Wolf Experience on Vanc Isle - Lesson

Riflechair

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And now you know the rest of the story.....

examiner.com

A newly-published essay about wolf predation on Vancouver Island by renowned Canadian researcher Valerius Geist — an authority on deer and other wildlife — is raising eyebrows and some hackles among Northwest outdoorsmen and women.


Geist offers some facts and personal observations about wolves that the reintroduction advocates seem to overlook, but that have elk and deer hunters alarmed.

He writes:
Nothing in my previous studies had prepared me for what I was to experience with wolves on Vancouver Island beginning in 1999. In my student days, in the late 1950s, wolves on Vancouver Island were so scarce that some thought they were extinct. In the early 1970s they reappeared and swept the island. The annual hunter-harvest of black-tailed deer dropped swiftly from about 25,000 to less than 3,000 today. There were incidents of wolves threatening people, and a colleague, treed by a pack, clammed up as nobody believed it. Wolves threatening people? Ridiculous!
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Therein lies perhaps the biggest problem. Denial. Among devoted wolf advocates, the terms “benign,” and “shy” are frequently tossed around. It seems somehow inconceivable to them that wolves are simply cunning predators that are smart enough to test potential prey, to find weakness and exploit it. In that respect, they are closer to human predators — street thugs, home invaders; anyone that honest citizens find a need to arm themselves against — or maybe it’s vice versa.

The story of a September encounter between a 24-year-old female deer hunter and some wolves up in northwest Chelan County raised quite a few eyebrows. On a hiking forum, her experience was debated, with some sneering, some jeering and a few cheering. On a hunting forum, her story was respected and her actions getting a not of approval from fellow hunters. This column discussed her adventure.

That hunter, Kari Herschberger, noted during her narrative that the wolves approached and backed off. They flanked her and looked her over. Some believed they were merely curious. But Geist’s essay puts these maneuvers in perspective:
That “tameness,” that “hanging around,” that increasing boldness and inquisitiveness, is the wolf’s way of exploring its potential prey, and the strength of its potential enemies. Coyotes targeting children in urban parks act in virtually the same manner. Two wolves in June 2000 severely injured a camper on Vargas Island just off the coast of Vancouver Island. These wolves became even tamer before the attack, as they nipped at the clothing of campers, licked their exposed skin and ate hotdogs from their hands. Our observations here suggested that wolves, attracted to habitations by the scarcity of prey, shift to dogs and livestock, but also increasingly, though cautiously, explore humans, before mounting a first, clumsy attack.
Geist further observes that there is considerable history about wolves that the current crop of wolf advocates evidently overlook delilberately, for any number of reasons. Perhaps it just didn’t fit with their politically correct notions about wolves. Here is what Geist says about that:
…Italian and French historians published papers and books detailing how thousands of people had died in earlier centuries from wolf attacks. Some historians rightly asked the question, how did North American scientists ever conclude that wolves were harmless and no threat to people? We now know the answer: In the absence of personal experience or sound language competence, they chose to disregard, even ridicule, the accumulated experience of others from Russia, France, Italy, Germany, Finland, Greenland, Sweden, Iran, Kazakhstan, India, Afghanistan, Korea, and Japan.
All of this brings us around to what is happening right now in Washington State, where hunters are growing more alarmed at what they perceive as the Department of Fish and Wildlife’s “Pollyanna” attitude about wolf reintroduction and repopulation. There are suspicions that this state has more wolves than the WDFW estimates, which is also said about the mountain lion and black bear populations, and can probably apply to bobcats as well.

With the end of hound hunting for these predators, their populations have gone up fast.

And this doesn’t include the coyote population. Coyotes frequently show up in urban areas. When house pets begin disappearing, urbanites become alarmed.

All of this predation is having what hunters believe is a serious impact on elk and deer populations. Throw wolves into the equation and the outcome could be devastating.
Some argue that hunters are merely selfish, that they just want lots of elk and deer for their own sport. That may be partly true, but the overwhelming sentiment is that they are genuinely concerned that this state’s elk and deer populations could be devastated. It does not help matters that they see the WDFW as somewhat disinterested in this, so long as we get an ample number of documented breeding pairs.

This columnist has advocated returning hound hunting for cougars, bobcats and bears. The Legislature has that authority. Likewise, the hunting license requirement to hunt coyotes should be abolished, and people should be allowed to shoot coyotes on sight.

Geist’s essay should be required reading. It’s a forecast for what Washington might expect with expanded wolf populations.







 
Well, once they've chewed their way through the prey in the wild, and since they often kill for fun that won't take too long, we can expect the wolves to follow the prey animals into the urban settings they have recently colonized.

That should get interesting.

And as for the wolf "scientists" most of them are more governed by their emotions than their intellects. That and the prevailing hubris that no credence can be put in anything that has been observed and recorded by "non-scientists".
 
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Pretty words in eloquent prose.
Years ago the U. S. of A. had grizzly problems.
They do not have grizzly fur problems any more.
Take a wild guess why?
 
Geist is highly respected in his field and has for years got it right when it comes to wolves. All Geist is saying is beware of the "Disneyfication" of wolves, even among so-called experts.

In Ontario we see the same lax attitude when it comes to black bears. Most Ontarians believe that the most dangerous bears are females with cubs. The Provincial government tells us that the most dangerous bears are "habitualized" bears that have lost their fear of humans due to feeding, backyard garbage, etc. There is some truth in both scenarios, but the facts show that the most bear attacks are from large, lone, wild male bears. Predatory black bears. But it is not politically correct to state that black bears sometimes do in fact hunt humans. Political correctness maintains that "they are more scared of us than we are of them" is an across the board rule. Same goes for wolves.

Geist long ago said that the first thing a wolf should do when it sees a human is turn and run. He also said that any wolf that lingers and looks is sizing you up and weighing the odds.

I like the fact that we have wolves here in Ontario. They are part of the ecosystem, just like bears. I've never shot or hunted wolves and currently have no desire to do so. Nevertheless, wolves must be respected and understood for what they are: top predators and their prey occasionally includes humans. To underestimate this fact puts people at risk.
 
Well said

And as for the wolf "scientists" most of them are more governed by their emotions than their intellects. That and the prevailing hubris that no credence can be put in anything that has been observed and recorded by "non-scientists".

I was not aware that the Ministry of Forest Lands and Natural Resource Operations was re-introducing wolves on Vancouver Island. Why not throw in a few moose while they're at it? Today, the managed increase of a predatorial species is always at the expense of all non-predatorial and predatorial species (ie. Cougar). Meanwhile black bear hunts are now illegal on Haida Gwaii because the Haida somehow have come to the conclusion that bear populations are in danger? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Just be prepared to lose a few folks in the transition to a more suitable population balance on Vancouver Island. Nature can be cold and cruel - we are never immune to nature's influence.
Having said that, I'm a part of the ecosystem so I’d have to indulge in a little population management of my own.

Industry has been lobbying gov't for years about deer populations & browse issues in tree plantations with a moderate to high cedar components. It's costing them millions in maintenance, fixtures, extended road maintenance and brushing costs, silviculture surveying and replanting. There is also a safety problem with traffic accidents of a pretty serious nature. Driving the highways on Vancouver Island can be a little like going to the Casino.

Richard

 
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I don't think that Geist said that wolves had been introduced to Vancouver Is. He appeared to say that they dropped to near extinction and then rapidly rebounded while deer dropped dramatically.

The incident on Vargas Is (near Tofino) as I recall the victim was killed not just injured. It was not brought about by a shortage of prey so much as the beach where the kayakers were camped was a popular camping spot for kayakers and feeding the wolves I gather was a common and perhaps popular activity by camping kayakers. Having said all that, Vargas Is is pretty small and hard to imagine even small numbers of wolves surviving on deer only.

cheers mooncoon
 
A lot of the wolf lovers are like global warming proponents. They may have good intentions but are blind in some ways.
 
I don't think that Geist said that wolves had been introduced to Vancouver Is. He appeared to say that they dropped to near extinction and then rapidly rebounded while deer dropped dramatically.

The incident on Vargas Is (near Tofino) as I recall the victim was killed not just injured. It was not brought about by a shortage of prey so much as the beach where the kayakers were camped was a popular camping spot for kayakers and feeding the wolves I gather was a common and perhaps popular activity by camping kayakers. Having said all that, Vargas Is is pretty small and hard to imagine even small numbers of wolves surviving on deer only.

cheers mooncoon

A very important point - both instances of cited wolf aggression appear to have involved morons feeding them.

Scientists who study wolves are constrained by having to deal with facts and hard evidence. It remains afact that wolf attacks on humans in North America are exceedingly rare. Many more people are killed by bee stings in one year than ever recorded for wolves.

Wolf biologists readily admit that the Eurasian experience with wolves is quite different. Geist insists on projecting Eurasian lore onto North American wolves - they are not the same animal, as even the Eurasian wolves he discusses (in what I have seen quoted) represent diverse populations.

Sorry, I don't buy the Disney version, or the Brothers Grimm version.

I do still look forward to my first sighting in the wild, though.
 
I do still look forward to my first sighting in the wild, though.

I always look forward to sightings................ :D
(yeah, I know, terrible shot :redface:)
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Here is the article Riflechair cites above. I think it should be reproduced in full here. Hopefully no one will object. Fascinating reading.

I can't help thinking that other than their sentimentalism, most of the "wolf-huggers" are probably motivated by another emotion: fear. They do not wish to admit to themselves that wolves will prey on humans given the opportunity, in a way that no other animal I can think of will: as a group acting cooperatively. There is something rather disturbing about being potential prey.

Perhaps the most frightening thing of all is the arrogance and blindness of those who flatter themselves that they are scientifically trained. Those who are blind but think they have better vision than others are truly dangerous.

Wolves: when Ignorance is Bliss

Wolves mustn’t be coddled if we hope to balance them with modern ecosystems—and to avoid becoming prey



by Valerius Geist



Nothing convinces like personal experience! And I too am slave to it. As an academic I confess to this with some distress, because by training, experience and attitude I should be above it. That I am not alone in this habit is of little comfort. And so it was with wolves.



In my field research on mountain sheep, goats, moose etc. I also observed wolves, and my experience with North American wolves matches that of colleagues. Consequently, during my academic career and four years into retirement I thought of wolves as harmless, echoing the words of more experienced colleagues while considering the reports to the contrary from Russia as interesting, but not relevant to an understanding of North American wolves. I trusted my wolf-studying colleagues to have done their homework and I dismissed light-heartedly the experiences of others to the contrary. I was wrong!

I saw my first wolf in the wild early one morning in May 1959, on Pyramid Mountain in Wells Gray Provincial Park, British Columbia. I spotted an ash-gray wolf, with a motley coat, sitting and watching me from a quarter mile away with an eager, attentive look about his dark face. His red tongue was protruding, while golden morning light played on his fur. In the spotting scope his image was crisp and clear. I do not know if my heart skipped a beat, but it well might have. Whose wouldn't?



Five months prior, in early January, I had had an informative brush with a wolf pack just a few miles from that spot. A friend and I were observing moose. We were in the midst of a migration and some two dozen, mostly bulls who had shed antlers, were dispersed over a huge burn. A few were feeding on the tall willows, but most were resting in the knee-deep snow. Suddenly we heard a low, drawn-out moan. When I glanced at the moose I saw that all were standing alert, facing down the valley. We were green then and perplexed about this unearthly sound.



As if to answer us, a high-pitched voice broke in, and then another and another. We realized we were hearing wolves. Within minutes a chorus was underway—and so were the moose. All were hastily moving up the valley and 10 minutes later the moose had vanished. I opted to stay at our lookout while my friend borrowed my rifle and went to search for the wolves. He saw them at dusk as they walked across a small lake, a pack of seven. Try as he may, the rifle would not fire; it had frozen in the great cold. This may have been kind fortune, for the first wolf I shot with that rifle instantly attacked me, but collapsed before reaching me. The second screamed, and that has triggered pack attacks in the past. Had the pack attacked, I would have been minus a friend in minutes. While a large man can subdue an attacking wolf, even strangle it, there is no defense against an attacking pack.



Two years later during my study of Stone’s sheep in northern British Columbia, I had exceptional opportunities to observe wolves in pristine wilderness. My closest neighbors, a trapper family, lived some 40 miles to the west, and the closest settlement of Telegraph Creek was about 80 miles to the north. Timberlines were low, and the wolves spent much time in the open, plainly visible. I watched them for hours on end. These were large, painfully shy wolves that on occasion even panicked over my scent. Though they killed a few sheep, their hunts were largely unsuccessful. However, I began to appreciate their strategies and tenacity as hunters. In traversing the valley I crossed a wolf track about every 50 paces. They were that thorough in scouring the valley for moose.



On rare occasions a wolf would follow my tracks and sit and listen to what I was doing in my cabin at night. (Grizzly bears did that, too.) One evening three wolves began to surround me on a frozen lake. One raced towards me, but scrambled madly to get away once he got downwind of me. Another cut my fresh track, then jumped straight up and raced back. Thus my early experiences with mainland wolves indicated they were shy and cautious. Moreover, they were few compared to the huge number of Osborn’s caribou. I then thought that this was normal. Years later a first doubt arose when a student of mine could hardly find a caribou where I had seen hundreds, and a wolf pack of 43 individuals was recorded where I had observed for years a pack of seven.



Evidently, my experiences with wolves were anomalous, for a decade earlier there had been massive broadcast poisonings of wolves to control rabies. The “pristine wilderness” had been tampered with; I had experienced a “rebound” of ungulate populations after they had been freed from severe predation. When my wife and I tell of forests of antlers as caribou bulls gathered on the Spazisi Plateau for the rut, colleagues look at us as if we came from another age. Maybe we do.



Nothing in my previous studies had prepared me for what I was to experience with wolves on Vancouver Island beginning in 1999. In my student days, in the late 1950s, wolves on Vancouver Island were so scarce that some thought they were extinct. In the early 1970s they reappeared and swept the island. The annual hunter-harvest of black-tailed deer dropped swiftly from about 25,000 to less than 3,000 today. There were incidents of wolves threatening people, and a colleague, treed by a pack, clammed up as nobody believed it. Wolves threatening people? Ridiculous!

According to my colleagues, massive clear-cutting of old-growth forests and the rapid spread and growth of the wolf population caused the carnage. Those who witnessed it tell of deer carcasses everywhere—and then no more deer. The loggers left standing small patches of mature timber as deer winter range. However, wolves, cougars and black bears discovered those patches and cleared out the remaining deer. The clearcuts also led to a population explosion of black bears; some became experts in killing elk calves and deer fawns. Deer are still so few and far between in the mountains that I see about three dozen bears for every deer. However, deer are common in towns, suburbs and about farms, where they are somewhat safe, at least from wolves. The elk population is holding its own, but at a low level compared to the vast amounts of food on the clearcuts. The bulls are huge, with massive antlers, but with a predator-induced silence during the rut. Enough calves perish so that there is little recruitment and we hunters are held to one permit per 40-150 applicants.



I retired to an agricultural area on Vancouver Island in 1995. During walks near our home I explored at all seasons a meadow system associated with dairy, beef and sheep farming. These meadows and adjacent forests contained, year-round, about 120 black-tailed deer and half a dozen large male black bears. In winter came some 60-80 trumpeter swans, as well as large flocks of Canada geese, widgeons, mallards and green-winged teals. Pheasants and ruffed grouse were not uncommon. In the fall of 1995 I saw one track of a lone wolf. I cannot recall seeing any wolf tracks in the four years following. Then in January 1999 my oldest son Karl and I tracked a pair of wolves in the snow, suggesting a breeding pair and thus pack-formation. A pack did indeed arrive that summer. Within three months not a deer was to be seen, or tracked, in these meadows—even during the rut. Using powerful lights we saw deer at night huddling against barns and houses where deer had not been seen previously. For the first time deer moved into our garden and around our house, and the damage to our fruit trees and roses skyrocketed. The trumpeter swans left not to return for four years, until the last of the pack was killed. The geese and ducks avoided the outer meadows and lived only close to the barns. Pheasants and ruffed grouse vanished. The landscape looked empty, as if vacuumed of wildlife.



Wolves attacked and killed or injured dogs, at times right beside their shouting, gesticulating owners. Wolves began following our neighbors when they rode out on horseback. A duck hunter shot one wolf and fatally wounded another as three attacked his dog. They ventured into gardens and under verandas trying to get at dogs, and ran after quads, tractors and motorcycles to attack the accompanying farm dogs. My neighbor warded off three such attacks on his dogs with his boots, and his hired man ran back to a tractor in panic after the wolves chased two dogs under it. One wolf approached within about 15 paces of my wife and a group of eleven visitors that were taking an evening stroll about half a mile from our house. The wolf howled and barked at the people. Our neighbor then went out armed with his dogs, and the wolf, a small female, promptly attacked the dogs and was shot at 50 feet. Nine days later my neighbor killed a second wolf that was following and barking at him. This wolf may have been defending a sheep it had dragged half a mile. These weighed between 60 and 70 lbs, small for wolves, a sign of poor nutrition.



A neighbor raising sheep lost many to wolves, so he acquired five large, sheep-guarding dogs. These dogs and the wolf pack had frequent, night-long barking and howling duels at the forest edge. I observed subsequently, on the evening of October 19th 2002, how the last of the pack, a male, fraternize successfully with the sheep dogs. He kept it up and was eventually shot March 12th 2003 while sitting among these dogs. However, before that he visited us when our female German longhair pointer, Susu, was in heat, and barked at my wife in our doorway. That is, he acted like other male dogs that were attracted to Susu in heat, only bolder.



Wolves had been seen in the neighborhood sitting and observing people; we know from captivity studies that wolves are observation learners. One male approached my wife, my brother-in-law and myself across a quarter-mile of open meadow and stood looking us over for a very long minute about 10 paces away before moving on into the forest. Along with my neighbors, I repeatedly saw wolves showing interest in humans.



However, the worst incident happened about 350 yards from our house when the second misbehaving pack formed. On March 27th, 2007, our neighbors went in the morning to inspect their dairy cattle and pastures. Their old dog ran ahead of them. Just as they entered the forest five wolves attacked the dog. My neighbor grabbed a cedar branch and advanced on the wolves, which turned towards him snarling. His wife jumped into the caboose of their excavator that happened to be nearby. My neighbor's energetic counter attack freed the dog, and intimidated all but one wolf that advanced on him snarling. However, he too withdrew, even if reluctantly. While my neighbor ran home to get a gun, his wife ran to us, shouting for me to get a rifle. We did not see the wolves, though they were sighted briefly in the evening, and a neighbor walking his dog had an encounter with two wolves about a mile away. He was able to chase them away. The following morning our neighbors took a rifle along during their inspection trip of their property. The wolf pack promptly went for them again and my neighbor shot the most aggressive one, a male weighing 74 lbs. I saw the neighbors’ cattle, spooked by a wolf, crash through fences while fleeing for the security of their barn. I found two of the three cattle killed and eaten by wolves; the third was severely injured about the genitals, udder and haunches and had to be put down. I saw the docked tails, slit ears and wounded hocks on the dairy cows. Our neighbor's hired man saw from a barn a wolf attacking a heifer with a newborn calf. He raced out and put the calf on his quad. As he ran to the barn the wolf ran alongside, lunging at the calf – and right into the barn! A predator control officer was called and 13 wolves were removed within a mile of our house from the first, and four from the second misbehaving pack.



That “tameness,” that “hanging around,” that increasing boldness and inquisitiveness, is the wolf’s way of exploring its potential prey, and the strength of its potential enemies. Coyotes targeting children in urban parks act in virtually the same manner. Two wolves in June 2000 severely injured a camper on Vargas Island just off the coast of Vancouver Island. These wolves became even tamer before the attack, as they nipped at the clothing of campers, licked their exposed skin and ate hotdogs from their hands. Our observations here suggested that wolves, attracted to habitations by the scarcity of prey, shift to dogs and livestock, but also increasingly, though cautiously, explore humans, before mounting a first, clumsy attack.



I reported such at a Wildlife Society conference on Sept. 27th 2005 in Madison, Wisconsin, in an invited paper on habituation of wildlife. That was about six weeks before wolves killed Kenton Carnegie on November 8th in northern Saskatchewan. I subsequently became involved along with Marc McNay from Alaska and Brent Patterson from Ontario, investigating this incident for Kenton's parents. Also, a book manuscript on wolves in Russia came across my desk, written by an American linguist stationed in Moscow, Will Graves. It had integrity, and I proposed to edit it and find a publisher. Detselig in Calgary published Wolves in Russia: Anxiety through the Ages, in April 2007. We included into Will's book as appendix A the English translation of Mikhail P. Pavlov's chapter 12 of The Wolf in Game Management. This work had caused howls of outrage by environmentalists when translated into Norwegian.



Then a review of the Russian wolf experiences by Professor Christian Stubbe in Germany vindicated Will Graves' writing. In the meantime Italian and French historians published papers and books detailing how thousands of people had died in earlier centuries from wolf attacks. Some historians rightly asked the question, how did North American scientists ever conclude that wolves were harmless and no threat to people? We now know the answer: In the absence of personal experience or sound language competence, they chose to disregard, even ridicule, the accumulated experience of others from Russia, France, Italy, Germany, Finland, Greenland, Sweden, Iran, Kazakhstan, India, Afghanistan, Korea, and Japan.



Is it not time we paid attention in order to discover how to manage wolves so as to have both, security and abundant wildlife?



The absolutely precious lesson from our North American experience with wolves in the 20th century is that at low wolf-to-prey ratios wolves grow into very large, shy specimens that shun humans, while greatly enriching our landscape and quality of life. Control will be seen as essential to maintain wolves and robust big game populations and minimize intrusions by wolves into human settlements.



There is a French saying that he who desires a beautiful park must have a very sharp ax, and a heart of stone. We should heed it—for the sake of elk, elk hunters, the wolves themselves, and for the future of wildlife conservation in North America.





Widely renowned authority on the world’s deer, Valerius Geist is professor emeritus of environmental science at the University of Calgary, an award winning author and, among others, a recipient of the Elk Foundation’s Olaus Murie Award in 2003.
 
I'm either ignorant, dumb, and happy or the 'threat' people are worried about nearly doesn't exist. I work in some of Canada's most remote areas, alone, and on foot much of the day. It's prime Grizzly country (my job since summer has focused on the north eastern corner of BC), and I fly from site to site and work solo. I see wolves all the time, have had them cross my own tracks while I was landed at a site for only a brief period, and I'm typically unarmed. I have zero concerns too, and the wolves I encounter are as wild as they come, same for the Grizzlies in the area naturally. Of course there is Blackbear too.

I do have a carbine I keep in my machine sometimes, and consider doing a fresh ATC for my .475 revolver but likely won't get around to it. I'm not saying never to be concerned, but I am saying I spend more days in company of Wolves and wilderness than at home up north lately and I know I have 10,000x the chance of being hit by a car in the small town where I live than being attacked by Wolves. I like Wolves, and I hunt Wolves too (with modest success, one to date) but I don't think we need to persecute or exterminate them. That's the same ignorant attitude one poster in the beginning of this thread pointed out was what happened to Grizzlies in the US. We don't have a Wolf problem, I think we as humans have the problem with nature and have become very comfortable living in nearly predatorless conditions over the last century.

I see Ontario's example as case in point, Wolves have only mayyyybe just come back to southern areas in that province (though very likely not, misidentified Coyotes is more likely) and guys already talk about 'Wasting them' on sight!

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Wolves

I firmly believe that Geist is correct in his assessment of wolf behaviour.What the so called wolf experts fail to recognise in their comparison of North American to European wolf/human interactions is this:Since the first settlers arrived in both Canada and the US almost every individual walking the woods was ARMED.With the history of Europe behind them woodsmen and farmers shot wolves on sight and this continued into the 20th century.Wolves developed a well earned fear and respect for humans,and interactions were few.Today the forests are full of unarmed hikers,tree planters and campers whose vision of wolves is coloured by Disney and the idea that predation is not a natural phenomena.It takes little imagination to see where this will eventually lead,as wolves are probably the most opportunistic predator of all.I'm not calling for wolf culls,they live around me and I have seen their sign many times while hunting.But I am armed and a wolf that I consider opportunistic will get a bullet! Mur
 
I see Ontario's example as case in point, Wolves have only mayyyybe just come back to southern areas in that province (though very likely not, misidentified Coyotes is more likely) and guys already talk about 'Wasting them' on sight!

There's no questioning or debating whether they're here. They've been spotted, killed, photographed, reported, and just as with the cougar the ministry acknowledging their presence.

There's clear distinctions in appearances and sizes. I know the one I saw was about 200 yards(and can see it very clearly through binos) while bow hunting, was near peterborough. And didn't look at all much different then the one you posted in the other thread.

I completely agree that there's times where they're misidentified, because we have tonnes of coyotes and sometimes very large ones at that, but that doesn't account to the clear-cut cases of wolves being here.

There's simply not large amounts of them compared to the western provinces. A few here and there isn't a big deal, and most of them are in the northern parts of the province, but doesn't mean they don't venture a couple hours south.

I'm sure they don't go too far south and head back up, or a lot of the time people just shooting on sight(which is what usually hear of). Which is definitely overreacting, unless something was actually in danger.
 
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I firmly believe that Geist is correct in his assessment of wolf behaviour.What the so called wolf experts fail to recognise in their comparison of North American to European wolf/human interactions is this:Since the first settlers arrived in both Canada and the US almost every individual walking the woods was ARMED.With the history of Europe behind them woodsmen and farmers shot wolves on sight and this continued into the 20th century.Wolves developed a well earned fear and respect for humans,and interactions were few.Today the forests are full of unarmed hikers,tree planters and campers whose vision of wolves is coloured by Disney and the idea that predation is not a natural phenomena.It takes little imagination to see where this will eventually lead,as wolves are probably the most opportunistic predator of all.I'm not calling for wolf culls,they live around me and I have seen their sign many times while hunting.But I am armed and a wolf that I consider opportunistic will get a bullet! Mur
In Scandinavia and most other parts of Europe, wolves were hunted, shot, speared, poisoned and largely extirpated over centuries. Eurasian wolves have far more reason to fear man than North American wolves that have encountered far more sparse human settlement and far less human predation .. of them.

I do not doubt that wolves were more of a problem before people had effective weapons, but in most of Europe, wolves are being re-introduced and protected, as a top predator that existed for countless millennia.

As I noted before, European wolves and Asian wolves are different populations and species. To take information (much of which seems anecdotal) from different locales half a globe away, and apply them to North American wolves, when North American data flat out contradicts those data, is dubious at best.

No mainstream biologist I am aware of buys into the "wolf as a threat" story, and the absence of any numbers of documented cases of wolf predation of humans is compelling evidence that Geist is just plain wrong. He seems a lone voice, and that makes me a skeptic. I also note that he appears to have no credentials in research on wolves.
 
I think most of the 'debate" is based on our own limited experiences, and the limited perspective that comes with it. That is fair enough. We all believe what we think we know.

I believe that all wolves are the same critter in the whole circumpolar distribution that they currently inhabit. Only local circumstances vary. I think that wolves are very good at learning and at both avoiding trouble and exploiting new opportunities.

I don't doubt Ardent's experience with wilderness wolves as fascinating and harmless creatures, and I don't doubt Geist's analysis that wolves habituated to environments settled by humans are a threat to humans and to the livestock and wild game that we value more than wolves.

Why the polarization of opinion?? I have to conclude that we all have lived a little too long in our own little worlds, and are not open enough to other possibilities.

My own experience with wolves is limited. I have spent a fair bit of time in "wolf country". I have observed them several times in Saskatchewan and in the Yukon. I have been stalked by a lone wolf, I have killed one wolf. I appreciate wolves as a top predator, and believe that they are a key indicator species that denotes a healthy ecosystem. But I also think that sometimes they are over populated in some areas, and need to be managed.
So, I can only conclude that those who can't see the value of wolves as an essential part of a wilderness ecosystem, and those who think that wolves can do no harm are both limited by a lack of openness to the wide range of possibilities that a wolf represents. They are fascinating, complex and powerful creatures. They belong in the wild world that we share. But if we think that we are not on their menu we are full of the worst kind of hubris.
 
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