Anyone noticed a drop in WT numbers??

[scott_r]

I have noticed a big decline in South Sask as well. We had no problems bagging our mule deer but whitetail will be a lot tougher.

Thats what I found as well. Saw lots of mulies, bagged a real big one with my bow but whitetails seemed to really be down. Funny thing is they limited the muledeer draw and did not put any restrictions on whitetails.

 

[Demonical]

In the Swan Hills AB WMUs, heavy snow falls, severe winter weather plus the IDIOTIC doe 'harvest' has pretty much decimated the whitetail numbers, along with too many wolves.

But in this case I blame the doe 'harvest' as number one problem.

Sadly, the gov't only cares about money and will likely continue selling doe licenses, and idiot sausage hunters will continue slaughtering the does, then asking the stupid question: "where are all the whitetails?"

 

[cycbb486]

Demonical I agree 100% with your comments.

There are to many out there with the attitude I paid for my tag I WANTS MY DEER. There are MANY who cannot handle not harvesting a whitetail. That is reality.

 

[sjemac]

Didn't notice a real drop in deer numbers but they did go fully nocturnal in my area. Not one deer on the trail cams between 6 am and 7 pm during the last 3 weeks of November.

I didn't shoot a deer (yet -- headed east this weekend) for the first time in 15 years despite hunting for them pretty hard. Had some early opportunities but I was trying to get the boy on one and passed on them.

The elk and the moose help to take the sting out of being deerless.

 

[saskcop]

Sask environment has pretty much single handedly destroyed the WT populations in some areas of the province. Their eradication of chronic wasting disease program turned into a drive the deer into extinction program.

 

[xeon]

In the Swan Hills AB WMUs, heavy snow falls, severe winter weather plus the IDIOTIC doe 'harvest' has pretty much decimated the whitetail numbers, along with too many wolves.

But in this case I blame the doe 'harvest' as number one problem.

Sadly, the gov't only cares about money and will likely continue selling doe licenses, and idiot sausage hunters will continue slaughtering the does, then asking the stupid question: "where are all the whitetails?"

This makes a lot of sense, read any population surveys done on deer and the areas where they're hunted and not hunted have drastic differences in numbers. So you combine high hunting pressure in an area with allocated doe and fawn tags and the populations are going to dip in an area. However, there are still deer around you just have to look in different places, which a lot of people dont do year after year.

 

[xeon]

Sask environment has pretty much single handedly destroyed the WT populations in some areas of the province. Their eradication of chronic wasting disease program turned into a drive the deer into extinction program.

Its either that or have the deer get cwd and have it spread across the province like wildfire which could then spread to the mulies, moose, elk and resulting in you not having a season for anything just a giant cull of everything.

 

[Demonical]

This makes a lot of sense, read any population surveys done on deer and the areas where they're hunted and not hunted have drastic differences in numbers. So you combine high hunting pressure in an area with allocated doe and fawn tags and the populations are going to dip in an area. However, there are still deer around you just have to look in different places, which a lot of people dont do year after year.

First off, I didn't bother hunting any big game this fall. Never even bought a tag. My post is not about whether or not I could have gotten a buck. But in my case I only hunt for big mature deer (not worried about rack score), so it's always 'iffy' as to whether or not I will get a buck that meets my criteria.
But if you've looked at any of my trail cam pics, you'd see that I know where there are some BIG deer.

On to my point. Right off the go, the hwy we travel to-from work (Hwy 32 central AB), is normally crawling with deer. This year they've been almost non-existent.
When the rut kicks in, it's almost a daily thing to see a dead buck along the shoulder, that got mowed down during the night. This year, there has not been a single deer killed along that stretch of highway, where you would expect to see so many killed. And it's simply because the deer numbers are so low.

We had a terrible winter last year; heavy snow, extreme cold. Wiped out a lot of deer. Also, from talking to a trapper, he said the wolf kill of deer along the Athabasca R near whitecourt was just crazy.
With the deep snow, then a heavy crust that formed later in the winter, the wolves had a field day. He told me there was a wolf kill (mainly deer), every 1/2 a mile there.

Then you combine that with the heavy doe kill ('harvest') that went on before winter, and when spring rolled around, deer numbers were way down.

I can also tell you that from my trail cam pics, the bucks that did survive were emaciated. Poor condition, worst I've seen in years. So there were likely a lot of deer that starved as well.



Best thing that can happen to help the deer numbers is to call F&W and try to convince them to cancel that ill-conceived doe kill.

If that continues (and $$$ says it will), then expect low deer numbers for several years, in the Swan Hills WMUs anyway.

I cannot speak to the rest of the province...

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

The CWD program didn't effect that much of an area.The drop in numbers is likely down to a more healthy and sustainable level.Which is probably the numbers we should be seeing.The increase in farmland also makes more food available.When we were all forest there never was the numbers that we have now with the agricultural industry.

You get over population then you get problems like others have stated.The deer are there, I know this for a fact, I document and save all the pictures from years with the cameras.

I think maybe that the people are wanting to work less and don't spend as much time hunting thus resulting in seeing less.

 

[M12shooter]

In the areas I hunt the numbers are seriously down from last year. I have seen a few mature does without fawns but no bucks at all and I have found zero rubs and scrapes. On the other hand coyotes and wolves are around in great numbers based on the "talking" they are both doing. When the snow came the lack of deer tracks said that the deer are few in number and the coyotes and some wolves are present in record numbers.I actually saw a decent sized wolf at 200 yards or so in broad daylight three days ago. It seems like the predator numbers have been building for a couple of years at least and I suspect they have been taking out fawns in dramatic numbers.

I think we are in or on the brink of a serious population crash at least in my area that isn't going to turn around any time soon. I have the sense from talking to other hunters that this is pretty widespread.

There is another week of season left but I am losing interest under the circumstances.

Nine good hunters through our deer camp in West Manitoba over the past three weeks. Only one buck shot. Numbers are rock bottom low. Absolutely no fawns seen with does. Some good tracks but what is left has gone nocturnal. Passed on a forker buck, should have shot him as this is the first time in 29 years that my freezer will contain no venison.

 

[SeanC]

Thats what I found as well. Saw lots of mulies, bagged a real big one with my bow but whitetails seemed to really be down. Funny thing is they limited the muledeer draw and did not put any restrictions on whitetails.

Noticed the same thing around Saskatoon. I didn't go for deer this year, but I saw 0 whitetail on my bird hunting trips. Plenty of mulies though. A couple years ago you couldn't swing a stick without hitting at least a couple whitetails.

 

[HighTeckRedNeck]

Yup there is maybe 10% of the deer that there was last year in our area of south sask. I didn't even go for a buck. I ended up getting three does as I was given a depredation tag. Felt bad using it.

 

[Ardent]

In the Swan Hills AB WMUs, heavy snow falls, severe winter weather plus the IDIOTIC doe 'harvest' has pretty much decimated the whitetail numbers, along with too many wolves.

But in this case I blame the doe 'harvest' as number one problem.

Sadly, the gov't only cares about money and will likely continue selling doe licenses, and idiot sausage hunters will continue slaughtering the does, then asking the stupid question: "where are all the whitetails?"

Thanks for the crude insult to myself and everyone else who takes females for the table (tens of thousands of us). I also trophy hunt, and eat that too of course- but if it's expressly for the table it's female. In our area, we have so many deer it's unreal despite tons of doe harvest (you can buy a supplemental tag good for two antlerless Whitetail, likely the same as your WMU).

Where did you do your Masters degree in Conservation or Bio? Or do you just drive the highway like everyone else and presume you are somehow enlightened and all the idiots like myself apparently are clueless sausage mongers?

Some idiot was happy to put this female in the freezer and it was a sensible choice for Conservation too as evidenced by our healthy deer. I'm wondering how you're an authority on why the doe harvest is THE reason Whitetail are down some places, but not others with the same harvest.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

Don't worry, the numbers are there.People just aren't seeing them like you said, people have become lazy, if they can't shoot it from the truck and drive right to it they don't bother.

I see more and more deer every season in my area and on my cameras.

Thanks for the crude insult to myself and everyone else who takes females for the table (tens of thousands of us). I also trophy hunt, and eat that too of course- but if it's expressly for the table it's female. In our area, we have so many deer it's unreal despite tons of doe harvest (you can buy a supplemental tag good for two antlerless Whitetail, likely the same as your WMU).

Where did you do your Masters degree in Conservation or Bio? Or do you just drive the highway like everyone else and presume you are somehow enlightened and all the idiots like myself apparently are clueless sausage mongers?

Some idiot was happy to put this female in the freezer and it was a sensible choice for Conservation too as evidenced by our healthy deer. I'm wondering how you're an authority on why the doe harvest is THE reason Whitetail are down some places, but not others with the same harvest.

 

[8mmpeter]

Tagged 5 in Bancroft opening week.

 

[Demonical]

Ardent, did you read my post? I said I wasn't speaking for the rest of AB, I'm talking specifically of the Swan Hills WMUs.

And up here in the high country the doe kill, is a stupid policy, only aimed at revenue from what I can see. It sure as hell has nothing to do with actual deer numbers here or the Gov't would have shut it down already!!

When they instituted that doe kill 4-5 years ago (or whatever it was), this area was crawling with deer. But we get unreal weather up here. My buddies were all going on about how they were going to shoot does for sausage and I said then that the deer herd here is too vulnerable to any killing of the does.
And I was right. Deer numbers here have dropped steadily ever since. Now they are low as I've ever seen here.

And 30 years of working in the wilderness, observing the deer here, day & night, because I'm a shift worker, seeing the effects of heavy weather and stuff. Yes, my observations are well founded. I feel eminently qualified to make the statement.

Where you live, you may be over-run with deer. Maybe where you live, a doe harvest is ok. It is not in these WMUs; leave the does along in this area.

If you want sausage, shoot a buck. That's not gonna have any long-term affect on deer numbers. Problem is, everybody goes out and first thing they do is they kill a doe. The policy pretty much skews the deer harvest.

 

[Demonical]

^ To further my point...

There's a number of factors involved in the deer numbers being down: severe weather, wolf predation and the doe kill. Point is, you cannot control the weather and there's not much you can do about the wolves (we need a cull here), so whats the one controllable variable? The doe harvest.

In the Swan Hills WMUs it is the only thing we can really do to help the deer herd recover.

I will never shoot a doe unless the thing is piled up along a road, hit by a car, and needs to be put down. But that's just me. I have a thing about preserving the deer herd; why kill a doe, when you are really killing 2-3 deer with that bullet?

So I think differently then most. I made a conscious decision in 1982 to never shoot a grizzly in AB, as it was clear to me then that there were not enough bears. Even though the numbers are increasing and we see more grizz' around here then ever, I still would not shoot one.

I was only a kid then, when I made that decision.

And I think all hunters can make the same type of decision regarding stuff like the doe harvest (in this area).

 

[Demonical]

^^ Am I 'Holier-then-thou'... ####, I'm an ####### with my selfish attitude...

 

[saskgunowner101]

Don't worry, the numbers are there.People just aren't seeing them like you said, people have become lazy, if they can't shoot it from the truck and drive right to it they don't bother.

I see more and more deer every season in my area and on my cameras.

The numbers are down where I am in 52, guys I've talked to say they're down around Mac Dowall and Birch Hills as well. I hunt with feet and a heart beat and I can tell you, the numbers are down around here. My neighbors game cams tell him the same thing. Last winter didn't do the deer any favors.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

Not doubting you at all, maybe the animals have been forced to remain in the bush, which is where I hunt in WMZ 51.What I have noticed being down is the number of hunters.I do know that some are fed up with the antics of some of the "hunters" in the area and have quit or moved elsewhere.

I have a number of new bucks on camera as well as some previous visitors from years past and also does with fawns and yearlings.They seem to be comfortable at all hours of the day in the area.However the smart big old bucks once again are exclusively moving at night, some very nice ones during daylight but the monsters you never see.

Watched these two families all year.

The numbers are down where I am in 52, guys I've talked to say they're down around Mac Dowall and Birch Hills as well. I hunt with feet and a heart beat and I can tell you, the numbers are down around here. My neighbors game cams tell him the same thing. Last winter didn't do the deer any favors.