Is 30/30 a good caliber to hunt deer?

sealhunter said:
So from your post on most ethical and most effective, do tell me...
What rifle or calibre would be more effective or more ethical than a 30-30 inside 100 yards...

Not only do people need to do what's ethical and effective in killing an animal, they have to figure out what is most ethical, and most effective now? Beyond the requirement of being ethical, most ethical or most effective is dependent on the individual not the gun they shoot. I know people who are far more effective with a 243 on elk, than others with a 300 wsm.
So which is more ethical?


With my definition of effectiveness being death of the animal, and my definition of ethical being, a humane death, I can't see how something can be more effective or more ethical than something that is effective and ethical. Of course we assume that all would be legal

If I kill a doe with a single shot bang flop, is thre some was I could have been more ethical? Effective?

If I consistently do this with margin of error that the entire hunting population, wounds or loses an animal, is there something I should be doing to be more effective or ethical?

A deer shot in the vitals with a 30-30 or. 375 H&H, at 100 yards is a dead animal.
Is one more dead the other...more ethical...more effective?

Gut shoot the animal with either and you missed your target. If it was within your range and comfort zone, the shot was still an ethical one as the gun was capable of killing the animal with a vital hit, but it just didn't happen.

So this is where some begin the debate,...the bigger gun is better for when you screw up.
Nope, that's trying to get an insurance policy for your mistake. The ethics or lack of ethics on your part in taking a shot that results in a poor hit trumps any ethics you may attribute he cartridge.
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Please post in the thread rather than editing a previous post bud... I didn't even find this till just now... :)... not even quite sure how to answer it but I will try.....

All I will say is this... If you can consistantly bang flop that deer with whatever you are using at whatever range you limit yourself to then so be it.... completely ethical.... and nobody is pushing taking a bad shot with any caliber... This thread is not about shot placement... it's a styraight up caliber and rifle question... I am not arguing ethics... I am arguing what is best for that boy's first rifle

The OP's kid, on the other hand, has never shot a deer.... has never practiced with a centerfire and the OP himself stated that he "assumed" the shots would be under 100 yards.... I still don't think 30-30 is best choice based on action type, limited potential for growth and experience level of teh shooter..... If it were my son I would be buyhing something that could grow with him as a hunter instead of having to upgrade later on....
 
Superbrad said:
Please post in the thread rather than editing a previous post bud... I didn't even find this till just now... :)... not even quite sure how to answer it but I will try.....

All I will say is this... If you can consistantly bang flop that deer with whatever you are using at whatever range you limit yourself to then so be it.... completely ethical.... and nobody is pushing taking a bad shot with any caliber... This thread is not about shot placement... it's a styraight up caliber and rifle question... I am not arguing ethics... I am arguing what is best for that boy's first rifle

The OP's kid, on the other hand, has never shot a deer.... has never practiced with a centerfire and the OP himself stated that he "assumed" the shots would be under 100 yards.... I still don't think 30-30 is best choice based on action type, limited potential for growth and experience level of teh shooter..... If it were my son I would be buyhing something that could grow with him as a hunter instead of having to upgrade later on....
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And well agree to disagree..

I believe the 30-30 is a wonderful rifle to introduce a young or new shooter to 100 yrd deer hunting. Learn the basics... Move up to 200 yrd shooting...
The size of a lever action 30-30 in a carbine or similar, is a nice size....
There are many other calibres as well....notably 7mm-08 that I would recommend, as a first rifle.... But you can't go wrong with the 30-30 for the op's purposes....
 
Superbrad said:
Please post in the thread rather than editing a previous post bud... I didn't even find this till just now... :)... not even quite sure how to answer it but I will try.....

All I will say is this... If you can consistantly bang flop that deer with whatever you are using at whatever range you limit yourself to then so be it.... completely ethical.... and nobody is pushing taking a bad shot with any caliber... This thread is not about shot placement... it's a styraight up caliber and rifle question... I am not arguing ethics... I am arguing what is best for that boy's first rifle

The OP's kid, on the other hand, has never shot a deer.... has never practiced with a centerfire and the OP himself stated that he "assumed" the shots would be under 100 yards.... I still don't think 30-30 is best choice based on action type, limited potential for growth and experience level of teh shooter..... If it were my son I would be buyhing something that could grow with him as a hunter instead of having to upgrade later on....
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I never did get your issue with the action....what was it?
 
Superbrad said:
Yes... it is certainly ethical.... yes... it is certainly legal..... no arguments here.....

But... is it the most ethical?... Is it the most effective?... and more important... is it the ideal? .... When OP made his post he hadn't purchased the rifle yet... he "assumed" it would only be under 100 and it was to be his son's first rifle.... (OK ... first centerfire rifle).... wouldn't be my first choice.... or even my second... Just my oipinion.... nowhere did I ever say that a 30-30 won't kill a deer under 100 yards.... In my opinion there are better choices out there
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Superbrad said:
I told you... 12 gauge slug if you are commited to staying under 100 yards....

Nowhere did I say .30-30 was illegal or unethical.... it's just not ideal when, like the OP, you can buy anything.... If you are commited to less than 100 then a 12 gauge slug would be my choice as I said earlier....

A sabot slug is twice the weight of a 30-30 bullet and more than twice the diameter, velocity about 2/3s of 30-30 at the muzzle.... retains 1/2 velocity at 100 yards, energy transfer into game with minimal over penetration in soft tissue.... plus, available in a variety of actions.....
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So you want to start his son off with a slug gun? :confused:
 
Superbrad said:
Please post in the thread rather than editing a previous post bud... I didn't even find this till just now... :)... not even quite sure how to answer it but I will try.....

All I will say is this... If you can consistantly bang flop that deer with whatever you are using at whatever range you limit yourself to then so be it.... completely ethical.... and nobody is pushing taking a bad shot with any caliber... This thread is not about shot placement... it's a styraight up caliber and rifle question... I am not arguing ethics... I am arguing what is best for that boy's first rifle

The OP's kid, on the other hand, has never shot a deer.... has never practiced with a centerfire and the OP himself stated that he "assumed" the shots would be under 100 yards.... I still don't think 30-30 is best choice based on action type, limited potential for growth and experience level of teh shooter..... If it were my son I would be buyhing something that could grow with him as a hunter instead of having to upgrade later on....
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But upgradeing is part of the fun , cause then ya gotta go shooting
:D
Also dont want his boy scared of the gun cause the last time he had a large bruise or it knocked him flat;)
Gotta add my 2c
30 30 works even if i never use mine:redface:
 
Superbrad said:
that wasn't op's criteria....
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op said:
Is 30/30 a good caliber to hunt deer?
Thinking about going deer hunting with my boy and I'm assuming most of it would be at fairly close range (under 100 yds.) and in the bush. I know everyone has their favourites (30-06, .223, 7mm, etc. etc.) and I see ammo. like Leverevolution from Hornady has improved the 30/30 calibre. It just seems I don't hear about many people using 30/30 for deer.

I've always wanted a nice lever in 30/30 and was considering a Marlin 336BL with some optics.

So is this a decent caliber for this purpose and is this a decent gun?
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Under 100 yds, the 30-30, will work as well as any other cartridge, even if it's a magnum, or a shotgun, with less meat loss than most.

It costs a lot less to shoot than most other centrefires, even with factory ammo, and that means your youngster can practice more. The secret as we all know is shot placement, and that needs practice, and a cool head.
It can be used on small game, like rabbits and grouse with head shots, that is excellent practice, and helps with that cool head. It won't beat his shoulder to a flinch inducing pulp either.

You don't hear about folks using the 30-30 for deer, because it has lost it's lustre in the media sensation of magnums and such. It's not lost it's effectiveness.
 
John Y Cannuck said:
Under 100 yds, the 30-30, will work as well as any other cartridge, even if it's a magnum, or a shotgun, with less meat loss than most.

It costs a lot less to shoot than most other centrefires, even with factory ammo, and that means your youngster can practice more. The secret as we all know is shot placement, and that needs practice, and a cool head.
It can be used on small game, like rabbits and grouse with head shots, that is excellent practice, and helps with that cool head. It won't beat his shoulder to a flinch inducing pulp either.

You don't hear about folks using the 30-30 for deer, because it has lost it's lustre in the media sensation of magnums and such. It's not lost it's effectiveness.
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Used to be a guy round here that shot a rather large moose with his....
 
Superbrad said:
Please post in the thread rather than editing a previous post bud... I didn't even find this till just now... :)... not even quite sure how to answer it but I will try.....

All I will say is this... If you can consistantly bang flop that deer with whatever you are using at whatever range you limit yourself to then so be it.... completely ethical.... and nobody is pushing taking a bad shot with any caliber... This thread is not about shot placement... it's a styraight up caliber and rifle question... I am not arguing ethics... I am arguing what is best for that boy's first rifle

The OP's kid, on the other hand, has never shot a deer.... has never practiced with a centerfire and the OP himself stated that he "assumed" the shots would be under 100 yards.... I still don't think 30-30 is best choice based on action type, limited potential for growth and experience level of teh shooter..... If it were my son I would be buyhing something that could grow with him as a hunter instead of having to upgrade later on....
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Just who Elected you as President of the Ethics Committee?? FS
 
Hi! Well, I use a 30-30 win with regular 170 gr federal bullets and i got 3 deers with it so far dead right there. the distances were: 30 meters, 97 meters and 150 meters. So, i think this caliber is enough!
 
Jezus Shamalamadingdong people, give the guy a break he asked a simple question! Yes 30/30 will kill deer deader then a door nail from head to hip if you hit it with a 170 grain silvertip or club nose core lokt!

Both are blunt and will plow through a helluva lotta brush, hit, and that deer gonna get a hurt reeeaaaaal bad. You should see the nasty brush us southern Ontario runners/doggers (whatever you wanna call us) gotta go through sometimes!

You got one in the chamber and 6 in the mag, there not there just to make your gun heavy by all means use em!! I use a 308 pump and I tell you from experience that heavy nasty 30/30 ball will go where its pointed better then a faster 308 with 180's!

As long as you don't try and fire through a 6" hard maple you don't got a whole bunch to worry about!...And yes heavier bullets will plow through brush, hold together, and hit what your shooting at, Ill start a "brush buster" thread with pictures if ya'll want. 30/30 and 32 are a mean bush gun!
 
Superbrad said:
The OP's kid, on the other hand, has never shot a deer.... has never practiced with a centerfire and the OP himself stated that he "assumed" the shots would be under 100 yards.... I still don't think 30-30 is best choice based on action type, limited potential for growth and experience level of teh shooter..... If it were my son I would be buyhing something that could grow with him as a hunter instead of having to upgrade later on....
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I don't follow your line of thinkin at all :rolleyes:
A 30-30 up to 150yds is a devastating deer killer...that is a known fact!
If you actually hunt as much you you proclaim you do you've seen the balistic results on a deers carcus that 170gn specifically designed for 30-30 velocitys bullet can do.
As for action type, whats wrong with a gun that provides a follow-up shot, sure for the inexperienced it might be a little slower but isn't that a great teacher to make the 1st shot count.
Then you start with this "limited potential for growth and experience" :rolleyes:
I again suggest you get out in the field more, there's a ton of experienced, capable, successful hunters out there that want nothing more than their old 30 to hunt with (sorry JC, the old part wasn't pointed directly at ya:D) None have ever seen a need to "upgrade" as you call it.
 
The 30-30 model 94 Winchester would be a great choice if your shots are within 100 yards. The 30-30 is a classic cartridge and the Winchester model 94 is a great quality firearm. Good luck!
 
senior said:
I don't follow your line of thinkin at all :rolleyes:
A 30-30 up to 150yds is a devastating deer killer...that is a known fact!
If you actually hunt as much you you proclaim you do you've seen the balistic results on a deers carcus that 170gn specifically designed for 30-30 velocitys bullet can do.
As for action type, whats wrong with a gun that provides a follow-up shot, sure for the inexperienced it might be a little slower but isn't that a great teacher to make the 1st shot count.
Then you start with this "limited potential for growth and experience" :rolleyes:
I again suggest you get out in the field more, there's a ton of experienced, capable, successful hunters out there that want nothing more than their old 30 to hunt with (sorry JC, the old part wasn't pointed directly at ya:D) None have ever seen a need to "upgrade" as you call it.
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It appears that you cannot have a debate with anyone who carries a 30-30 without them telling you that you don't know what you are doing, don't spend enough time in the field etc etc.....

It is also obvious to me that anyone who doesn't want to use a 30-30 is some sort of "magnum pushing overkiller" in the eyes of the .30-30 crowd....

For example, you assume that I don't think the action is suitable because of speed... incorrect... I have a 30-30 as well as a BLR .308 in lever.... I can very easily get good quality second shots off without unshouldering the rifle... That being said, I find both of them to be less reliable than either a pump or a semi... I have had inexperienced friends short #### the action and not have enough momentum going at eject point to fully eject the round causing a jam.... much harder to do with my pumps and almost impossible with a well designed bolt... I would never buy a boy a semi so let's not go there....

Will a 30-30 effectively and ethically kill a deer under 150?... yes... no doubt... Do I think it's the best choice for a youngster starting out?... no, and that is MY OPINION..... and whether you believe it or not I have spent plenty of time in the field and own many firearms of different actions which makes me perfectly qualified to have it..... I'm sure you shoot lots and own many guns so you ar equalified to have yours... doesn't mean they have to be the same...
 
ryan32 said:
selectively quoting;
to think we still have another 11 months before deer season to keep arguing this :eek:
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You obviously need all that time in practise then, me I just load whatever is legal and go out the door, the beauty of 365 days a year deer stalking!
:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

Sorry I just had to rub it in!
 
senior said:
Ever wonder why it's pretty much the only one like it on this thread ;)
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Ever notice that it's always the same gang of fellas running around the site and touting the 30-30 as the best firearm for any situation and any animal? Everyone else is not as stubborn as me and has given up on trying to convince the 30-30 crowd that there are other options out there...

I mostly hunt alone since I bought my own property but the guys I used to go with and still go with occasionally have plenty of 30-30's.... But they aren't kids looking to buy their first hunting rifle either....
 
Yes I am quite sure I know about sectional density.
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Actually I don't think you do, or you would have concluded that the 7mm s .350 stands head and shoulders above nearly all the elephant cartridges of the day, and today for that matter.

Leaving elephants aside, but staying with the 7 x 57; the lighter bullets put it solidly in the same class as the 7-08, the old as the Model A .270 Win., and the .280 as normally factory loaded. Would you describe those
cartridges as ballistically similar to a 30-30?


People like to talk about Taylor and his K.0., and try to make it work for everything from handguns to stock market reports. Funny thing is, his theory was only ever meant to apply the chances of knocking out a elephant with missed brain shots, with solids. For thin skinned game and expanding bullets he was quick to say that energy was as good an indicator as anything.

Taylor was also known for his fondness for opium and little boys. (I just thought I'd throw that in for free.)
 
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