Shot placement, bullets, rifles...

Grizzlypeg said:
What does the bullet have to pass through, to reach the vitals, when you shoot it in the azz end?
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Nothing that a TSX/TTSX can't punch through.

I've busted too many femurs, punched through too many abdominal cavities, wrecked too many hearts/lungs, and busted too many humerus bones, before having the bullets exit in front of the offside shoulder, to think that it doesn't work. Because it does.

Even if you're not confident that your bullet will sail through the paunch, a hit to the base of the tail will put the critter down pretty quick, ready for a finisher shot. I'm not a proponent of doing that, but how many guys will shoot an animal in the spine, expecting to finish the job with a second shot once the animal is on the ground and disabled? What is the difference between shooting the spine in the front half, and shooting the same spine in the back half, only to need a second shot as a finisher anyway?

I know from experience that the TSX/TTSX will go end to end on big deer, large 450-500lbs bear, sheep, antelope, etc, assuming sufficient velocity and momentum, and that means game over. No finisher required.
 
A pointed bullet that penetrates deep is nothing new, it will do that especially with little or no expansion, the more it expands the less it penetrates. Far more effective is a very heavy wide flat point cast bullet, that will cause more damage, penetrate deeper, and straighter, even if it doesn't expand. Bullets that don't expand much may over penetrate on broadside shots and do little damage. There is no magic bullet, a standard cup and core bullet that is long and heavy for caliber is the best compromise in the smaller calibers.
 
Superbrad said:
He he.... simmer down man... you are going to give yourself a clanger... the other bullet is a .308... for reference purposes only... all I was pointing out is that a .30 -30 bullet is snub nose with more exposed lead and as such has less chance of passing through game... maybe in your experience it has always worked but not mine... must have something to do with the 401 area deer eh?.... LMAO...

I am not looking for some sideways argument here... it is a simple fact that snubsnose bullets with more exposed lead are designed to expand quicker than the controlled penetration of their counterparts... Most .30 - 30 cannot use these pointed bullets because of teh fact that they have tube mags...

Senior, with all due respect, this is a discussion forum... the world would be a very boring place if we all agreed on everything all the time.... let's not make this personal... you have your opinion and I have mine....
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How much penatration do we really need on a deer. Relativly fast expanding is better for deer IMO. Were not talking buffalo here and a deer sure aint that hard to kill
 
ryan32 said:
How much penatration do we really need on a deer. Relativly fast expanding is better for deer IMO. Were not talking buffalo here and a deer sure aint that hard to kill
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Was discussing how a pointed faster round has better chance of pass through... Not saying snubnose won't kill a deer...
 
sealhunter said:
not limited in the construction though, and certainly not limited in the numerous offerings that are capable of taking big game very effectively...

You'll get it yet!!!!

A few of us have decided to take shifts until you have a knowledge base that correlates with your post count ;) :D
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Absolutely bullet construction is important.... I don't recall saying it wasn't....

That being said, there is a lot more that you can do as a manufacturer with a .308 bullet than you can do with a .30-30 bullet.... .30-30 has to be snub nose .308 can be snub nose or it can be pointed.... this allows for more options as far as aerodynamics and controlled penetration....

Yes... you can change the construction of a .30-30 to improve penetration ability... but you will never give it the same ability as another round with the same bullet construction or better that has many more load options....

Some here say they always have pass throughs with their 30-30.... that hasn't been my experience... let's also keep in mind that everyone appreciates different characteristics.... if my deer ends up running even 30 yards I want a trail behind it that looks like it was running through the bush with an open can of red paint tied to it's tail....
 
Superbrad said:
I can't say I have taken as many as you with both rounds... 5 or 6 with the 30-30 and 15 or 16 with the .30-06.... I don't use fancy cartridges... just rem core lokt....
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Superbrad said:
Some here say they always have pass throughs with their 30-30.... that hasn't been my experience...
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Your experience is rather limited with 5-6 deer with a 30-30...Same bullet probably...150gr would be my guess...How many of the 5-6, did you not get pass throughs????

I recall my father using 150gr(imperial saber tips) for a short time in his Savage 170...He to was unimpressed as the bullets didn't go through...He switched back to 170gr, and never went back, and he never complained after....This is a man who has taken over 150 deer...Over 50% with a 30-30...
 
captonion said:
Your experience is rather limited with 5-6 deer with a 30-30...Same bullet probably...150gr would be my guess...How many of the 5-6, did you not get pass throughs????

I recall my father using 150gr(imperial saber tips) for a short time in his Savage 170...He to was unimpressed as the bullets didn't go through...He switched back to 170gr, and never went back, and he never complained after....This is a man who has taken over 150 deer...Over 50% with a 30-30...
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At least half weren't pass throughs.... but yes... 150 gr.... and saw many others with same issue.... but you are right, my 30-30 experience is limited to maybe a dozen deer or so in total... and with a less than "modern" round... I'll give you that...
 
sealhunter said:
not limited in the construction though, and certainly not limited in the numerous offerings that are capable of taking big game very effectively...

You'll get it yet!!!!

A few of us have decided to take shifts until you have a knowledge base that correlates with your post count ;) :D
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I doubt it, I started questioning his credentials when he started telling us how he started tracking, watching scrapes & rubs a couple months before the season, then again, maybe his bucks down on the 401 start rutting much earlier than they do in the rest of the country :confused:
 
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well....

I just went down to the freezer an pulled out my deer...
I says, "hey...do you know what you were shot with"

he says, "Just guessin, but I think it was .280"

so I says ," no, it was a 30-30"

"you gotta be s**ttin me!" says the deer

I say, "no s**ttin here mr black nose"

Well wahta laugh we had...

He thought no one used the 30-30 anymore. He also recalled the scary bedtime stories he was told about sectional density, big calibres, whiz bang magnums, by his Dad when he was just a fawn... "even though we knew they werent true, they still sounded scary...lol"

So we ended up haing a scotch and discussing firearms, bullets, brush busting and My little Pony (we're both big fans), well into the night...

We were sat on the couch and he says "ya semll that?" :D

stinky bastard, I said "you're rotten!!!!"

He said, "I will be if ya dont get me off the couch and back in the freezer :D:DBwaaaawaawaaahaahwawawa!!!!!!"

God what a sense of humor he has..
 
senior said:
I doubt it, I knew he was not much more than a green poser when he started telling us how he started tracking, watching scrapes & rubs a couple months before the season, then again, maybe his bucks down on the 401 start rutting much earlier than they do in the rest of the country :confused:
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Ok.... let me tell you a little secret.... you may want to take this with a grain of salt here you know... I am a "city boy".... so correct me if I am wrong but here near the 401 bucks get this velvety stuff on their antlers as they grow.... for one reason or another when August comes around they start to shed that velvety stuff... almost in preparation for something (I wonder what that could be?)..... for one reason or another they tend to use the trees to rub it off.... Sometimes (and I may be wrong, after all I only live on 400 acres of bush)... they want to show smaller bucks their dominance... again in preparation for something (not sure what)... so they will scrape teh ground to show their presence and size.... I know... it's hard to believe that deer could leave signs of their presence before the rut.... I thought that god just puts them up on a shelf somewhere until November too but go figure!.....

Oh... here's a picture of my backyard..... thought you might like it... amazing how these creatures can get there through all of the traffic and skyscrapers....


backyard.jpg



Now... feel free to go back to your Hot Cocoa and latest edition of "Grumpy Old Know it All Weekly"...... I'll just sit here and wait for my mail, whcih here in the big city gets delivered by car for some reason....
 
sealhunter said:
well....

I just went down to the freezer an pulled out my deer...
I says, "hey...do you know what you were shot with"

he says, "Just guessin, but I think it was .280"

so I says ," no, it was a 30-30"

"you gotta be s**ttin me!" says the deer

I say, "no s**ttin here mr black nose"

Well wahta laugh we had...

He thought no one used the 30-30 anymore. He also recalled the scary bedtime stories he was told about sectional density, big calibres, whiz bang magnums, by his Dad when he was just a fawn... "even though we knew they werent true, they still sounded scary...lol"

So we ended up haing a scotch and discussing firearms, bullets, brush busting and My little Pony (we're both big fans), well into the night...

We were sat on the couch and he says "ya semll that?" :D

stinky bastard, I said "you're rotten!!!!"

He said, "I will be if ya dont get me off the couch and back in the freezer :D:DBwaaaawaawaaahaahwawawa!!!!!!"

God what a sense of humor he has..
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Damn... I got all excited... I ran downstairs and opened my freezer up.... all I saw were a bunch of pepperettes and sausage... but I coulda swore I heard the word "ouch"

How come you didn't shoot Mr. Blacknose with that 270 wsm wizzbang magnum you say you now use?.....lol.... and here I thought my .30-06 was sufficient.... :)
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the .30-30 is restricted to tube-fed, lever-action rifles. Seems to me that there might be a bolt gun, or two, floating around chambered in .30-30, and they can use whatever .308" bullet your .30-06 can.

Even the lever guns can use Flex-tips, which are spitzer bullet designed for .30-30 lever actions...
 
Jordan Smith said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the .30-30 is restricted to tube-fed, lever-action rifles. Seems to me that there might be a bolt gun, or two, floating around chambered in .30-30, and they can use whatever .308" bullet your .30-06 can.

Even the lever guns can use Flex-tips, which are spitzer bullet designed for .30-30 lever actions...
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Absolutely... but bolt 30-30's are very rare... and many still wouldn't recommend using flex tips in a tube mag for hunting.... not as much for the safety reasons they site for metal tipped bullets but due to the fact that constant loading and unloading during hunting tends to damage the tips and throws the rounds off....
 
Damaged tips have little, if any, effect on bullet travel or impact.
Many tests done to prove this.
I have personally done some.
A damaged base is another story.
Eagleye
 
Jordan Smith said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the .30-30 is restricted to tube-fed, lever-action rifles. Seems to me that there might be a bolt gun, or two, floating around chambered in .30-30, and they can use whatever .308" bullet your .30-06 can.

Even the lever guns can use Flex-tips, which are spitzer bullet designed for .30-30 lever actions...
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Savage made two models in the 30-30, other than their lever action. The model 340 manufactured in a bolt action and the model 170 in a pump. However, I think that the pump might of been tube fed. Both models are utilitarian, but still an effect cartridge with a bullet tight behind the front leg, however the range and markmanship are limited with this cartridge and the user. I guess that the best source of information on the lever action would be someone from Ontario, Quebec or the New England states where this firearm and cartridge is utilized frequently today.
 
Eagleye said:
Damaged tips have little, if any, effect on bullet travel or impact.
Many tests done to prove this.
I have personally done some.
A damaged base is another story.
Eagleye
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Sorry EagleEye.... my bad... I wasn't referring to the trajectory of the rounds but rather throws them off kilter when trying to chamber them... poorly worded on my part....
 
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