Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Sorry Brad, but you first brought this shotgun use up in post #206.
Is 30/30 a good caliber to hunt deer?
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Sorry Brad, but you first brought this shotgun use up in post #206.
You asked me what I thought would better suit his need... I told you... as well I told you why I picked it at your request... now feel free to tell me how I am wrong....
I did... Sealhunter is revisiting the subject.... asking my recommendation...
Not the cartridge but the rifle for me. Why carry a big honkin 12 gauge shotgun when you can carry a slim sleek 94 ( or 336 if your a heathen). To me this all boils down to how confident you are with irons, because if your getting a scope then you might as well be getting a bolt ,semi , or pump in a larger caliber.
to think we still have another 11 months before deer season to keep arguing this
Good point... but I am 6 foot 225 so a few extra pounds does not bother me... the problem with this thread is that everything is in response to the OP and truly, this is a loaded question which will, in turn, generate a special opinion from everyone... hey, even you yourself seem to have an opinion on which actual 30-30 is best....
My Dad can beat up your Dad!!
Not if hes using a 30-30
Ya a few extra pounds don't really bother me either , but when im still hunting through ceader swamps it is nice to have that light weight , and at that range, i could throw a stone at them last deer i killed with a 30-30 was shot at the wooping distance of 10 yards
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
It is astounding.
The lack of understanding of what is required to effectively and efficiently kill an animal.
The same as the guys who preach sectional density, or that a 120 gr bullet won't take an elk, and soon and so fourth...
The lack of understanding of what is required to effectively and efficiently kill an animal.
The same as the guys who preach sectional density, or that a 120 gr bullet won't take an elk, and soon and so fourth...
It isn't necessarily about what is required.... a .22 will kill a deer if aimed well.... so does a bow or a spear or a sharpened paperclip pushed through a frozen pea tipped with poison blown through a daisy straw.....
...... I agree bud, there are some that think a .357 H&H is ideal for everything... or you need a .338 lapua for anything past 20 feet....
everyone has their own idea of "ideal".... .30-30 has a strong following... no doubt... just not my choice....
I have hunted in N.B. Shooting distances there are short. My last moose was at about 10 yards.
The 30-30 is perfect and an older marling with a 2.5X scope or williams peep and fire front sight would be excellent.
The 30-30 is perfect and an older marling with a 2.5X scope or williams peep and fire front sight would be excellent.
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
It isn't necessarily about what is required.... a .22 will kill a deer if aimed well.... so does a bow or a spear or a sharpened paperclip pushed through a frozen pea tipped with poison blown through a daisy straw.....
I agree bud, there are some that think a .357 H&H is ideal for everything... or you need a .338 lapua for anything past 20 feet....
everyone has their own idea of "ideal".... .30-30 has a strong following... no doubt... just not my choice....
A .22 calibre is just fine for big game sized animals,...the key is to use it within its range.
If it is not about what is required, than fill me in on what it is about?
Is it about what is ethical?
I would say a 30-30 on a deer inside 100 yards is certainly ethical.
Is it about what is legal?
Does ok there too....
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
Impossible, ...lol
Yes... it is certainly ethical.... yes... it is certainly legal..... no arguments here.....
But... is it the most ethical?... Is it the most effective?... and more important... is it the ideal? .... When OP made his post he hadn't purchased the rifle yet... he "assumed" it would only be under 100 and it was to be his son's first rifle.... (OK ... first centerfire rifle).... wouldn't be my first choice.... or even my second... Just my oipinion.... nowhere did I ever say that a 30-30 won't kill a deer under 100 yards.... In my opinion there are better choices out there
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
So from your post on most ethical and most effective, do tell me...
What rifle or calibre would be more effective or more ethical than a 30-30 inside 100 yards...
Not only do people need to do what's ethical and effective in killing an animal, they have to figure out what is most ethical, and most effective now? Beyond the requirement of being ethical, most ethical or most effective is dependent on the individual not the gun they shoot. I know people who are far more effective with a 243 on elk, than others with a 300 wsm.
So which is more ethical?
With my definition of effectiveness being death of the animal, and my definition of ethical being, a humane death, I can't see how something can be more effective or more ethical than something that is effective and ethical. Of course we assume that all would be legal
If I kill a doe with a single shot bang flop, is thre some was I could have been more ethical? Effective?
If I consistently do this with margin of error that the entire hunting population, wounds or loses an animal, is there something I should be doing to be more effective or ethical?
A deer shot in the vitals with a 30-30 or. 375 H&H, at 100 yards is a dead animal.
Is one more dead the other...more ethical...more effective?
Gut shoot the animal with either and you missed your target. If it was within your range and comfort zone, the shot was still an ethical one as the gun was capable of killing the animal with a vital hit, but it just didn't happen.
So this is where some begin the debate,...the bigger gun is better for when you screw up.
Nope, that's trying to get an insurance policy for your mistake. The ethics or lack of ethics on your part in taking a shot that results in a poor hit trumps any ethics you may attribute he cartridge.
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tactical lever
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fox Creek, Alberta
They are both throwing round nose bullets, same weight speed, with 24 thousandths of an inch separating diameter. I don't think it's that far apart.
Yes I am quite sure I know about sectional density. Yes I mixed up the name. But just to reiterate your "point": 7x57 Mauser throwing 173 grain round nose at 2300 ft./sec. = viable elephant round....30-30 throwing 170 grain round nose at 2200 ft./sec. = crap deer round.
I think you should compare them on the Taylor KO index (he's killed even more African stuff than you) and get back to me.
Or just walk me through your story again. All I got out of it was, you've got short legs.
I told you... 12 gauge slug if you are commited to staying under 100 yards....
Nowhere did I say .30-30 was illegal or unethical.... it's just not ideal when, like the OP, you can buy anything.... If you are commited to less than 100 then a 12 gauge slug would be my choice as I said earlier....
A sabot slug is twice the weight of a 30-30 bullet and more than twice the diameter, velocity about 2/3s of 30-30 at the muzzle.... retains 1/2 velocity at 100 yards, energy transfer into game with minimal over penetration in soft tissue.... plus, available in a variety of actions.....
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
So the bigger the bullet, the heavier the bullet, etc. equals a more effective and more ethical choice...
Now here is what I said all along, and you prove it.
Too many people think that a bigger heavier bullet, faster bullet, etc can make up for poor shot placement... I notic you never mention shot placement at all, anywhere... Because you want an insurance policy for poor placement.
If you believe that a sabot slug hitting a deer in the vitals is any more ethical or effective than a 30-30 150gr 160 or 170 gr hitting the same deer in the vitals, you are sadly mistaken. And just to clarify, this is what you have eluded to in your posts. You did not say the 30. -30 was unethical or not effective, you said the shotgun and slug was more effective and more ethical due to the reasons you listed, bigger bullet, heavier bullet, etc. And that is bull####.
