different. Get a bit more bang with a bit less recoil than the full blown 338 Win Mag. I would think the same as in the Gibbs.
I do not follow the Long Range BR game (1000 yard) but I get the feeling the Gibbs is similar to the 30 Boo Boo which some shoot in the long range BR game....
- Location
- Whitehorse, Yukon
The Gibbs cartridges are the most case capacity that one can get from 30/06 brass and still have a neck to hold the bullet. The neck is shorter in length than a caliber quite simular to the 300 win mag in design {very short in comparison to bullet diameter}.
The 340 Gibbs out performs the 338/06 by quite a margin using the same bullet weights.
RC
The 340 Gibbs out performs the 338/06 by quite a margin using the same bullet weights.
RC
I get what you are saying, but for me it is not worth the hassle. I don't know how much less the recoil would be with the .30 Gibbs vs a .300 Win Mag. But if I were wanting something different, and not interested in a .308 Win for long range, and wanted to stick with a .308", I'd probably go with a .308 Norma. The brass is formed easily from .338 Win Mag; it has slightly less capacity than the .300 Win Mag - but still more than the .30 Gibbs. A mid-level load would give the performance and recoil of the Gibbs at maximum. You could always ramp it up another notch if you wanted to, or keep it there for milder recoil.
But, like I said, if it is fun for you then that is the only real reason you need!
So I have been corresponding with a fellow in Pennsylvania. This came about from another project that I have in the works. Anyways he is in Williamsport, home of 1000 Yard Bench Rest.
I proceeded to ask his thoughts.
Basically it is as you said 1899.
This is my e-mail to him.
Okay on another note you shoot Long Range???????????
> I want to build another large caliber for hunting also just farting
> around at the farm out to 1000 yards. I found a Rem 700 action from
> 1965 that is in beautiful shape that I am going to rebarrel.
> I used to shoot a 30-06 and sold it because the hunting was leaving me.
> I figured if I wanted t ohunt again (whitetails) I could use my .243.
> After almost losing my buck this year I figured I need another big
> rifle. Yes we can loose them with a big one but I know what a 30 can
> and will do to whitetails.
> Initially I was thinking 338-06. Then I heard about the 30 Gibbs. You
> heard of it? Then there is the 30 Boo Boo which is Tooley's. You have
> to get everything from him for the Boo Boo right?
> Just wondering your thoughts.... I want to stay off of the 30-06 case.
> From what I figure the Gibbs and Boo Boo should be very similar. It
> would be plenty of rifle for North America and yet would be do able out
> to 1000......
> Your thoughts.
> Calvin
His reply:
Calvin,
My thoughts would be, 300 WSM. There is a reason it has become the most
common cartridge in 1000 yard BR. It is easy to load for, and a very
efficient case. Components are cheap and readily available. No super
custom dies and cartridge work, just easy stuff that's off the shelf. It
will propel 190 and 210 grain bullets perfectly. It burns efficient,
which means the powder burns clean and barrel life is much greater. It
would have whitetail range out to 800 if I was to guess. At 1K, it really
isn't the greatest choice for killing stuff. Great for paper, but not a
lot of energy is left that far out.
I've done the whole custom cartridge route before, and what a colossal
pain in the ass. Never again. I don't even want to blow a case out.
Lifes too short for that crap. Invariably, something becomes more work
than it was worth. Jmho.
If you want to stick with the 06 case, I'd build an 06. A good, longer
custom barrel will make it perform like no other 06 you can buy. And
it'll have all the punch you need for whitetails without spending months
of your life getting it ready to shoot. Now, if you want to do that just
cause you enjoy all that work, then have at it. I fully understand the
mindset there, I've done it myself. I'm betting that your next rifle
won't be a wildcat if this one proves to be as big a pain as mine was.
But, there are folks who enjoy that stuff and if so, my hats off to em.
(as I sit and load easy chamberings)
All the stuff for the BooBoo or any of those can be had anywhere. Its
just more expensive if you buy it all yourself. Also, you have to learn
all the tricks by buying stuff two, three, four times.
Time for a little well deserved R&R here.
Good luck with the project.
Phil.
I proceeded to ask his thoughts.
Basically it is as you said 1899.
This is my e-mail to him.
Okay on another note you shoot Long Range???????????
> I want to build another large caliber for hunting also just farting
> around at the farm out to 1000 yards. I found a Rem 700 action from
> 1965 that is in beautiful shape that I am going to rebarrel.
> I used to shoot a 30-06 and sold it because the hunting was leaving me.
> I figured if I wanted t ohunt again (whitetails) I could use my .243.
> After almost losing my buck this year I figured I need another big
> rifle. Yes we can loose them with a big one but I know what a 30 can
> and will do to whitetails.
> Initially I was thinking 338-06. Then I heard about the 30 Gibbs. You
> heard of it? Then there is the 30 Boo Boo which is Tooley's. You have
> to get everything from him for the Boo Boo right?
> Just wondering your thoughts.... I want to stay off of the 30-06 case.
> From what I figure the Gibbs and Boo Boo should be very similar. It
> would be plenty of rifle for North America and yet would be do able out
> to 1000......
> Your thoughts.
> Calvin
His reply:
Calvin,
My thoughts would be, 300 WSM. There is a reason it has become the most
common cartridge in 1000 yard BR. It is easy to load for, and a very
efficient case. Components are cheap and readily available. No super
custom dies and cartridge work, just easy stuff that's off the shelf. It
will propel 190 and 210 grain bullets perfectly. It burns efficient,
which means the powder burns clean and barrel life is much greater. It
would have whitetail range out to 800 if I was to guess. At 1K, it really
isn't the greatest choice for killing stuff. Great for paper, but not a
lot of energy is left that far out.
I've done the whole custom cartridge route before, and what a colossal
pain in the ass. Never again. I don't even want to blow a case out.
Lifes too short for that crap. Invariably, something becomes more work
than it was worth. Jmho.
If you want to stick with the 06 case, I'd build an 06. A good, longer
custom barrel will make it perform like no other 06 you can buy. And
it'll have all the punch you need for whitetails without spending months
of your life getting it ready to shoot. Now, if you want to do that just
cause you enjoy all that work, then have at it. I fully understand the
mindset there, I've done it myself. I'm betting that your next rifle
won't be a wildcat if this one proves to be as big a pain as mine was.
But, there are folks who enjoy that stuff and if so, my hats off to em.
(as I sit and load easy chamberings)
All the stuff for the BooBoo or any of those can be had anywhere. Its
just more expensive if you buy it all yourself. Also, you have to learn
all the tricks by buying stuff two, three, four times.
Time for a little well deserved R&R here.
Good luck with the project.
Phil.
