243 win 105 berger vld, dead elk 688 yards

kman300 said:
I came across a series of interesting pictures yesterday. I didn't want to copy them and then post them so here is the link.

They show, among other things, the delayed expansion that allow Berger bullets to punch through a shoulder prior to expanding. Some people have a difficult time believing this but the pictures, if nothing else, show the delayed expansion.

h ttp://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f93/barness-tests-prove-why-berger-hunting-vlds-so-successful-eric-stecker-43447/index20.html
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I have never shot an elk made out of gelatin before.... and I despise the berger approach more and more as time goes on.....
 
kman300 said:
I came across a series of interesting pictures yesterday. I didn't want to copy them and then post them so here is the link.

They show, among other things, the delayed expansion that allow Berger bullets to punch through a shoulder prior to expanding. Some people have a difficult time believing this but the pictures, if nothing else, show the delayed expansion.

h ttp://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f93/barness-tests-prove-why-berger-hunting-vlds-so-successful-eric-stecker-43447/index20.html
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So I ask, to those who know, what makes Berger HP bullets so much superior for game animals than the other companies HP match bullets? Seriously curious here..........
 
Superbrad said:
I have never shot an elk made out of gelatin before.... and I despise the berger approach more and more as time goes on.....
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Which is why I stated that if nothing else they showed the delayed expansion. Nobody said elk were made of gelatin. Thank you for pointing that out though.

Also if you dod some more reading you would see that they also tested them with a bone in the gelatin. Again, elk are not gelatin and bone but it's as good as it gets for simulated performance. The REAL testing happens in the field and there are tons of dead animals due to bergers.
 
bearkilr said:
So I ask, to those who know, what makes Berger HP bullets so much superior for game animals than the other companies HP match bullets? Seriously curious here..........
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The fact that they are hunting bullets? Says so right on the box. The other ones are match bullets. Also says so on the box.
 
kman300 said:
Which is why I stated that if nothing else they showed the delayed expansion. Nobody said elk were made of gelatin. Thank you for pointing that out though.

Also if you dod some more reading you would see that they also tested them with a bone in the gelatin. Again, elk are not gelatin and bone but it's as good as it gets for simulated performance. The REAL testing happens in the field and there are tons of dead animals due to bergers.
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I wasn't directing my comment at you but more so towards the link you posted....

I did read, he is clearly saying that the berger bullets used in those videos are so successful because of their expansion characteristics as shown by the bone / gelatin.....

Again, I find this type of advertising very irresponsable as it insinuates that these are "special" bullets that have "special" characteristics and coupled with these videos leads the uneducated to believe that long range hunting is as simple as buying these magic bullets......
 
bearkilr said:
An expected answer. :rolleyes:

Anyone else that actually has specifics? Is it jacket thickness? Bonded core? Voodoo?
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So the fact that the designers and makers, you could also call them experts, say they are hunting bullets is not good enough for you? You want someone in an Internet forum to tell you? Walt Berger has made bullets for a really long time. I him saying they wonk don't do it for you then I doubt anything you read on a forum will.
 
Superbrad said:
I wasn't directing my comment at you but more so towards the link you posted....

I did read, he is clearly saying that the berger bullets used in those videos are so successful because of their expansion characteristics as shown by the bone / gelatin.....

Again, I find this type of advertising very irresponsable as it insinuates that these are "special" bullets that have "special" characteristics and coupled with these videos leads the uneducated to believe that long range hunting is as simple as buying these magic bullets......
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And Barnes et al are not magic bullets? All you have to do is buy a premium bullet and you can take any angle shot, 100% weight retention, always get an exit etc. How many people buy those bullets for those exact claims? Sound familiar?
 
kman300 said:
So the fact that the designers and makers, you could also call them experts, say they are hunting bullets is not good enough for you? You want someone in an Internet forum to tell you? Walt Berger has made bullets for a really long time. I him saying they wonk don't do it for you then I doubt anything you read on a forum will.
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See below.
Dogleg said:
I used a 190 grain VLD (.300 Win) on a 440 yard whitetail buck, and never even made it through the ribs. It went straight down, but was standing with its head hanging when we walked up to it.

It'll be a cold day in hell before I use them again. At that time the hunting and target bullets were exactly the same except for the colour of the box. That may have changed now, but I've lost all interest in Bergers as big game bullets.

DSCF2667.jpg
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how do you feel about the Z06 Vet? GT500? and the Viper? no reason for asking just feel like this horse has been beaten to death....if you dont like it....dont hunt this way,stay in your lane,I am about ready to lock this down,this topic should not get anyone up in arms,we have all seen bad shots.....at close range and long range but I for one have never had a bad shot at longer ranges(400meters +) but then again I dont shoot at running game,I wait till there broadside head down or away from me,I use a laser range finder and I shoot one rifle all the time out to 1000meters and know my come ups from muzzle to 1000meters I shoot over 1000 rounds a year! ethics ethics ethics we all have them no one is right,if you cant shoot long range but go out and and wing it,,,,you have no ethics,telling me that I have no ethics is wrong I can do it and I do it with great skill
 
kman300 said:
And Barnes et al are not magic bullets? All you have to do is buy a premium bullet and you can take any angle shot, 100% weight retention, always get an exit etc. How many people buy those bullets for those exact claims? Sound familiar?
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I am not taking a shot at their bullets... just their advertising... what I am saying is that their ads would lead you to believe the bullet does all the work... and if you bought a box of bergers you could do what they do in the videos...
 
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Superbrad said:
I am not taking a shot at their bullets... just their advertising... what I am saying is that their ads would lead you to believe the bullet does all the work... and if you bought a box of bergers you could do what they do in the videos...
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Watch the nosler, Barnes etc videos on their website and tell me they don't do the same thing.
 
Just use Swift bullets!;) No B.S. marketing with these guys.

No fancy hollow points or target bullets, no made up claims, just made for one thing, big game hunting.

Wonder why Norma, Federal and Remington use them in their premium hunting ammo?
 
bearkilr said:
An expected answer. :rolleyes:

Anyone else that actually has specifics? Is it jacket thickness? Bonded core? Voodoo?
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Apparently the long ogive and the large hollow cavity between the HP nose and the lead core is what accounts for the difference. The nose begins to collapse immediately upon impact, but the bullet penetrates a couple of inches before the nose impacts the lead core and causes the entire bullet to start expanding violently.

The hollow void between the nose and the core on most other match bullets just isn't nearly as long, so the other bullets tend to begin core expansion almost immediately.
 
Jordan Smith said:
Apparently the long ogive and the large hollow cavity between the HP nose and the lead core is what accounts for the difference. The nose begins to collapse immediately upon impact, but the bullet penetrates a couple of inches before the nose impacts the lead core and causes the entire bullet to start expanding violently.

The hollow void between the nose and the core on most other match bullets just isn't nearly as long, so the other bullets tend to begin core expansion almost immediately.
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Thanks for the good explanation. They do seem to perform decently at long distance, however I'm still skeptical what their performance would be at closer ranges. There are no close range videos of Berger's in use I can find. However, I understand that an 80 yard shot on an elk isn't nearly as spectacular from an advertising perspective.

Since one never knows what range an animal will appear at, I believe there are probably better suited bullets out there.
 
bearkilr said:
Thanks for the good explanation. They do seem to perform decently at long distance, however I'm still skeptical what their performance would be at closer ranges. There are no close range videos of Berger's in use I can find. However, I understand that an 80 yard shot on an elk isn't nearly as spectacular from an advertising perspective.

Since one never knows what range an animal will appear at, I believe there are probably better suited bullets out there.
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I have read that some Berger users usually carry another load specifically for shots UNDER 300 yards.
 
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