I agree with your correction that it is more accurately stated as velocity for the particular bullet's construction that makes it perform as intended.
Shot placement, bullets, rifles...
- Thread starter sealhunter
- Start date
I agree with your correction that it is more accurately stated as velocity for the particular bullet's construction that makes it perform as intended.
Well, I probably should be retired, but have been asked by my employer if I would stay a bit longer, lol
As for wisdom...that is a difficult quality to acquire, I must say.
And, I agree for the most part, bones on a deer are not that heavy.
Believe it or not, I have seen that shoulder/upper leg bone on a deer cause disintegration of lightly constructed C&C bullets, in which case, the bullet did not penetrate the heart-lung area.
I had a very strange experience once on a 4x4 Whitetail buck, broadside at 80yards. I shot him with my 270, using a popular 140 grain SPBT bullet @ 2950MV.
It hit a rib, and completely exploded, leaving a large surface wound, but failing to penetrate the cavity.
Fortunately, it dazed him a bit, and he ran only 35 yards, then stopped long enough to send a second bullet on it's way.
This bullet did the job properly, and he dropped within 20 feet.
The autopsy showed the absolute lack of penetration of that first projectile.
Why did this happen? I have no idea...a deer's rib is pretty light stuff.
Suffice to say, had it been a Partition, I would not have needed that second shot.
As you stated, if one is hunting where larger game may be encountered/taken, then the premium makes even more sense.
You are to be commended for paying attention to your personal results.
After all, our common goal is to take game cleanly, with as little suffering as possible.
Regards, Eagleye.
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Translation: "You want the antlers so bad that you're willing to try and shoot the deer through the ham or the arse."
I've shot lots of game through the hams, and it had nothing to do with antlers. I use TSX/TTSX bullets for these kind of scenarios, though, so I've never had a problem destroying the vitals at the same time, while eating up to the hole. The same shot with a Sierra GK, AB, IL, etc, has proven to destroy too much meat for my liking.
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
A friend of mine likes to say "shoot a bullet long enough, and it'll eventually make you go 'hmmmm...', regardless of the bullet"
I agree with that statement. There isn't a bullet out there that hasn't failed to perform before, and will fail to perform again. Some bullets just fail to perform as intended more often than others do.
I just pass on that shot.
Well, maybe.
I have shot well over 100 head of game with Partitions, and have had no failures ...yet... lol.
I have quite a collection of recovered bullets at home, and some, while I recovered the animal they came out of, left me completely aghast at their performance.
I have moved away from conventional bullets for anything bigger than predators like coyotes, etc.
Regards, Eagleye.
ninepointer
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
That sums it up. Sorry Eagle, I see that I've wrongly interpretted your earlier words.
Your friend has a point. I haven't had this happen to me in the sense of a bullet "blowing-up" prematurely. However, I did experience a short string of kills in which Core-Lokts "pencilled" through deer like a FMJ. But then the 2 bucks I shot this past season erased that "hmmmm..." feeling.
So... without turning this into a muck as that is not my intention, which of these bullets do you think is better suited for creating an dexit hole and good blood trail in thick cover?.....
Senior thinks otherwise... and is entitled to his opinion... yet he says a good bullet for deer should be able to create a good exit wound and blood trail.... (something I agree with)... I am just wondering, if that is his criteria, why he would tout a 30-30......
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Well the 30-30 in the pic I know has a bullet designed for 30-30 velocities, they are excellent bullets that perform wonderfully in a 30-30. I rarely see a 30-30 bullet not exit a deer.
The other cartridge I cannot comment on, if it's a factory 270 with 150s, they will be constructed more stoutly for bigger game & they to rarely fail to exit a deer. But since I don't know what it is how do you expect me to predict it's performance on an animal
& just so you don't get even more confused, I carry a 38-55, a .33wcf, a 308 or 280 for most of my deer hunting, I have used 30-30s occasionally (even have a nice Sav99 in that cal) & have seen numerous deer shot virtually every year in our camp with 30-30s. I may not have as much experience as you down on the 401 but I have seen a few things in my life.
I will "tout" as you call it the old 30-30 any & all day long because it works!
That sums it up. Sorry Eagle, I see that I've wrongly interpretted your earlier words.
Apology accepted, with thanks.
Your friend has a point. I haven't had this happen to me in the sense of a bullet "blowing-up" prematurely. However, I did experience a short string of kills in which Core-Lokts "pencilled" through deer like a FMJ. But then the 2 bucks I shot this past season erased that "hmmmm..." feeling.
You may remember in an earlier post, I mentioned a lost muley due to a bullet "pencilling" through.
That was a case of a heavy for caliber bullet with a reputation of slow expansion. [220 grain 30 cal]
A round-nose softpoint with just a pinhead sized lead tip exposed.
Better suited to :much: larger game.
I shot a Bull Moose this year with my 308 Norma Mag [about 80-90 yards]
A 180 grain TTSX, started at 3100+. It exited, leaving a hole the size of a 50 cent piece...Moose, DRT. Lungs demolished.
That is what I like!!
Cheers, Eagleye
Well the 30-30 in the pic I know has a bullet designed for 30-30 velocities, they are excellent bullets that perform wonderfully in a 30-30. I rarely see a 30-30 bullet not exit a deer.
The other cartridge I cannot comment on, if it's a factory 270 with 150s, they will be constructed more stoutly for bigger game & they to rarely fail to exit a deer. But since I don't know what it is how do you expect me to predict it's performance on an animal
& just so you don't get even more confused, I carry a 38-55, a .33wcf, a 308 or 280 for most of my deer hunting, I have used 30-30s occasionally (even have a nice Sav99 in that cal) & have seen numerous deer shot virtually every year in our camp with 30-30s. I may not have as much experience as you down on the 401 but I have seen a few things in my life.
I will "tout" as you call it the old 30-30 any & all day long because it works!
He he.... simmer down man... you are going to give yourself a clanger... the other bullet is a .308... for reference purposes only... all I was pointing out is that a .30 -30 bullet is snub nose with more exposed lead and as such has less chance of passing through game... maybe in your experience it has always worked but not mine... must have something to do with the 401 area deer eh?.... LMAO...
I am not looking for some sideways argument here... it is a simple fact that snubsnose bullets with more exposed lead are designed to expand quicker than the controlled penetration of their counterparts... Most .30 - 30 cannot use these pointed bullets because of teh fact that they have tube mags...
Senior, with all due respect, this is a discussion forum... the world would be a very boring place if we all agreed on everything all the time.... let's not make this personal... you have your opinion and I have mine....
it is a simple fact that snubsnose bullets with more exposed lead are designed to expand quicker than the controlled penetration of their counterparts...
Those "snubnose" bullets are designed to expand & hold together, the second part highlighted is what makes them penetrate.
Much like a premium bullet is designed to do
Those "snubnose"
bullets are designed to expand & hold together, the second part highlighted is what makes them penetrate.Much like a premium bullet is designed to do
it is a simple fact that snubsnose bullets with more exposed lead are designed to expand quicker than the controlled penetration of their counterparts...
Those "snubnose"
Much like a premium bullet is designed to do
How do you figure a wider, already expanded bullet moving at a slower speed has a better or equal chance at a pass through than a held together controlled expansion bullet travelling at a greater speed?....
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I also tend to pass on ass-shooting my deer....
You've gotta do what you feel good about. I've passed on plenty of shots that I didn't feel comfortable with, but if I know that my bullet is going to reach the vitals and cause a very prompt death, I don't have a problem shooting at very steep quartering angles. It is my observation that animals shot at steep quartering angles, or facing toward or away, tend to exhibit the highest percentage of DRT kills, and tend to expire the most promptly, too. If the objective is to cause a quick, clean kill, I don't think it gets much quicker or cleaner.
Having said that, you have to use a bullet that you know will expand sufficiently and reach the vitals at whatever shot angle you choose to take.
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Yeah, with the better bullets you may have to use them for a LONG time before they make you scratch your head
I've killed and seen killed around 80 big-game animals with TSX/TTSX bullets, and I have yet to see anything that I would call a failure, so I know what you mean...What does the bullet have to pass through, to reach the vitals, when you shoot it in the azz end?
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
Again, this is where you fail to grasp bullet construction...
The only time you can compare bullets and their performance, based on calibre, is when they are identical bullets.... (remember that thing called S.D.)
If that 30-30 bullet is a Barnes X and the .308 is an AMAX
the 30-30 will win every time...
Bullets must be chosen for the velocity they will be engaging game and the performance you are looking for (penetration for example)
To hold up two cartridges and say this one will penetrate further cause it's pointy, is far , far, far, too basic an assumption for a guy who posts as much as you do
D)Take out the 30-30 bullet and throw up a 45/70...
which one do you think will penetrate further now...
it is a stubby bullet remember...
much much more to think about before making assumptions...
Even amongst bullets which same so similar, shot at the same velocity can have very different penetration and expansion.
The Barnes TSX and Hornady GMX are a prime example... both in 140 gr .284 shot at the fps can have quite varied results from one another...
Talking basics here... If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle... If you think bullets are so important them 3o-30 is a #### choice because you are linited on how pointy the nose is as you wouldn't want them gopoing off in the tube mag...
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
not limited in the construction though, and certainly not limited in the numerous offerings that are capable of taking big game very effectively...
You'll get it yet!!!!
A few of us have decided to take shifts until you have a knowledge base that correlates with your post count
