Arctic Style Precision Rig......Recommendations??

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wildernessguy

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Hi there, in my quest to put together my ideal entry level target/precision rifle, I am at the stage of consdiering the conditions in which it will be used. As I am still new to the precision realm, I am wondering which parts would be most affected by temps as cold as -45 or so. Reason being, I tend to get out of the city just as much in the winter for ice fishing, etc and thought some Manitoba winter target practice may have some fun factor to it. Quite frankly, if you live here you need to embrace winter to have enough fun outdoors to keep you going......

So I am wondering what type of consdierations should be placed on the stock, barrel, action, bedding, etc in order to put something reliable together for extreme cold conditions. I would really like to put the time in now to put together the best shooter I can for my use, so I do not have to swap out a pile of parts later and pay for things twice.

I would be greatful for any suggestions as which direction I should take. Pretty much decided on a heavy barrel .308 to start so I can do some hunting with it also.

Thanks!!
 
Your load is going to change HUGE from +25 to -45*C.

So far shooting in the winter the only thing I have found is you have to work up your load for cold weather.

Just a little tip. Take your rifle outside in a sealed hard case, let it cool off and then take it out of the case. When bringing it back inside do the same. Let it fully warm up before you take it out of the case.
 
No sense trying to re-invent the wheel. If you want a near custom rifle for precision shooitng in extremes of temperatures/humidity why not consider an AI AW in .308 Winchester?
 
I'm relatively new to precision shooting as well and was faced with similar decisions a few weeks ago. Mine is also going to be used for hunting as well as informal target shooting. I don't know what your budget is, but here's what I got. I'm also in MB and do a lot of shooting in winter temps.

I bought a Rem 700 5R in 308 off the EE. There's actually one for sale on there now for a good price, I'd snag that one in a flash if I didn't have the exact one. I'm very impressed with this rifle. The barrel is a heavy varmint contour and at 24" a perfect length, IMO. Accuracy has been impressive so far, I shot a 3 shot group at 300 yards the other day which measured under 1". I'm sure others can do much better, but I was happy with that. Handloads were nothing special, I just went with a max load of RL15 behind a 168 gr. Sierra MatchKing with Max OAL. Maybe I got lucky with the accuracy on that load, but I'm sure it could be improved upon with some tinkering. However, I'm happy with that so I'll leave it. I got the trigger adjusted down to just under 2 lbs., so I figure that's good enough especially since I want to use the rifle for hunting as well.

I've found over the years that it's better to splurge on optics rather than continually upgrade, so I would suggest to bite the bullet the first time around and get a good quality scope. I put a Swarovski Z5 5-25 on mine and am also very impressed with this scope. There are a lot of options with scopes, but I think you'll have to figure on spending around $1000 or more to get a quality long range one.

I also ordered a McMillan A3 Sporter stock which I'm anxiously waiting to receive. Like I said, your interests may be different, but that's what I went with. I don't think you'll have issues with any bolt action rifle in cold temperatures, just so long as you don't over-oil. I don't oil the bolt or rifle much at all, spray a bit of G96 or CLP on a rag and wipe it down, that's about all. Never had an issue with any of my rifles.
 
K0na_stinky said:
Your load is going to change HUGE from +25 to -45*C.

So far shooting in the winter the only thing I have found is you have to work up your load for cold weather.

Just a little tip. Take your rifle outside in a sealed hard case, let it cool off and then take it out of the case. When bringing it back inside do the same. Let it fully warm up before you take it out of the case.
Click to expand...

Why do you do that? I never get to -45C, but I shoot my rifles in the coldest and warmest I can find, which is usually -33 ish to +33 ish. When I bring them home, I take them out of the case to warm up, wiping off any condensation that forms.

Agree on the loads. The nodes seem to change, though it is hard to tell if that is me. I more make sure my loads, particularly my hunting loads, are safe over the full temperature range.

bearkilr said:
I don't oil the bolt or rifle much at all, spray a bit of G96 or CLP on a rag and wipe it down, that's about all. Never had an issue with any of my rifles.
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For high round count rapid shooting, you will have to oil the 700 bolt much like you would an AR, or it will gall, and become hard to work. At least that is what I found.
 
carbonrod said:
Why do you do that? I never get to -45C, but I shoot my rifles in the coldest and warmest I can find, which is usually -33 ish to +33 ish. When I bring them home, I take them out of the case to warm up, wiping off any condensation that forms.

Agree on the loads. The nodes seem to change, though it is hard to tell if that is me. I more make sure my loads, particularly my hunting loads, are safe over the full temperature range.
Click to expand...

If you leave your rifle in the case no moisture makes it to the rifle, it just forms on the case. (I have a range finder, Kestrel weather-station, cleaning rod and lots of other things in my case so cleaning the condensation off everything would be a pain.) Also I would never go shooting in -45.

From what I have found the nodes don't change. Just the amount of powder required to get to the desired velocity changes.
 
K0na_stinky said:
If you leave your rifle in the case no moisture makes it to the rifle, it just forms on the case. (I have a range finder, Kestrel weather-station, cleaning rod and lots of other things in my case so cleaning the condensation off everything would be a pain.) Also I would never go shooting in -45.
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Oh. Hmm. I'll try it. On cold days, it isn't uncommon for moisture to be on/in the gun before It gets into the case though. I wipe it down, but figured that I probably wasn't getting it all.
 
Can't speak for big bore rifles in the cold, but on my shotgun, dry lithium powder works much better in the winter than oil for lubricating the various bits.

x2 on the need for developing different loads in Winter & Summer. Even with my Hornet I saw a slight difference when using the same load year round.
 
carbonrod said:
Oh. Hmm. I'll try it. On cold days, it isn't uncommon for moisture to be on/in the gun before It gets into the case though. I wipe it down, but figured that I probably wasn't getting it all.
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You have to leave the rifle in the case and sit it out in the cold for a long while to cool down to outside temps. This should stop pretty much all moisture from making it to the rifle. You need a water proof case though. Not a Canadiantire hard case.

I got this idea from my Dad. Thats what photographers do with their camera gear.
 
It's also recommend to re-check the torque on all bolts after extreme swings in temperature. Action bolts can loosen up when going to extreme cold.
 
like was mentioned before, your best bet is to buy something all ready made. Cold weather rigs are a whole different kettle of fish. There are two guns which will fit the bill the AI AW in the caliber of your choice and the Sako TRG. PWG makes accurate rigs and are Canadian and will work well also. don't get too caught up in lubes, just buy a little tin of Eezox and you will be good to go for many winters to come.

the Sako TRG is the least affected by significant temp changes fwiw.
 
K0na_stinky said:
You have to leave the rifle in the case and sit it out in the cold for a long while to cool down to outside temps. This should stop pretty much all moisture from making it to the rifle. You need a water proof case though. Not a Canadiantire hard case.

I got this idea from my Dad. Thats what photographers do with their camera gear.
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A warm rifle going into cold temps doesn't accumulate any moisture, it's only from cold to warm, due to condensation.
I would suspect you'd have to leave a cold rifle in the case for an awfully long time before it would be at room temp. I have a rifle in my truck during the day pretty much every day, it lays on the back seat. I bring it inside in the evening and just put it in the safe. Never had an issue with rust, but then I do clean my rifles periodically and very lightly oil them as well. Leaving guns in a case for long periods is a definite recipe for rust.

At hunt camps or in severe cold, it's best to leave them in the cold when possible.
 
A scope may not work in extreme cold - adjustments, variable power.
Put a selection of lubes out in the cold overnight to find out which ones will work in the cold.
I always let my rifles warm up in their cases after coming inside. Far less condensation.
Cold does affect ammunition. Sometimes dramatically. Muzzle velocity will drop. Zeros will be affected. Don't work up a load in extreme cold conditions, and then shoot it in hot weather.
There are warnings that extreme cold can affect some powders more than others. In particular, double based powders may become dangerous.
Some barrel makers are concerned about stainless steel barrels becoming brittle in extreme cold.
Wear thin contact gloves under your mitts, so that it is not necessary for bare skin to touch metal.
In 30 years north of 60, I only ever shot at -45 degrees once, during the team trials in Yellowknife for the Arctic Winter Games. -45 isn't all that common. Wind chill equivalent of -45 is, but that affects people not firearms.
Properly prepared, most firearms will function in the cold.
 
wildernessguy said:
Hi there, in my quest to put together my ideal entry level target/precision rifle, I am at the stage of consdiering the conditions in which it will be used. As I am still new to the precision realm, I am wondering which parts would be most affected by temps as cold as -45 or so. Reason being, I tend to get out of the city just as much in the winter for ice fishing, etc and thought some Manitoba winter target practice may have some fun factor to it. Quite frankly, if you live here you need to embrace winter to have enough fun outdoors to keep you going......

So I am wondering what type of consdierations should be placed on the stock, barrel, action, bedding, etc in order to put something reliable together for extreme cold conditions. I would really like to put the time in now to put together the best shooter I can for my use, so I do not have to swap out a pile of parts later and pay for things twice.

I would be greatful for any suggestions as which direction I should take. Pretty much decided on a heavy barrel .308 to start so I can do some hunting with it also.

Thanks!!
Click to expand...

Most any bolt rifle will work in that cold. Forget about the vault tight BR style actions. Watch the lube used especially on the firing pin and spring.

Some synthetic lubes will go that cold. dry lube like a teflon or graphite might be better. Running the spring dry shouldn't hurt. Go syn grease for the lugs - see temp ratings.

Consider CM barrels. SS has a rep for not liking extreme cold - urban legend?

Consider laminated stocks. Some composites/fiberglass get brittle in the cold. Many plastics work just fine.

Alum bedding would likely give the least fuss - still properly bed with a quality epoxy steel.

Choate is a good option to consider.

Increase the powder charge to compensate for the cold BUT realise, that barrel is going to go through massive temp swings from ambient to whenever you stop. Properly stressed relieved match barrels will likely give you the least grief as it temp cycles.

Not sure how scopes will react to the cold - don't shoot in weather that cold. Love to hear how you make out. be careful of thermal shocks.

Definitely swab bore when it warms up. It WILL be wet.

Jerry
 
wildernessguy said:
Hi there, in my quest to put together my ideal entry level target/precision rifle, I am at the stage of consdiering the conditions in which it will be used. As I am still new to the precision realm, I am wondering which parts would be most affected by temps as cold as -45 or so. Reason being, I tend to get out of the city just as much in the winter for ice fishing, etc and thought some Manitoba winter target practice may have some fun factor to it. Quite frankly, if you live here you need to embrace winter to have enough fun outdoors to keep you going......

So I am wondering what type of consdierations should be placed on the stock, barrel, action, bedding, etc in order to put something reliable together for extreme cold conditions. I would really like to put the time in now to put together the best shooter I can for my use, so I do not have to swap out a pile of parts later and pay for things twice.

I would be greatful for any suggestions as which direction I should take. Pretty much decided on a heavy barrel .308 to start so I can do some hunting with it also.

Thanks!!
Click to expand...

If you have the $$$$ a PGW Coyote would be the top end pick- http://pgwdti.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=6

Any good bolt gun will work just get out and play- My Savage can do this but I am the weak link when it gets cold;)
PicsJan16-11005.jpg
 
wildernessguy said:
As I am still new to the precision realm, I am wondering which parts would be most affected by temps as cold as -45 or so. Reason being, I tend to get out of the city just as much in the winter for ice fishing, etc and thought some Manitoba winter target practice may have some fun factor to it. Quite frankly, if you live here you need to embrace winter to have enough fun outdoors to keep you going......
Click to expand...

As a side note, I think you'll be OK with pretty much any rifle in our temps. When's the last time ambient temp was -45 in daylight hours around Winnipeg? I don't even think Churchill has hit that in recent years.

I'd figure mid to low -20's as a daytime high is as cold as we've seen in the last decade. Unless you plan to move to Alert, you should be fine with whatever you choose providing you keep your lube amount to a minimum. :ar15:
 
To be honest the Inuit have been hunting with shelf rifles for years, with factory ammo, the cold affects the human more than the rifle.
 
Not too many hunters up here (nunavut) will use remington in the winter, i've yet to have a problem with my savages but I really haven't taken them out in the cold too much.Everybody around here shoots ruger and I myself shot ruger's my whole life down to about minus 35 without issues but ruger actions aren't overly popular in the precision rifle game... And the stainless steel vs CM thing is not really that big of a deal, 90% of hunters up here shoot stainless without issues.
 
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