Accuracy

From a ransom rest, I'd expect 1" or better group.
How many rounds you've got trough this barrel and what bullets and powders have you tried? Also, you may want to check you are not over crimping and that chambered bullet does not sit on the rifling.
 
It depends on the gun, if your CZ will group 2" at best then that's what you'll need, if you can get it tighter, then that's better and you want to strive for that. With my Open gun I expect 1" @25m off the sandbags. Any bigger and I'm not happy. But with production gun, 2-2 1/2" would probably be acceptable. Work some groups off the bags and freestyle too and see if there are the same results.
You definitely want the most accurate, reliable load you can put together.
 
Any of those should work fine. Two considerations:
1. Some CZ barrels come in quite large; .357-ish. If you have one of those and are shooting a typical .355" 9mm bullet it won't group all that well. can you slug the bore and measure it?
2. Are you loading short enough for the CZ? 1.1" or just a tad lower seems to be the magic ticket in these guns. If you are pushing against the rifling when in battery it can mess things up for you and spike pressure.
 
hawkrider said:
re: loaded length, being that all of the bullets have a different shape, I would think that the distance the bullet shoulder is off the lands would be a consideration, Would it not???

thanks
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It will be slightly different for each bullet profile, but the main concern is that the bullet just not be touching the lands. In any 9mm load that will reliably feed, I doubt very much that you would have a significant enough gap to effect accuracy. As well, if you go too short you will be dealing with excessive pressure.

The way I would do it:
Mark up a bullet in a loaded round with a felt pen and drop it into the chamber (barrel out of the gun) and gently rotate it to see if it is contacting the lands. Back off in micro-increments until you have clearance and you should be good to go. Adjust powder throw downwards to compensate for shorter length and chrono for a base line from which you can extrapolate your new , correct charge.
 
imho you dont need a very accurate handgun to shoot ipsc. i woudlnt shoot a course of fire any better with a gun that shoots 1" at 25m than one that shoots 4" at 25m. just my opinion. well...i will say that the only exception to that is when you have a small steel at 25m+ which certainly doesn't occur all to often.
 
animalamidon said:
imho you dont need a very accurate handgun to shoot ipsc. i woudlnt shoot a course of fire any better with a gun that shoots 1" at 25m than one that shoots 4" at 25m. just my opinion. well...i will say that the only exception to that is when you have a small steel at 25m+ which certainly doesn't occur all to often.
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It depends on the matches you attend. Majors will often have targets out to fifty meters, miini-poppers or difficult partials. In those cases you need to know the bullet will go precisely where you aim it. 4" @ 25 gets to be 8" @ fifty, which is a pretty wide margin for error and means you will be firing "hopers" for the most part. The more accurate the gun and load combination is, the better.

IMHO it's always better to know a miss was the fault of the shooter rather than the gun or ammo. Technique issues are easier to correct.
 
This is one area where you'll find all top shooters in agreement. You need to be as accurate as possible. Both from the gun and yourself. Saul Kirsch has a good explanation in the 3GM DVD. It applies at any distance but if we use 25m as most of this thread has it works well. If your gun can shoot 4" @ 25m you must hold almost exactly center on an A zone (6" wide) to ensure an A hit or you start dropping points. OTOH if my gun shoots a 1" group it will hit an A if I place the sights anywhere in the A zone within 1/2" of the edge of the A and expect to get a hit without dropping points. Now think of the time it takes to hold dead center A at 25m versus placing your sights anywhere inside the A zone at the same distance.
 
Run the most accurate load you have, if two are about the same go for the one you feel better with the recoil with - many top shooters prefer a 'snappier' recoil feel as it's over and done with quicker and you can get sights back on target quicker. This might indicate a lighter bullet is the way to go - That said go with what you are most comfortable with as you build your skills, you can always change in the future.

Bear in mind the accuracy out of the gun after 2000 rounds will likely be worse than today if you only have 500 rounds through it as the moving parts will loosen up a bit with wear.

Also good advice from Relliot and PH Racing so x2 on their comments above.
Have fun!
 
Depends on the gun, if it was built right it will maintain accuracy. My 13yo Millenium gun would shoot 3" @ 100m when I got it, it will still print under an inch @ 25m when I do my part and it's got the better part of 100,000 rounds down the pipe.
 
While a 1 inch group from a Ransom Rest would be nice it's likely tighter than most service pistols will produce. And at its heart the Shadow is still a lightly warmed over service pistol. As such I'd say anything around 2 inch or tighter for groupings at 25m would be OK.

Something that's been touched on but not stressed enough is how the ammo shoots with you. You'll need to follow up your load testing from the rest to see which allows you to shoot the best in terms of effective double taps so you can pick up a few hundreths here and there on the closer in targets at least.

It's been my experience that the scoring system rewards faster shooting with adequite accuracy moreso than excellent accuracy with slower but still respectable times. Of course if you can combine the two then you'll be bumped up quickly.... :D
 
BCRider said:
While a 1 inch group from a Ransom Rest would be nice it's likely tighter than most service pistols will produce. And at its heart the Shadow is still a lightly warmed over service pistol. As such I'd say anything around 2 inch or tighter for groupings at 25m would be OK.

Something that's been touched on but not stressed enough is how the ammo shoots with you. You'll need to follow up your load testing from the rest to see which allows you to shoot the best in terms of effective double taps so you can pick up a few hundreths here and there on the closer in targets at least.

It's been my experience that the scoring system rewards faster shooting with adequite accuracy moreso than excellent accuracy with slower but still respectable times. Of course if you can combine the two then you'll be bumped up quickly.... :D
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Problem is where you are looking for speed. If you think that fast doubles are the way to quick times, I guarantee you will never have quick times.
 
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