DIY Antique status form

oldiron

oldiron

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Someone on this forum had made up a do-it-yourself form for antiques. It was a well done piece, and I can't find it now. I was going to use it, and print the Antique regs on the back. Anyone Know where it might be?
And thanks to the CGNer that made it. Bill..
 
Skinny 1950 said:
More specifically the "Antique Firearm Status Determination Flow Chart". Kindly posted by Colt 41
Click to expand...

There is the flowchart, but I wonder if he means my letter?

wloi6v.jpg


Here is a text version:

ANTIQUE FIREARM STATUS

This firearm meets the definition of an "antique firearm" as set out in the Criminal Code of Canada under
subsection 84(1). Pursuant to subsection 84(3)(a) of the Criminal Code of Canada "antique firearms" are
deemed not to be a firearm.

For the purposes of sections 91 - 95 of the Criminal Code of Canada possession of any "antique firearm"
without a licence or registration certificate is legal. Possession of any "antique firearm" at any location
including being in a motor vehicle is legal. Being in possession of a loaded "antique firearm" or one with
ammunition that is readily accessible is legal even if the person is not the holder of any licence, registration
certificate, ATT, or ATC.

Under section 117.03 of the Criminal Code of Canada no peace officer who finds a person in possession of
any "antique firearm" is authorized to demand that the person present a licence, registration certificate,
ATT, or ATC.


Rifles:
  • manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short,
    22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
  • manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges (whether with a smooth or
    rifled bore), have a bore diameter of 8.3 mm or greater, measured from land to land in the case of a
    rifled bore, with the exception of a repeating firearm fed by any type of cartridge magazine

Shotguns:
  • manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short,
    22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
  • manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges, other than 10, 12, 16, 20, 28,
    or 410 gauge cartridges

Handguns:
  • manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short,
    22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
  • manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed
    or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson
    Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson; 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester,
    44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges


Make:

Model:

Serial Number:

Caliber:
 
Yup, great chart. but the form I was looking for was to fill in the blanks as to make, model, SN, cal, year etc. Something to put with an antique when transporting or shipping. With the antiques regs on the back, might be easier than explaining stuff to those with questions. Thanks, Bill..

Beat me to it. Thats the one I couldn't find. And all on one page. Thanks Colt. I'll borrow it if you don't mind.
 
Last edited:
OK, let me get this right: I can print this page off, fill in the proper info and "BAM", I've got an official antique letter? Could a guy do this when buying from the US? As in, getting the proper info and sending the seller this page for him to put in the package?

Thanks.

Ti
 
It's not official by any means, but better outlines what makes a gun antique then an RCMP letter.
 
I think what you are looking for is the sticky link to CFC antique regs. On page two you will find the regs scanned in. Print those off and carry them with you and know which apply to your particular gun.

cheers mooncoon
 
Can someone remind me of the correct answer.

From SOR 98-464:

other than a handgun designed
or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson
Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson; 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester,
44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges

SOR 98-464 says the following in defining an antique handgun:

A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson, 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges.

designed or adapted

How is it then that antiques converted to shoot modern cartridges (45 acp not on list or 45 colt is on list )are not excluded from antique status? We see them sold here all the time as prescribed antiques.
 
Grizzlypeg said:
Can someone remind me of the correct answer.

From SOR 98-464:

other than a handgun designed
or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson
Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson; 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester,
44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges

SOR 98-464 says the following:

A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson, 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges.

designed or adapted

How is it then that antiques converted to shoot modern cartridges (45 acp or 45 colt )are not excluded from antique status? We see them sold here all the time as prescribed antiques.
Click to expand...

Read it again... because they aren't adapted to shoot any of those listed calibers :) They are adapted to shoot 45ACP for example, which is not on that list ;)
 
randas said:
Read it again... because they aren't adapted to shoot any of those listed calibers :) They are adapted to shoot 45ACP for example, which is not on that list ;)
Click to expand...

I know a guy on here bought an antique colt SAA that had been converted to shoot 45 colt and was sold as an antique.
 
Grizzlypeg said:
I know a guy on here bought an antique colt SAA that had been converted to shoot 45 colt and was sold as an antique.
Click to expand...

That ain't right. Something tells me the conversion was done to an antique gun and the CFC was never notified of it's return to restricted status if what you say is correct.
 
randas said:
Sorry, yeah read your post too fast, 45 colt is on the list so that's a no-go

But 45ACP is good to go
Click to expand...

Thanks. I appreciate your insight. I don't think you read it too fast, after I thought about it, I edited the post to differentiate between 45acp that isn't on the list and 45 colt that it.

As for the guy that bought the Colt 45, that was a long time ago. None of my business.
 
OK, instead of looking like a complete fool and assuming, I'll just ask.:redface: When buying from the US, what do you guys do "when you want" to have an antique letter for the gun before it gets shipped over? I know you really dont "need" a letter, but for being on the safe side.

Thanks.

Ti
 
To be on the safe side I have the guy state the Make, Model, Caliber, Serial NUmber, DOB and that it's a pre 1897 antique of an obsolete caliber and put all that on the customs form or on some letter inside or fixed outside the box. I've done this method as well as the RCMP antique letter and really haven't noticed a difference when it crosses the border.

As for the 45 Colt handgun, I think there is a cartridge that is antique but a 45 Colt can chamber in it but it still falls under antique status because it's designed for the other cartridge. Much like 38 Colt chambers in 38spl guns but I have a lettered .38spl antique that began life as a 38 Colt.
 
PAINTBALL GUY 3 said:
OK, instead of looking like a complete fool and assuming, I'll just ask.:redface: When buying from the US, what do you guys do "when you want" to have an antique letter for the gun before it gets shipped over? I know you really dont "need" a letter, but for being on the safe side.

Thanks.

Ti
Click to expand...

I made this one up some time ago for importing antiques from the US,it cites both US and Canadian laws. I send a copy to the seller and have him/her fill it out,sign it and include it with the iron when shipped.
It has worked remarkably well in speeding things through customs.
You could add the section for rifles etc if they apply to your specific import.
When you are buying long range and going solely by pictures and the sellers representation I think it is important to have THEIR signature verifying the iron as antique according to the laws of both countries.
I ask beforehand if they will fill it out for shipping.
If they decline...I pass!

( it looks more professional as a word doc. ;) )
______________________________________________________________
Declaration of Compliance

This package contains antique firearms manufactured prior to 1898 and are chambered for cartridges which are considered obsolete and in compliance with Canadian Regulations Prescribing Antique Firearms:
1. The firearms listed in the schedule are antique firearms for the purposes of paragraph (b) of the definition “antique firearm” in subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code. 7. A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson, 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges.
To wit:
These antique firearms are also compliant with United States law, GCA of 1968, Title 18 USC Chapter 44 SS921 (16) "Antique Firearms" and may be bought, sold, and shipped with no regulations as per the U.S. Laws.

Specifically, this package contains:

Qty__Make/Model________________Age___Caliber_______Serial#_________

Buyer:


Seller:


Value:

Signature:_________________________Date_______/_______/________

________________________________________________________________

I also keep a copy of this handy as it covers most of the areas a fella needs:


Regulations Prescribing Antique Firearms

SOR/98-464

CRIMINAL CODE

His Excellency the Governor General in Council, on the recommendation of the Minister of Justice, pursuant to the definitions “prescribed”a and “antique firearm”a in subsection 84(1) and to subsection 117.15(1)a of the Criminal Code, hereby makes the annexed Regulations Prescribing Antique Firearms.

a S.C. 1995, c. 39, s. 139

Registration September 16, 1998

REGULATIONS PRESCRIBING ANTIQUE FIREARMS

PRESCRIPTION

1. The firearms listed in the schedule are antique firearms for the purposes of paragraph (b) of the definition “antique firearm” in subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code.

COMING INTO FORCE

2. These Regulations come into force on December 1, 1998.

SOR/98-472, s. 3.

SCHEDULE

(Section 1)

BLACK POWDER REPRODUCTIONS

1. A reproduction of a flintlock, wheel-lock or matchlock firearm, other than a handgun, manufactured after 1897.

RIFLES

2. A rifle manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges.

3. A rifle manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, whether with a smooth or rifled bore, having a bore diameter of 8.3 mm or greater, measured from land to land in the case of a rifled bore, with the exception of a repeating firearm fed by any type of cartridge magazine.

SHOTGUNS

4. A shotgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges.

5. A shotgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than 10, 12, 16, 20, 28 or 410 gauge cartridges.

HANDGUNS

6. A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges.

7. A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson, 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Under the current legislation, "any antique firearm" is not a "firearm" for the following purposes:

1. Firearms Act: None of the provisions of the Firearms Act, including those requiring registration, licences, ATTs and/or ATCs, apply to any "antique firearm."

2. CC s. 91 and 92: Possession of any "antique firearm" without a licence or registration certificate is legal.

3. CC s. 93: Possession of any "antique firearm" at any location is legal.

4. CC s. 94: Being in a motor vehicle with any "antique firearm" is legal.

5. CC s. 95: Being in possession of a loaded "antique firearm" (which is also a "restricted firearm" or a "prohibited firearm"), or one with readily accessible ammunition is legal even if the person is not the holder of any licence, registration certificate, ATT, or ATC.

6. CC s. 99: Transferring or offering to transfer any "antique firearm" is legal.

7. CC s. 100: Dealing in any type of any "antique firearm" is legal.

8. CC s. 101: Transferring any "antique firearm" is legal if the transfer apparently violates the Firearms Act.

9. CC s. 103 and 104: Importing or exporting any "antique firearm" is legal.

10. CC s. 105: Not reporting the loss or finding of any "antique firearm" is legal.

11. CC s. 106 and 107: Not reporting the destruction of any "antique firearm" is legal, and knowingly making a false report of that type to a firearms official or the police is legal.

12. CC s. 117.03: A peace officer who finds a person in possession of any "antique firearm" is not authorized to demand that the person present a licence, registration certificate, ATT, and/or ATC.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANTIQUE FIREARMS-storage,transport,display

14. (1) An individual may store, display or transport an antique firearm only if it is unloaded.

(2) An individual may transport an antique firearm in an unattended vehicle only if

(a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and

(b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the antique firearm, is securely locked.

(3) An individual may transport an antique firearm that is a handgun only if it is in a locked container that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot readily be broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation.
 
I think that part of the answer is that designed or adapted means currently capable of shooting a no go cartridge. Point being that most revolvers could be said to be designed to shoot any centerfire cartridge within a certain range of diameters but that would only be true if the cylinder was bored or bushed to chamber those cartridges and the barrel was of the correct bore for the same. If the cylinder is chambered to only accept 45 Schofield then it is not designed to shoot 45 long Colt even though you could find other guns of the same make chambered and capable of shooting a 45 long colt

cheers mooncoon
 
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