Hulls identification and recipe help

[ecotopia]

Hi there, I'm new in the whole shotgun reloading thing and I bought a Lee load all 2 at wholesale sport. I've been trying without sucess to identify my ####load of hulls I've been collecting since a couple of months. I wanna do thing right, so that's why I'm a little bit concern about powder charge and everything. (Yes I have a shotgun reloaders manual but couldnt identify the hulls since they seems to be too recent to be in the book)

I bough those wad :

and I wanna make load of buck shot and later slug with those hulls:

I already bought the longshot powder from Hodgdon. anyone could help me by pointing me the right website or PDF that will have the combinaison (Recipe) of
-western wad WT12
-Hodgdon Longshot
-buckshot or slug
-remington hulls or winchester.

thanks

 

[digitalblue]

The Win super speed hulls load using win AA-HS data; just keep in mind that they're considered junk hulls, not really worth reloading. You might as well toss the slug hulls as they are roll crimped.

The WT12 wads are the same thing as the WAA12 and are cross comparable.

There is no published slug or buckshot data for longshot as far as I'm aware. You probably should have invested in some HS-6, Blue dot, Herco or 800-X...

 

[ben hunchak]

I realize that you have alot of hulls but, you would be better off using Rem.Premier, Win. AA, or Fed. Gold medal, as most of the data will be for those empties. It is much better to have all the same hulls for what you are going to reload, not a mish mash, as you will be forever chasing the crimp as they will all prolly require diff. settings or worse yet, dif. wads.

 

[ecotopia]

You might as well toss the slug hulls as they are roll crimped.

could I crimp them to a 6 or 8 star? I'm not reloading to have good grouping or precision, its mosly to hurt to my shoulder and destroy stuff I bring to the range, just for fun.

 

[digitalblue]

could I crimp them to a 6 or 8 star? I'm not reloading to have good grouping or precision, its mosly to hurt to my shoulder and destroy stuff I bring to the range, just for fun.

I've never tried to crimp any hulls that were previously roll crimped but I'm fairly sure the fired length is under 2-3/4".

Have you tried going to your local trap/skeet range for hulls?

If plinking ammo is your goal, I recommend just buying some cheap target shells(Remington gun club) and shooting them before loading. I do have some un-published buckshot loads for these remington gun/sts hulls if your interested.

 

[3macs1]

I've never tried to crimp any hulls that were previously roll crimped but I'm fairly sure the fired length is under 2-3/4".

Have you tried going to your local trap/skeet range for hulls?

If plinking ammo is your goal, I recommend just buying some cheap target shells(Remington gun club) and shooting them before loading. I do have some un-published buckshot loads for these remington gun/sts hulls if your interested.

Wait now is this the digitalblue that said this on another trend I quote

Using AA data in an STS/Nitro 27/GC hull is a very bad idea!

It sure is but it is OK to reload buckshot of all things to unpublished data.
You guys really scare me or I am nuts.When I do buckshot it is one shell at a time with everything checked twice on the scale seperately and never a deviation from the published data.

 

[hk33ka1]

Roll crimped slug hulls will star crimp tight enough for buckshot but not usually for smaller birdshot.

 

[digitalblue]

It sure is but it is OK to reload buckshot of all things to unpublished data.
You guys really scare me or I am nuts.When I do buckshot it is one shell at a time with everything checked twice on the scale seperately and never a deviation from the published data.

I am using 8 pellets of 00 buck(exactly 1oz) with data intended for a 1-1/8oz load running at 6000 PSI. The powder is more than suitable for buckshot. There is no reasonable payload (under 1-1/8oz) that will cause this combination to overpressure. To top it off, I'm firing these out of a 3-1/2 chambered gun; that means there's 8000 PSI of headroom. There is no way in hell this load is going to blow up my shotgun and I'd like anyone reading this to convince me otherwise.

With that being said, I'm not blindly substituting components, I've obviously done my research. After a bit more pattern/function testing, I'm planning have the load pressure tested.

As per the post you quoted; it is stupid to blindly swap data between two hulls. There is nothing wrong with swapping data if you know what pressures to expect.

Take everything with a grain of salt, especially so-called "published data". One published load involves 49gr of Blue dot under a lee 1oz slug. Because it's published, it must be foolproof/safe, right?

 

[ecotopia]

so what is the worst thing to do?

-overload with too much powder? (yes i know it will split the barrel and blow my face)
-under load the shell with not enough powder? less velocity?
-wrong seating depth of the wad witch mean, it will leave an empty volume for the powder to transfer the energy on building pressure in that space, instead of transferring the energy to the "wad/weight/lead" ?

 

[digitalblue]

so what is the worst thing to do?

-overload with too much powder? (yes i know it will split the barrel and blow my face)
-under load the shell with not enough powder? less velocity?
-wrong seating depth of the wad witch mean, it will leave an empty volume for the powder to transfer the energy on building pressure in that space, instead of transferring the energy to the "wad/weight/lead" ?

I can't recommend experimenting if you're not familiar with shotshell reloading. Get yourself a manual and use published/safe data.

- Overcharging will blow the gun.

- A small charge will result in low velocity; if it's small enough, it could end up lodging the wad in the barrel.

- There is no specific "seating depth" for a wad, there is recommended seating pressure. The wad goes all the way against the powder, with no spaces. Use the press to slightly compress the wad cushion and it's good to go.

 

[3macs1]

I am using 8 pellets of 00 buck(exactly 1oz) with data intended for a 1-1/8oz load running at 6000 PSI. The powder is more than suitable for buckshot. There is no reasonable payload (under 1-1/8oz) that will cause this combination to overpressure. To top it off, I'm firing these out of a 3-1/2 chambered gun; that means there's 8000 PSI of headroom. There is no way in hell this load is going to blow up my shotgun and I'd like anyone reading this to convince me otherwise.

With that being said, I'm not blindly substituting components, I've obviously done my research. After a bit more pattern/function testing, I'm planning have the load pressure tested.

As per the post you quoted; it is stupid to blindly swap data between two hulls. There is nothing wrong with swapping data if you know what pressures to expect.

Take everything with a grain of salt, especially so-called "published data". One published load involves 49gr of Blue dot under a lee 1oz slug. Because it's published, it must be foolproof/safe, right?

No I accept the fact that if it is published in a manual by a reputable powder manufacturer the load has been tested and is safe to use. Has worked for me for 46 years.
I never experiment and never will, with some research I can always find tested loads for what I am looking for.
If you can just switch in buck shot with no changes why do they go through the trouble of testing and developing buck shot loads only.I load both 12 and 10ga buckshot but all BP data
You talk about your loads are 6000 psi, you are guessing that and there is no where in canada to test them as you say you are going to do.
The 8000 factor of safety you have in the 3 1/2" gun and there is no way you are going to blow it up.Well maybe not from over pressure loads but you are there for underpressure.
The average factory 1 1 /8" target loads runs 9000-10,000 psi at 6000 or less you run the risk of blowing it up from the opposite problem if pump or semi.
Take a hard look at this camo 3 1/2" winchester X3 semi, that blew apart.
Winchester determined the 1st shell fired was too light but cycled the action however never cleared the barrel totally, when the trigger was pulled for the second shell game over.
You said to name one way well there is one. I just value my hands and face too much I guess to play with reloads when I don't have to. Old sxs blown in the exchange from a dinged barrel. Doesn't take much.To each their own

 

[3macs1]

I realize that you have alot of hulls but, you would be better off using Rem.Premier, Win. AA, or Fed. Gold medal, as most of the data will be for those empties. It is much better to have all the same hulls for what you are going to reload, not a mish mash, as you will be forever chasing the crimp as they will all prolly require diff. settings or worse yet, dif. wads.

Agree with Ben 100%. Also you should start by finding the loads you are looking for in a reloading manual etc. Then see what you need to put them together rather than gather up a bunch of stuff that may never be used for what you require.
Better to start off on the right foot now than later.

 

[luke s]

If plinking ammo is your goal, I recommend just buying some cheap target shells(Remington gun club) and shooting them before loading. I do have some un-published buckshot loads for these remington gun/sts hulls if your interested.

These are the cheap hulls I use for slug/buckshot. 250 loaded birdshot shells run about $60. They have a plastic base wad, so you can shoot them and reload a few times.

I'm using the wads you have
14.5-15gr of 700x
CCI 209 primers
And 8 "00" pellets which you stack 2x2
Using an 8 star crimp on the load all 2 press and they come out quite nice

Patterns were decent at the range at 25 yards

 

[luke s]

Agree with Ben 100%. Also you should start by finding the loads you are looking for in a reloading manual etc. Then see what you need to put them together rather than gather up a bunch of stuff that may never be used for what you require.
Better to start off on the right foot now than later.

While I agree with you that published data is best, the 5 books I looked into did not have very comprehensive buck data using standard wads

 

[ecotopia]

These are the cheap hulls I use for slug/buckshot. 250 loaded birdshot shells run about $60. They have a plastic base wad, so you can shoot them and reload a few times.

I'm using the wads you have
14.5-15gr of 700x
And 8 "00" pellets which you stack 2x2
Using an 8 star crimp on the load all 2 press and they come out quite nice

Patters were decent at the range at 25 yards

your talking about the winchester super speed xtra like this:

right?

today I cut a new one to compare the wad height, my wad have more space for the bb than the original one, I think it will result in lowering the pressure on my powder if I don't fill it up to the right height(with a slug or 00 buck shot).

anyway I thank you all for the information, what I understand is that every of you follow the recipe by book and I think it's all right. but, I didn't get what I wanted, information on custom load on other type of hulls like the game load from Winchester or the XP3 or the super X. I think that the reason why winchester and other company don't give info on the "cheap" one shot deal hulls is probably because they don't want to get sued by someone who've exploded his face because he was a moron and put to much powder or not enough and double shot his gun. those hulls are made to shot some load why in the hell couldn't you reload them with the proper combinaison.

I will try to find information on how to calculate the pressure being built in the barrel and with my chronograph I will find the perfect match.

 

[luke s]

no I meant remington gun club hulls (cheaper STS version):

ht tp://canada.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/remington-gun-club-target-loads-20-ga-2-3-4-7-8-oz-25-rds.aspx?a=528752

I am not sure about the win super x hulls, if you cut one open, is the base of it plastic or cardboard/paper?? if its paper, I would not reload them because the paper wad can dislodge ending in catastrophe......

to calculate pressure I think you have to have the load tested in a lab, not sure if you can just do theoretical pressure calcs

 

[Lefty Dick]

Try these recipies:

Win AA's 2-3/4"
SR7625, 26gr.
Win 209's
WAA12R wads
12x 00 buck

Win AA's, 2-3/4"
HS 6, 35gr.
Win 209's
WAA12 (white or orange) with petals cut off
9x 00 buck


Win AA's
700x, 21gr.
Fed 209's
Rem SP12 wads
8x00 buck

good luck.

 

[ecotopia]

Try these recipies:

Win AA's 2-3/4"
SR7625, 26gr.
Win 209's
WAA12R wads
12x 00 buck

Win AA's, 2-3/4"
HS 6, 35gr.
Win 209's
WAA12 (white or orange) with petals cut off
9x 00 buck


Win AA's
700x, 21gr.
Fed 209's
Rem SP12 wads
8x00 buck

good luck.

Thanks but there is one problem, I can't find any shop who sale those Win. AA hulls, it's always someone selling them on a random forum that I saw. why does a place like "Sail" or "Le baron" doesnt sale hulls?

 

[ecotopia]

no I meant remington gun club hulls (cheaper STS version):

ht tp://canada.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/remington-gun-club-target-loads-20-ga-2-3-4-7-8-oz-25-rds.aspx?a=528752

I am not sure about the win super x hulls, if you cut one open, is the base of it plastic or cardboard/paper?? if its paper, I would not reload them because the paper wad can dislodge ending in catastrophe......

to calculate pressure I think you have to have the load tested in a lab, not sure if you can just do theoretical pressure calcs

for the pressure calculator :
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RSI&Product_Code=PTIIBT&Category_Code=PT
I'm really considering this tool

for the super x hulls, yeah the base is made of a plastic wad separated from the hulls wall

 

[luke s]

for the 2 posts above: le baron sells win AA's and rem gun club hulls (well loaded ammo). $60 - 75 last I checked.

if the the super x hulls have a separate wad plastic or paper, I wouldnt reload them, but if you must, dont do it more than once....