Kel-Tec su16 vs Robinson xcr

ea187 said:
Can't believe the RO didn't give you s**t up there at poco.
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He was busy holding the apple steady on his head at the 50 while the other RO was blindfolding me.

Now to add something useful to this thread. :)

For the OP, if you're thinking of getting a KelTec, be aware that by the time you mod it like Satain has (assuming you have his level of gunmod skill - I don't), you'll be in the price range of the Benelli .223.

If I was you and wanted a fighting rifle in the KelTec budget, I'd look at a VZ58. It's my fav rifle, hands down, including my XCR and SL8.

Just my two cents.
 
The Kel Tec SU-16 is super easy to mod and not at all expensive. Mine with AR adapter, PRS stock, CASV quad rail and scope came in at just over $1000.

I do like my CZ858 as well but what sold me on the Kel Tec was the ability to use the LAR mags and be able to couple together 2 10rd mags legally to shoot 20rds before a reload.
 
the_klenzer said:
CSA VZ58 in .223 w. magwell adapter will also run coupled LAR 10rd mags, though I admit it will be more than the SU16 in any configuration.
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I thought about getting one of the .223 but I have 2000rds of 7.62 so it'll have to do till the ammo is gone then maybe sell it and get a .223.

That being said.......the Kel Tec is the closest thing I'll handle to an AR in non-res form and it's damn fun......goes through the ammo fast though.
 
the_klenzer said:
...all the good ones do. :)
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I never really had this strange problem with my CZ. I'd grab 2 or 300 rds and head to PoCo and get a couple hundred in before I'd get tired of reloading. This one will easilly breeze through that in a firing session. Good thing the .23 is almost as cheap as the 7.62 around here.
 
I like metal guns, so the XCR gets my vote though I find the weight and folding function nifty on the SU-16. Instead of an SU-16 I built a new series stainless Mini-30 in a Ruger factory folder. A good call, and never looked back. Needed a compact folder or takedown carbine for in the machine at work, being able to shoot it folded, and all stainless construction, was a no brainer. They're also scary accurate, the new series Rugers. Apology for partial hijack.
 
I own both and love both of em.

But they are like 2 sons good at different things.

My SU shots 1.5 at 100. It has a Burris AR scope and I quad and truck carry it as a varmint and beaver rifle.

My XCR is in 6.8 and I hunt with it. it shoots inch groups so I got lucky and it's a keeper.

Both have 10 round mags now (well 11 for the 6.8) and both therefore can chew ammo quickly for fun.

I won't sell either, but I sold my Tavor.
 
It would take way too much typing to detail this here, but the short version is this: Kel-Tec has an established history of building cheapass guns that don't run well. Robarm has an established history of building expensive guns that don't run well. The XCR is notorious for failure during any high-round-count usage it's put through, and the Kel-Tec isn't, because nobody wants to waste $500 on training fees and another $500 on ammo and show up to a shooting class with a gun that everybody knows can't hack the demands placed on it.

Guns with lousy track records do not interest me at all. As a toy, fine. The Kel-Tec seems like a toy worth a couple hundred bucks to me. The XCR is worth less than a normal AR, but they aren't SO poor that they are worth half what a ####ty AR is worth, so fine, under a grand and I think it's not unreasonable to spend on a hobby-grade rifle.

So there you go...extremely cheaply built gun should be extremely cheap; more expensively built gun should be more expensive. Neither should cost as much as they do, because neither of them are very good.
 
and the Kel-Tec isn't, because nobody wants to waste $500 on training fees and another $500 on ammo and show up to a shooting class with a gun that everybody knows can't hack the demands placed on it.
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if i had $1000 i'd attempt it.
 
misanthropist said:
It would take way too much typing to detail this here, but the short version is this: Kel-Tec has an established history of building cheapass guns that don't run well. Robarm has an established history of building expensive guns that don't run well. The XCR is notorious for failure during any high-round-count usage it's put through, and the Kel-Tec isn't, because nobody wants to waste $500 on training fees and another $500 on ammo and show up to a shooting class with a gun that everybody knows can't hack the demands placed on it.

Guns with lousy track records do not interest me at all. As a toy, fine. The Kel-Tec seems like a toy worth a couple hundred bucks to me. The XCR is worth less than a normal AR, but they aren't SO poor that they are worth half what a s**tty AR is worth, so fine, under a grand and I think it's not unreasonable to spend on a hobby-grade rifle.

So there you go...extremely cheaply built gun should be extremely cheap; more expensively built gun should be more expensive. Neither should cost as much as they do, because neither of them are very good.
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cou:
WoW!
A lot of hate in that speach.
:popCorn:
misanthropist happy new year ;)
 
misanthropist said:
It would take way too much typing to detail this here, but the short version is this: Kel-Tec has an established history of building cheapass guns that don't run well. Robarm has an established history of building expensive guns that don't run well. The XCR is notorious for failure during any high-round-count usage it's put through, and the Kel-Tec isn't, because nobody wants to waste $500 on training fees and another $500 on ammo and show up to a shooting class with a gun that everybody knows can't hack the demands placed on it.

Guns with lousy track records do not interest me at all. As a toy, fine. The Kel-Tec seems like a toy worth a couple hundred bucks to me. The XCR is worth less than a normal AR, but they aren't SO poor that they are worth half what a s**tty AR is worth, so fine, under a grand and I think it's not unreasonable to spend on a hobby-grade rifle.

So there you go...extremely cheaply built gun should be extremely cheap; more expensively built gun should be more expensive. Neither should cost as much as they do, because neither of them are very good.
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It is interesting that most of the guys that hate the XCR and Kel-Tec are only interested in using them as competition guns and hate them because they do not stand up to the AR's of the world. But I would suggest that most of the people that would purchase a XCR or Kel-Tec are not intending the to use them in this sort of way. No one is going into battle with these rifles, no ones life depends on there function over thousands of rounds. Most buy them for there non-restricted status for either hunting or just plinking out in the bush and as such they are both very good rifles.
 
freddyfour said:
It is interesting that most of the guys that hate the XCR and Kel-Tec are only interested in using them as competition guns and hate them because they do not stand up to the AR's of the world. But I would suggest that most of the people that would purchase a XCR or Kel-Tec are not intending the to use them in this sort of way. No one is going into battle with these rifles, no ones life depends on there function over thousands of rounds. Most buy them for there non-restricted status for either hunting or just plinking out in the bush and as such they are both very good rifles.
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Well said. It's a lot like the Mini-14, Internet dwellers with too much time on their hands and not enough brass on the ground cuss them down, while they keep doing their job perfectly in the field with the non-city folks. The XCR is a better gun than the SU-16, period. It also costs a lot more so they equal out in my eyes.

The AR is a poorer gun in Canada than the XCR because of laws written by bureaucrats. The argument for the AR's superiority is moot as we live in a massive, wilderness-filled country and saying a gun you can use only in tiny little enclaves we call ranges is better, is asinine. Nothing wrong with liking AR's, but it certainly isn't 'better' than the XCR, not in this country.
 
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