Your experiences with factory cowboy action ammo in antiques?
- Thread starter swampdog
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The 44-40 "Cowboy" factory Loads I tried were pretty intense.
Though from a manufacturers liability position they should be safe in an antique gun...it would not be a good idea, unless you want to damage a good collectible antique. If you reload, just brew up some rounds at the lowest end of the scale to reduce pressures. There are guys who stomp their feet and get and get all wound up about shooting antique handguns, and how it does not hurt the guns. Shooting an antique will damage the gun eventually and thus reduce the value, unless the gun is in such poor condition that it has no collectible value. In that case then shooting condition would be questionable.
Best advice...reload ammo for your antique and load it to the lowest possible pressure and velocity...try to avoid shooting a ton of ammo through it as wear will be accelerated.
Though from a manufacturers liability position they should be safe in an antique gun...it would not be a good idea, unless you want to damage a good collectible antique. If you reload, just brew up some rounds at the lowest end of the scale to reduce pressures. There are guys who stomp their feet and get and get all wound up about shooting antique handguns, and how it does not hurt the guns. Shooting an antique will damage the gun eventually and thus reduce the value, unless the gun is in such poor condition that it has no collectible value. In that case then shooting condition would be questionable.
Best advice...reload ammo for your antique and load it to the lowest possible pressure and velocity...try to avoid shooting a ton of ammo through it as wear will be accelerated.
well it depends on the antique firearm and the ammo. 
I have shot with 0 problems the winchester 44 Special ammo in SAA Colts in 44 Sp and in S&W DA (the long cylinder models)
That 44 sp is loaded to only like 730 FPS is very mild and nice to shoot simlar to 44 russian alot of guys load 44 Russian to 800 fps and have no problems either so i think that winchester ammo is great stuff.
I used to get it for $31 a box now its like $44 which seems like a rip off to me.
I reload 99% of the time but always have a few boxes of 44 Sp factory ammo around.
I have shot with 0 problems the winchester 44 Special ammo in SAA Colts in 44 Sp and in S&W DA (the long cylinder models)
That 44 sp is loaded to only like 730 FPS is very mild and nice to shoot simlar to 44 russian alot of guys load 44 Russian to 800 fps and have no problems either so i think that winchester ammo is great stuff.
I used to get it for $31 a box now its like $44 which seems like a rip off to me.
I reload 99% of the time but always have a few boxes of 44 Sp factory ammo around.
Dingus, was that .44 Special shot in a reamed out .44 Russian S&W?
I've heard that some shoot the Winchester Cowboy loads out of the S&W DA .44 Russian with the short cylinder (1 7/16"), reamed a bit deeper to handle the longer .44 Special casing. If one can find one of those that has already been reamed, it certainly would become tempting to try the Winchester Cowboy loads as an alternative to reloading Russian brass.
I suppose that the longer cylinder on the later DA Russian might be stronger than the short cylinder. But are both short and long cylinders strong enough to handle the Cowboy loads?
Yes thats right.
ones that i bought that were already set up for 44 sp i never seen a short cylinder one reamed to 44sp but dont see why not as you say the winchester ammo would cycle cept not reloaded with the longer SWC bullets i use they only work in the long strap models. but reloaded with RN SB bullets you would be good to go.
Theres a few around that were set up for 44 sp (long cylinder models) if you wanted to set up a short cylinder gun to do that you could tho alot might frown on you for doing it i say if its your gun do what you want.
If it makes it easyer for you to shoot because you dont reload then at least you get to shoot your gun.
Besides the guns will still shoot 44 Russian anyway.
keep in mind reloading is very easy and just the cost of like 3 boxes of factory ammo can get you some reloading gear.
Lee stuff is great its cheep it works good comes with instructions even a caveman could do it from the pictures.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm learning, I hope.
The S&W .44 Russian certainly sounds like one of the most practical options in antique handguns. I haven't looked at all that many, but most of the ones coming up on the EE look a little rough and well worn. The frames don't look all that substantial to begin with, and most of these guns appear to have seen a lot of use. I'm still hoping to find one in nice condition without breaking the bank.
The S&W .44 Russian certainly sounds like one of the most practical options in antique handguns. I haven't looked at all that many, but most of the ones coming up on the EE look a little rough and well worn. The frames don't look all that substantial to begin with, and most of these guns appear to have seen a lot of use. I'm still hoping to find one in nice condition without breaking the bank.
S&W DAs are great guns but if you want a stronger gun look at the soilid frame guns.
I have a H&R solid frame gun its 5 shooter but in 44 Caliber.
Its a very strong gun.
the H&R American Double action with a 6 inch barrel.
The French 1873s are also strong well made guns with better prices than most.
That webley No 5 in the EE is also a very strong gun being soild frame.
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Yup I can vouch for the strength of these, that one you sold me reamed for .44 russian from original .44 web, handled reloads with 2.8gr's of winchester 231 at 720fps fine.
yes they are strong guns. i got this one below recently its a rare one with such a long barrel i think i will have it set up in 44 Russian as i dont think i ever seen a 44 Webley round or where to get them.
The bore is .430 so are the chamber throats so its perfect to set up to shoot 44 Russian. Has and ex bore to!
The bore is .430 so are the chamber throats so its perfect to set up to shoot 44 Russian. Has and ex bore to!
I shot 60 rounds of Hornady 45 Colt 255gr Cowboy (Trade marked) through an 1873 SAA Reproduction and it reminded me of .45ACP in a 1911 as far as recoil... maybe a bit softer.
The cases are short by about .052 inches compared to all the other cases that I have so if I reload the bullets that I have the OAL will be way short.
The cases are short by about .052 inches compared to all the other cases that I have so if I reload the bullets that I have the OAL will be way short.
You should be able to fire full power factory ammo in the nmodern reproductions no problem. The repros are made for it.
According to COW the .44 webley is the same cartridge as the .442 webley. The cartridge was called .44 webley in north america and .442 webley in UK.
Original specs for .442/.44 webley cartridge was 15 to 19 gr BP and 200/220 gr bullet at approx 600 fps, and the bullet diameter is listed as .436". Interesting that your revolber has a .430" bore.
.44 Russian cartridge will work if you don't load it above the original pressure limits for the cartridge.
I was told its 44 Webley but dont have a 44 webley case handy to check its chamber or a 442.
it might be 44 Russian i have a 44 r case somewhere so will check the chamber again in case it is 44 R already.
The chamber throats are like .438 bigger than i thought the bore is .430 tho.
I just double checked i should slug the bore to be sure but the calipers dont lie to much.
Its and orignal barrel to the gun with orignal nickle.
Id be happy if its 44 Russian prefer that.
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There is the old .44 bulldog cartridge as well, very short only going about 450fps.... Apparently some of the H&R .44 bulldogs were chambered for this one.
I like, "there's only one way to find out." Many of those that shoot antiques with smokeless ammo might be risk takers. I'm likely one of those, although I've been known to take protective measures when acting as the guinea pig with old guns.
Do we have a thread anywhere on this forum comprised of examples of those that found out the "hard way?" Pictures and details of the failed experiments - both of the guns and those that shot them - might prove instructive. A search of the internet has only turned up pictures of a couple of examples of old pistols with blown up cylinders or barrels. There must be more or we would not hear so many cautions about shooting smokeless ammo in antiques.
I've only seen two photos, one of what appears to be a Webley with a blown cylinder and the other a Colt SAA with an intact cylinder but the frame where the barrel screws in blew and the barrel was missing. I have never really heard anything about antique guns blowing up otherwise, I guess most people are real careful.
There is the old .44 bulldog cartridge as well, very short only going about 450fps.... Apparently some of the H&R .44 bulldogs were chambered for this one.
Well i checked a 44 Russian case fits.
No sign of any reaming or altering of the chambers either.
So thats good.
44 Russian is better than 44 webley in lots of ways.
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Yeah I havent really seen many pics or heard very many stories. Most people pay alot of money for their toys and they make sure to load them light and go easy on them.
If I'm not mistaken, Starpuss mentioned awhile back that he blew a cylinder on an old .32RF Revolver, not sure what make or model is was though.
I'v never had any issues with my .32RF's though, but they are all excellent mechanically and have thicker cylinder walls/frames than some of the others.
