Bad crimp dies from lees

[rifleman1377]

Here are the pictures. This is the die beside a 308

Here is the problem, its too small and the shoulders will not fit.

I emailed lee and they said this happens about 1 in 80 and they are going to sent me another set of dies. The Seating die and sizer die are fine. Looks like i got a free set of dies, great service from lees will buy from them for other dies.

 

[The Kurgan]

Here are the pictures. This is the die beside a 308

Here is the problem, its too small and the shoulders will not fit.

I emailed lee and they said this happens about 1 in 80 and they are going to sent me another set of dies. The Seating die and sizer die are fine. Looks like i got a free set of dies, great service from lees will buy from them for other dies.

Good of them to own up to the problem and replace the defective die with a new set of dies !

 

[maynard]

I load and shoot about 1000-1500 .308 rounds a year. Never crimped one in my life.

 

[CZ_Brno]

I'm not sure how necessary crimping really is either. And you'd think it'd be harder to pull the bullet if need be.

 

[ben hunchak]

Not only did they screw up your dies but they had a misprint, should have read 1 of 8 Lee dies are screwed up. Special crimp dies are a gimmick and not necessary if you do things right, part of doing things right is having dies that are bang on their specs. So if you want to make the best ammo you can don't cheap out on dies. I buy my Redding dies for $36/set and $54/set of deluxe dies which include both a full length size die and a neck size die. I pay a bit more for Forsters but they feature an in-line seating die. Sometimes it doesn't pay to buy the cheapest.

 

[m39a2]

I use a lot of Lee dies and some other pieces of thier equipment and I know for a fact that some commercial reloaders use lee dies as well. I have been to the factory and met Richard Lee. Poop happens and if they made an error they will fix it without hesitation or a long winded explanation of why it was your fault. The crimping die was denounced by all the other manufacturers when lee first started to produce it even though ALL AMMUNITION MANUFACTURERS use the exact same crimp on some of the cartridges they produce!

Cartridges used in violent actions, SKS, M-14's, M1 Garands and some heavy recoiling lever action tube fed rifles and some handguns are usually always crimped to keep the bullet in the right place in the case during recoil. I crimp even my match loads for my bolt action target rifles (Lightly) to ensure consistant neck tension, this has most likely added to my accuracy rather that take away from it.

Scott

 

[ben hunchak]

Every set of dies, with the exception of in-line seaters, will crimp just as much as you want, even to the extreme, if you set your die up properly, it will seat and crimp in one operation. So why would you need the extra step?? I also don't see much need for any crimp in rifle cartridges except, very heavy bullets in tubular magazines. If done right, case neck tension should hold the bullet from moving, crimping is an accuracy destroyer, that's why benchresters don't do it. I never crimped the 300gr. bullets in my .378 Weatherby and they never slipped the crimp in the mag., and you couldn't keep a scope on that rifle.

 

[stubblejumper]

I load and shoot about 1000-1500 .308 rounds a year. Never crimped one in my life.

Me neither, it just isn't necessary.

If done right, case neck tension should hold the bullet from moving, crimping is an accuracy destroyer, that's why benchresters don't do it.

Exactly.

 

[H4831]

Ben, you old rascal, you are stealing my words before I can get them written down!
First with this.-- "Special crimp dies are a gimmick and not necessary--,"


and then with your next post.

Every set of dies, with the exception of in-line seaters, will crimp just as much as you want, even to the extreme, if you set your die up properly, it will seat and crimp in one operation. So why would you need the extra step?? I also don't see much need for any crimp in rifle cartridges except, very heavy bullets in tubular magazines. If done right, case neck tension should hold the bullet from moving, crimping is an accuracy destroyer, that's why benchresters don't do it. I never crimped the 300gr. bullets in my .378 Weatherby and they never slipped the crimp in the mag., and you couldn't keep a scope on that rifle.

 

[Kevan]

Every set of dies, with the exception of in-line seaters, will crimp just as much as you want, even to the extreme.

I honestly believe this too but a recent purchase, an RCBS 45 Colt 3-die set will not crimp on the seater die no matter how its set.
All my other handgun dies will regardless of make, so I'm having to send this one in.
Sometimes lemons can turn up no matter whose name is on them as seen on this thread....

 

[zuke]

Keep it up ben,were waiting!

 

[jethunter]

I honestly believe this too but a recent purchase, an RCBS 45 Colt 3-die set will not crimp on the seater die no matter how its set.
All my other handgun dies will regardless of make, so I'm having to send this one in.
Sometimes lemons can turn up no matter whose name is on them as seen on this thread....

Now i wonder how a Lee crimping die ended up in that RCBS die set?! You just can't trust those Lee people, it's diabolical they would sneak their faulty seating die into the RCBS die set!!

 

[ben hunchak]

Kevan: To remove any doubt, completely remove seating stem from die, run loaded(uncrimped) round fully up into die until shell holder(or jaws) contact bottom of the die, if it hasn't crimped by now, you have a point...don't try this with Lee dies as they are prolly already cross-threaded or you'll ruin a O-ring.

 

[Kevan]

Kevan: To remove any doubt, completely remove seating stem from die, run loaded(uncrimped) round fully up into die until shell holder(or jaws) contact bottom of the die, if it hasn't crimped by now, you have a point...don't try this with Lee dies as they are prolly already cross-threaded or you'll ruin a O-ring.

Ben, thats the first thing I did and honestly it doesn't crimp.
I even tried a shell holder thats a few thou thinner allowing me to turn the die down more and the damn thing still doesn't crimp.Tried some different dia. bullets both bigger and smaller still no go.
I'm only shooting a light cast load so I can get by till I get another die and hopefully by that time I can track down some heavier bullets for some stronger loads..... crimping will be a necessity then I'm thinkin'....

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

First with this.-- "Special crimp dies are a gimmick and not necessary--,

Not if you're handloading a .30 cal M-25 Tracer in a 7.62X39 case they're not

 

[ben hunchak]

Then you must be doing something very wrong, regardless of projectile, if you don't have sufficient case neck tension to begin with, you need to change something.

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

Then you must be doing something very wrong, regardless of projectile, if you don't have sufficient case neck tension to begin with, you need to change something.

And what should I change? I am loading a .308 diameter tracer bullet into a .312'ish case. The Lee "factory" or "special" crimp die works great for me in this application. I do the same when loading .308 bullets in .303BRIT.

BTW before I used the Lee crimp dies I loaded and fired many rounds of M-25 in full-sized .303brit cases through my Enfield with no ill effects. I would simply place the bullet in the loaded case by hand, neck tension was non existent...I could rotate the bullet in the case with my fingers, nothing but the black sealant keeping them in place.

 

[ben hunchak]

Regardless...the bullet must have proper and consistent neck tension for proper and consistent ignition. Change expander ball on sizing die to the same size as used on a .308 die, not the .312" one currently installed. Do the loaded bullets not fall into the case? Are you sure that they are all seated/crimped to the same depth if they are loose in the case? Note also: your .308 bullets will prolly not show good accuracy anyways because the bore is .312" or so.

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

Regardless...the bullet must have proper and consistent neck tension for proper and consistent ignition. Change expander ball on sizing die to the same size as used on a .308 die, not the .312" one currently installed. Do the loaded bullets not fall into the case? Are you sure that they are all seated/crimped to the same depth if they are loose in the case? Note also: your .308 bullets will prolly not show good accuracy anyways because the bore is .312" or so.

Sorry, ignition is consistent 100% of the time with next to no neck tension. Dozens of firings confirm this. As for lack of accuracy, no argument there and no explanation needed when using an undersized projectile.

In a commercial .303BRIT case with close to max charge of IMR4895 the base of the M-25 bullet bottoms on the powder charge...almost right on the cannelure and a perfect OAL in my #4 Tanker.
Loading the M-25 tracer in the 7.62X39 case is a different story. I need the crimp as I'm running it through my XCR and SKS.
My first reply was only meant to prove that the Lee factory crimp dies can serve a purpose, and for me they work quite well.

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

Do the loaded bullets not fall into the case?

They most certainly would if not for the remnants of black tar sealant on the bullet that holds them in place