English BREN gun Vs american B.A.R

Well we know which one the Germans like better don't we. Look how happy FJ Fritz looks holding that beauty;)
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Back in the good ol' days of basic training we had great fun with the LMG [as we called the 7.62x51 NATO version of the BREN]. It was super-accurate, and would happily beat a rifleman on the 600m falling plates. It was a real mechanical work of art in every way, and a real joy to shoot...

tac
 
TGC said:
I have seen several show with both guns compared to each other, and in one show the bren wins, in another the bar,
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In the real world the BAR doesn't even compare to the Bren as a combat weapon.

How do you change mags while prone or in a defensive position with the BAR?

What kind of sustained fire do you think your loader could help you keep up?

There were good reasons that the British didn't adopt the BAR during the trials which lead to the Bren.

Largely they were the same reasons they converted their Brens to 7.62 rather than adopting the C2/L2 family.

The BAR is an "automatic rifle", the Bren is a "light machinegun".

:50cal:
 
The Bren also has a quick change barrel; something seen only on a comparatively small number of BAR variants (Colt R75A and FN Mle D).

I don't think it would be out of line to say that the Bren/ZB 26 family are the finest examples of LMGs chambered for full power rifle cartridges.
 
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tjhaile said:
The Bren also a quick change barrel; something seen only on a comparatively small number of BAR variants (Colt R75A and FN Mle D).

I don't think it would be out of line to say that the Bren/ZB 26 family are the finest examples of LMGs chambered for full power rifle cartridges.
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In the early 1950s, during summers in COTC, we used the Bren and I loved it. I recall one day on the ranges, at either 200 or 300 yards, the order was bursts meaning 2-3-2-3 to empty the two 28 round mags for the drill. Well I left the change lever on full auto but was able to squeeze of one round at a time by very careful trigger work. Thus, each shot was aimed. The Van Doo NCO was screeming "Sir! Bursts!" and I replied check the target when I finish, changed mags in the alloted time. Nothing more was said.

As well as the extra barrel which could be changed in seconds, after heavy firing, the crud would start to build up where the gas was taken from the barrel. The immediate action was to turn the round block to the next clean hole, I think that there are 4. This could be done with a round very quickly.

Having a Bren man in a section and each man in the section carrying 4 full 28 round Bren mags, the full section had close to 40 full mags to support the Bren man and he usually had another man beside him carrying the spare barrel.

The Bren with the sling around the neck, could be used when walking laying down very effective fire.

A far better weapon IMHO than the BAR.
 
I recall a chat I had at Connaught Ranges about 20 yrs ago with a veteran Bren gunner in the Italian campaign who was coaching a new owner of a converted auto Bren (before they were prohibs). Yeah, back then civilians could shoot CFSAC LMG matches through the DCRA with converted autos! Anyway, we had a few C6s (7.62mm belt-fed current GPMG) alongside as well and their operators sautered over to watch the ol' guy pump round after round in the centre of the fig 12 at 300m (yes, semi-auto only, but at an impressive rate of fire nonetheless). In the usual banter that followed we all lamented the demise of the Bren from the CF's inventory but the vet had a different way of seeing things: he thought the Bren was too accurate for what it was intended to be - an area weapon. There were times it came in handy - say when he wanted to empty 30 rds into a window of a house down the street, but in general terms, the "beaten zone" was too small and he said he would have preferred the C6!

As an added note, he said that he did have a spare barrel for his Bren, but it never went on patrol with him - he left it in his locker and carried extra mags instead!

I've been lucky enough to fire a full auto Bren (both the .303 and 7.62 versions), I can't tell you how accurate it was since I could hardly open my eyes with that wide-ar$ed grin that I had for the rest of the day!!
 
The guy is a great entertainer, no doubt. The BREN is a superior design to the BAR for all the reasons mentioned; qc barrel, adjustable gas setting, larger mag.

Inglis also produced the BREN in 8x57 for the Chinese during WW2, and some of these got pointed back at us in Korea. Inglis also experimented with .30-06 conversions which worked well. The best of all worlds in WW2/Korea would have been an infantry squad/section armed with both Garands and BRENs in .30-06.

Last time I saw the BREN in the hands of troops was in S. Lebanon in the late 1980s. The Nepalese UN contingent were using them. I don't know if they were in .303 or 7.62 as for the Brit conversions. We would have been yrs ahead to have converted our BRENs to 7.62 rather than adopt the FNC2 as an LMG. The Brits went this way.
 
Brno - the centre of Czech gun-making and armaments - like Herstal/Liége for FN.

Enfield - Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield Lock - location of one of the main British government small arms arsenals.

In similar fashion - STEN - Stirling/Enfield, AUSTEN - Australian STEN.

tac
 
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