Wolf Experience on Vanc Isle - Lesson

[Ardent]

Try walking or quading from lease to lease sometime, it might give you a different outlook.

I do, daily. Half our headers are too tight to fly into, and I hike NE BC's no air access areas after I get out of my helicopter. Wolves are the least of my worries, I'm a thousand times more worried about breaking my leg than wildlife despite it being unbelievably abundant.

 

[rangebob]

I wish there were wolves in Southern Ontario so I could shoot them.

I was at a KFC in the GreaterTorontoArea in August 2011 that had a dozen pussy cats outside. Apparently people had been feeding the little feral cats. When I mentioned this to the store owner, he commented that he didn't like it because there are coyotes in the area that were eating dogs, and cats, and eyeing babies. Someone official had been warning homeowners, storeowners, and construction workers in the area.

 

[USP]

I was at a KFC in the GreaterTorontoArea in August 2011 that had a dozen pussy cats outside. Apparently people had been feeding the little feral cats. When I mentioned this to the store owner, he commented that he didn't like it because there are coyotes in the area that were eating dogs, and cats, and eyeing babies. Someone official had been warning homeowners, storeowners, and construction workers in the area.

Where I hunt rabbits..or should say where there use to be rabbits ive seen Coyote paw prints similar to Ardents photo above in size. There are some huge Coyotes I have seen in my area. I do not believe they are wolves because of thier colour and skull shape. I have heard some say that theres increasing amounts of hybrids between wolves and coyotes.

 

[H4831]

A lot of good posts, people relating what they have seen. This is so much better than someone telling us what he has read.
I agree with Ardent. I too, am not a bit afraid of wolves in a wilderness area, or bears either, unless you get in contact with a sow grizzly with cubs. This was exactly what the old time trappers and prospectors of northern BC told me well over half a century ago.
Wolves are a tremendously efficient predator and when they over populate an area, like most of BC is now, they can really reduce the game population. The official figures for California bighorn sheep in the Shulap mountains, west of the Fraser River, was for years about 240 sheep. There are now about 40. It seems that wolves and cougar are the greatest reason for the loss, but there is a human killing element of them also.
With game that is specialized to certain areas they can live on, like sheep and goats, predators can wipe out localized populations. Mountain goats are very area specific, with only a very few of the many mountains in BC suitable for, and having, goat populations.
I think if nothing is done to cull the predators and control the illegitimate human killing, we will lose localized populations of some of our best and most exotic game.
Eventually the game will be killed down to where there is not enough feed for the large predators and they will die off, allowing deer, moose and elk to make a comback. Many areas of goats and maybe caribou, probably won't come back.

 

[H4831]

Here is an article that is on the Castanet computer page.
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Predators, specifically wolves, continue to be a major source of concern for cattle ranchers in the province.

Kevin Boon, General Manager of the B.C. Cattlemen's Association, says the problem is so bad in some regions that cattle ranchers are selling their herds, giving up their rangeland and leaving the industry.

Boon says cattle loss at the hands of predators is the single biggest loss felt by ranchers.

"Ranchers expect to lose four to five per cent of their herd each year. Those losses are built into the cost of doing business," says Boon.

"Some ranchers are being hit with a loss of 15 to 20 per cent of their cattle. Some ranchers are quitting and rangeland leases are being given up because of wolves."

The association is in the midst of the second, of what Boon hopes is an annual, survey of cattle ranchers on the problem of predators.

While this year's survey goes until the end of January, 2012, Boon says results so far are similar to those from a survey conducted in 2010.


Photo: Trevor Rockliffe
A rancher at the Spiyu Ranch, near Kamloops, works a heard in this file photo."The problem is no worse, but it's no better either."

Boon says the wolf population in the province is out of control.

"We need to reduce the population."

He says it's not just a matter of taking out one problem wolf but, "you need to take out the entire pack."

Two pilot programs, which targeted the control of predators, have been in place since 2004.

Under these programs Boon says ranchers who lost cattle to predators could apply to have those wolves removed.

He says the association lobbied the province in the Spring to make the program permanent.

"The province instead reorganized the conservation department who are now in charge of removing the problem animals."

Boon says the association has been working with ranchers and cattle producers in an effort to teach 'best management practices' when it comes to predators.

He says they are being taught how to trap on their own land which is within their rights in an effort to protect their herd.

Boon also says the association needs to work more closely with the trappers association in an effort to try and concentrate on over-populated areas.

 

[Mur]

In Scandinavia and most other parts of Europe, wolves were hunted, shot, speared, poisoned and largely extirpated over centuries. Eurasian wolves have far more reason to fear man than North American wolves that have encountered far more sparse human settlement and far less human predation .. of them.

I do not doubt that wolves were more of a problem before people had effective weapons, but in most of Europe, wolves are being re-introduced and protected, as a top predator that existed for countless millennia.

As I noted before, European wolves and Asian wolves are different populations and species. To take information (much of which seems anecdotal) from different locales half a globe away, and apply them to North American wolves, when North American data flat out contradicts those data, is dubious at best.

No mainstream biologist I am aware of buys into the "wolf as a threat" story, and the absence of any numbers of documented cases of wolf predation of humans is compelling evidence that Geist is just plain wrong. He seems a lone voice, and that makes me a skeptic. I also note that he appears to have no credentials in research on wolves.

Dr. Geist is the premiere large ungulate biologist in North America,and has been observing wolf/ungulate predator/prey relationships for decades.Did you not read his personal observations?Most "main stream"wolf biologists are apologists for the wolf,and refuse to accept the changes that are happening in the wolf/human relationship.Habituation and lack of fear of humans will lead to predation,as has already happened twice in the last several years,in Saskatchewan and last year in Alaska.I have no fear of wolves but I do have a respect for all North American predators.I note that there is no history of wolf predation on humans aside from the history of the FNs and they have a healthy respect for wolves,dating from pre firearms days.What Dr.Geist is saying is that we are entering into a new era of habituation and that he feels that there will be conflicts.Based on the fact that the number of predatory incidents are rising,and all are recent I agree with him. Mur

 

[geologist]

I have spent a fair bit of time in the Canadian bush and in all of those miles on foot, have only seen two wolves. One in the bush of NW Ontario and another in the NWT. Neither were threatening.

TBS if any show no fear and approach too close I will turn them inside out (thank goodness for ATCs).

 

[Ardent]

Dr. Geist is the premiere large ungulate biologist in North America,and has been observing wolf/ungulate predator/prey relationships for decades.Did you not read his personal observations?Most "main stream"wolf biologists are apologists for the wolf,and refuse to accept the changes that are happening in the wolf/human relationship.Habituation and lack of fear of humans will lead to predation,as has already happened twice in the last several years,in Saskatchewan and last year in Alaska.I have no fear of wolves but I do have a respect for all North American predators.I note that there is no history of wolf predation on humans aside from the history of the FNs and they have a healthy respect for wolves,dating from pre firearms days.What Dr.Geist is saying is that we are entering into a new era of habituation and that he feels that there will be conflicts.Based on the fact that the number of predatory incidents are rising,and all are recent I agree with him. Mur

The young third year geology guy in Sask was almost certainly killed by a black bear. The investigators that visited the site determined it to be bear, only a scared RCMP officer and the colleagues of the fellow stated it was wolves because they saw tracks and saw eyes in the dark when recovering the body. It is not abnormal for predators to visit a kill site rapidly after the attack. Geist and another researcher, who did not visit the site, were the ones that concluded wolves. I know a fellow who shot a wolf 'on the charge' but he was calling Moose and brought in wolves- they were more surprised than he when they found out he was human I'm betting. I have as much chance of being struck by lightening as being attacked and I'm out there more days than I'm at home.

 

[Ol' Smokey]

Dr. Geist is the premiere large ungulate biologist in North America,and has been observing wolf/ungulate predator/prey relationships for decades.Did you not read his personal observations?Most "main stream"wolf biologists are apologists for the wolf,and refuse to accept the changes that are happening in the wolf/human relationship.Habituation and lack of fear of humans will lead to predation,as has already happened twice in the last several years,in Saskatchewan and last year in Alaska.I have no fear of wolves but I do have a respect for all North American predators.I note that there is no history of wolf predation on humans aside from the history of the FNs and they have a healthy respect for wolves,dating from pre firearms days.What Dr.Geist is saying is that we are entering into a new era of habituation and that he feels that there will be conflicts.Based on the fact that the number of predatory incidents are rising,and all are recent I agree with him. Mur

So you prefer to believe him (and his stance that seems to be shared by no other mainstream biologists), and not the community of researchers who have been intensively studying and track wolves for many decades? Why? Because he agrees with your preconceived notions?

I remain convinced that he is simply wrong. The statistics remain that wolf predation on humans in North America is practically non-existent. Many of the wolf "attacks" on humans appear to involve wolves that have been habituated by feeding. There is no "trend" whatsoever in predatory attacks (unless you consider a single incident to be a trend).

Feed any top predator and you will cause problems. Anyone here in favour of feeding bears? How many people have been injured or killed by bears in North America? Surprisingly few, considering bears are much more prevalent, much more habituated to human presence and are easily seen in tourist areas, garbage dumps, and other human locales where they find easy access to food.

Wolves, bears, and wild cats are to be respected, and caution needs to be exercised in any encounter. I certainly would feel more comfortable being armed in any encounter, but by the same token, don't feel threatened in wilderness areas.

I also have no interest in gunning down wildlife for ####s and giggles. If it is not a threat to me or my livestock, and I don't want to eat it, I leave it alone, and appreciate the privilege of seeing a remarkable creation of Nature.

I honestly don't get the folks who view all sorts of creatures as threatening and needing destruction - they remind me of the neurotic anti gun types that fear inanimate objects.

 

[none]

Here's a friendly one in saskatchewan,looks like it just wants to be petted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Man-wolves.jpg

 

[Ardent]

And I can refer you to pics of deer actually attacking people, they've even killed them, a lot more than wolves.

Ever ran into a Bull Moose in the rut? You've got a lot more to worry about from the humble Moose than any Wolf.

My passion is hunting Africa. A place where if you're in the wild parts you take your .375 H&H when you step off the trail to take a leak. Spending even just a week in open Africa be it the Okavango, Zambezi etc will give a lot of perspective on how safe our woods are. As someone who works where the toothy stuff in Canada lives I don't believe there's zero risk, but I do believe you'll see most of the concern from guys who aren't out there much. We're afraid of what we don't know, I've met a very old trapper who lives alone north west of Fort Nelson and only has a .22. I like guns, and carry and use them and don't think it's a bad idea. But we need to keep it realistic here, some guys on here would have you think it's Jurassic Park out there! If I were offered money to spend a week unarmed in prime Wolf and Grizzly country, I would. It's called a shift at work.

 

[none]

And I can refer you to pics of deer actually attacking people, they've even killed them, a lot more than wolves.

Ever ran into a Bull Moose in the rut? You've got a lot more to worry about from the humble Moose than any Wolf.

My passion is hunting Africa. A place where if you're in the wild parts you take your .375 H&H when you step off the trail to take a leak. Spending even just a week in open Africa be it the Okavango, Zambezi etc will give a lot of perspective on how safe our woods are. As someone who works where the toothy stuff in Canada lives I don't believe there's zero risk, but I do believe you'll see most of the concern from guys who aren't out there much. We're afraid of what we don't know, I've met a very old trapper who lives alone north west of Fort Nelson and only has a .22. I like guns, and carry and use them and don't think it's a bad idea. But we need to keep it realistic here, some guys on here would have you think it's Jurassic Park out there! If I were offered money to spend a week unarmed in prime Wolf and Grizzly country, I would. It's called a shift at work.

And people drown in their bathtubs.
The photo is from the same place in sask the guy was killed except taken 4 days before his death.Saying wolves couldn't have killed him because all the other workers only saw eyes in the dark isn't being realistic.No,i'm not worried about getting killed by wolves here either but i'd be foolish to go try and pet/feed them.And yes i've been run off by a cow moose with its calf.Seeing grizzlies is normal here as they tend to hang out where the moose are as well.

 

[H4831]

The young third year geology guy in Sask was almost certainly killed by a black bear. The investigators that visited the site determined it to be bear, only a scared RCMP officer and the colleagues of the fellow stated it was wolves because they saw tracks and saw eyes in the dark when recovering the body. It is not abnormal for predators to visit a kill site rapidly after the attack. Geist and another researcher, who did not visit the site, were the ones that concluded wolves. I know a fellow who shot a wolf 'on the charge' but he was calling Moose and brought in wolves- they were more surprised than he when they found out he was human I'm betting. I have as much chance of being struck by lightening as being attacked and I'm out there more days than I'm at home.

The investigation of that killing was an absolute cover up. The majority on the investigation wanted to prove it was not wolves that killed him. One or two on the investigation used common sense and said it had to have been wolves.
I forget all the details, but the outstanding evidence against it being a bear, was that it was after freeze up and snow was on the ground, in northern Saskatchewan. The balck bears were all in their dens, sound asleep, like they had been for nearly a month.
Everyone testified as seeing wolf tracks, but not one person giving evidence said they saw a bear track.
The people who didn't want the wolves to be blamed, said the wolf tracks covered up the bear tracks.
Hogwash.

 

[bearkilr]

The young third year geology guy in Sask was almost certainly killed by a black bear. The investigators that visited the site determined it to be bear, only a scared RCMP officer and the colleagues of the fellow stated it was wolves because they saw tracks and saw eyes in the dark when recovering the body. It is not abnormal for predators to visit a kill site rapidly after the attack. Geist and another researcher, who did not visit the site, were the ones that concluded wolves. I know a fellow who shot a wolf 'on the charge' but he was calling Moose and brought in wolves- they were more surprised than he when they found out he was human I'm betting. I have as much chance of being struck by lightening as being attacked and I'm out there more days than I'm at home.

This incident happened Nov. 8 in Northern SK. It would be extremely unlikely that a black bear would be active in this area during that time of year.

 

[Ol' Smokey]

With all the usual reservations about Wikipedia, here is the article on the "wolf kill".

A lot of information to digest, and the inescapable conclusion that the attribution of the kill to wolves is more than a little dubious.

The outstanding nugget of information for me was that fact that the body was dragged about 400 m from the kill site - something wolves are not known to do, but typical of bears.

The bear biologist thought it was a bear attack, BTW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenton_Joel_Carnegie_wolf_attack

 

[Ardent]

This incident happened Nov. 8 in Northern SK. It would be extremely unlikely that a black bear would be active in this area during that time of year.

I've seen Black Bears scavenging in Nov, and lots of tracks in snow at 57-58 degrees north in BC, early Nov bears aren't even necessarily denned up yet. I also saw a Black Bear out of his den and browsing in January last year at about 57 degrees north, and it was still fairly cold. The injuries on the geo student were more consistent with bear, and his body was displaced a long distance as well as mentioned above. I think an odd wolf encounter in days previous and nerves made people jump to conclusions, nobody saw wolves, only eyes. I don't doubt predators were watching the carrion and it doesn't surprise me. I also wouldn't be surprised if wolves did eat some of him, though my non-professional opinion is a black bear attack is infinitely more likely. Either way this is a gun website and a gun may have saved him, likely would have even.

 

[elker]

A few coyotes killed a Canadian singer years ago. I am pretty sure someone here would tell us she was killed by a black bear or something if there were not those witnesses

 

[Kenny_G2]

Geist long ago said that the first thing a wolf should do when it sees a human is turn and run. He also said that any wolf that lingers and looks is sizing you up and weighing the odds.

I had a wolf take a run at me last weekend while deer hunting. I was doing a drive and making noise. I saw it at 50 yards and it came to within 15 yards and stopped and stared at me. My first thought was that he was sizing me up, he didn't even retreat once I yelled at him. The 7mm08 settled it nicely in my favour. If he had turned and ran he would have been left alone.

 

[Highwind]

Everyone has an opinion, and some of the posts here have little evidence to support that opinion. So I'll take a crack at stating an opinion, and try to substantiate it based on experience.
1. Was out caribou hunting in NT and was skinning some caribou and a really, really large male black bear appeared at the site. He had a white patch on his chest. First off, I know that he was definitely, the largest black bear I had ever seen in my life, and I estimated he was about 600 pounds. The bear came up to the area where we were doing our skinning and gutting. The bear was hungry and wanted some meat. So I scared him off a couple of times and realized that he'd be back so I placed some of the shot up meat in the spot he'd been standing. He returned in a few minutes to the same spot and I could hear him crunching on bone and eating the meat. I figured the bear had been given enough meat to satisfy his hunger, but he wanted more. Every time I bent down to get back at the skinning, the bear would take a couple of advance steps towards me and the caribou. He was about 35 yards away from me.

I called out to my Dene friend ( lifetime trapper) who was a couple of hundred yards away, and let him know what was going on.
He said your going to have to shot him, he's an older bear and has learned to come to where he heard the shooting, and he's determined to get that caribou your skinning. My Dene friend was working on a caribou himself.

I wasn't getting my skinning job done, so eventually I had to shoot him. What I found out about bears in the NWT (and most likely everywhere else) is that, the communities are far apart and the bears are completely wild. They are always dispatched quickly when they do come into a community as they will kill and eat dogs and are considered to be unpredictable. I suspect that the degree of wildness in an animal like a bear is a constant factor, and ought not be taken lightly.

When I walk in the bush I carry a gun, be it for deer, moose, rabbits, bush chickens, geese or ducks. I consider it a safety factor. As I've experienced first hand that a bear has the serious potential to attack. Do I shoot every bear I happen to see.? No, but I respect the bears place in the wild. I'm not a bear hunter but could be if I wanted to be. And for those that do hunt bear, that's ok in my books.

Wolves are wild and need to be considered fully capable of dispatching their quarry quickly and effectively. Given that they travel in packs, they must be respected at all times. Generally they will stay away from humans but have the potential to attack a person for food. So common sense tells me to carry a gun in the bush. As I have meet to packs of wolves in my time, but they disappeared as quickly as they appeared. Yotes, are a menace to newborn deer and livestock such as sheep. But I've seen them bothering cattle too. They have the potential to establish a pack, and to attack a child, a pet and possibly an adult.

I asked a farmer one time if I could hunt his swamp on his far. He looked at me and said. You can hunt it on one condition. If you see and Yotes, shoot em. So I said ok... He recognizes the potential harm that they are doing to his new-born lifestock and knows that the Yotes will hunt rabbits, deer, small livestock, pets, and have the potential against humans too.

So I carry a gun in the bush. First to put food on the table, and second to deal with animals that could endanger my life. But I keep in mind that these animals have a place in creation and we must have proper respect and understanding for them.

 

[geologist]

What I found out about bears in the NWT (and most likely everywhere else) is that, the communities are far apart and the bears are completely wild. They are always dispatched quickly when they do come into a community as they will kill and eat dogs and are considered to be unpredictable. I suspect that the degree of wildness in an animal like a bear is a constant factor, and ought not be taken lightly.

It was like that in the arctic tundra of the remote and unpopulated Russian Far East. I was wearing bear bells on traverse and the Russian geos told me to get rid of them as their sound would attract the barrenland grizzlies. They had a geo killed and eaten by a grizzly in 1992 so they knew what had to be done.