Steel shot and cylinder choke

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sherlockbonez

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So I've heard it both ways, it either shoots cylinder pattern because no constriction and all shots carries unimpeded and both lead and steel shoots the same. Alternately, I've heard it will throw an ic pattern. So which one is it?

I've shot ducks with the cyl choke on the extrema in small water settings and found it to be real good with even distribution of shots from neck to tail from several ducks i plucked. I think it's a good choke that's overlooked for many people.
 
The pattern with steel should be tighter than the pattern with lead. Upon firing, the lead will deform whereas the steel will not.

The only way to find out how a barrel/choke/ammo patterns is to shoot the combo on paper.
 
sherlockbonez said:
So I've heard it both ways, it either shoots cylinder pattern because no constriction and all shots carries unimpeded and both lead and steel shoots the same. Alternately, I've heard it will throw an ic pattern. So which one is it?

I've shot ducks with the cyl choke on the extrema in small water settings and found it to be real good with even distribution of shots from neck to tail from several ducks i plucked. I think it's a good choke that's overlooked for many people.
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You are joking right?? IC yes in steel will pattern like an old lead modified but a cylinder choke. Do you shoot slugs at ducks??
Simple question if steel worked well with them why are they not supplied with new firearms. It will throw a pattern all right one you could toss a cat through at may be 20 yards max
But hey if it works in your gun so be it
 
3macs1 said:
You are joking right?? IC yes in steel will pattern like an old lead modified but a cylinder choke. Do you shoot slugs at ducks??
Simple question if steel worked well with them why are they not supplied with new firearms. It will throw a pattern all right one you could toss a cat through at may be 20 yards max
But hey if it works in your gun so be it
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Could be shooting one of the new loads with the wad that sticks with the pattern for the first few yards.

I've seen the new extra-High velocity loads do some funny things when shot through lightly choked barrels.

Cylinder is supplied with most higher end guns, Benelli's and Beretta's for example. The Big manufacturers save bundles by only including only the three most commonly used chokes with their cheaper guns. Even the higher end remington semi's used to come with cylinder, the CTI did for a short time atleast.
 
Turkeyslayer 1300 said:
Could be shooting one of the new loads with the wad that sticks with the pattern for the first few yards.

I've seen the new extra-High velocity loads do some funny things when shot through lightly choked barrels.

Cylinder is supplied with most higher end guns, Benelli's and Beretta's for example. The Big manufacturers save bundles by only including only the three most commonly used chokes with their cheaper guns. Even the higher end remington semi's used to come with cylinder, the CTI did for a short time atleast.
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Yep I had some of those wads that stay with the shot about 10 years ago when BP sent me a bag of sam1's not cut and I missed it reloading them. Talk about slugs at 40 years:D Nothing to do with high end guns in my mind more like guns used in competitions are supplied with cylinder etc since some guys use them in skeet and for ground rabbits in clays. (thinking the wider pattern will chip a few extra birds for them) Both of my newer 1100 28 and 410 sportings have them.
To each their own but all I can see it for is slug shooting or law enforcement. If a skeet choke has to supply about 50% @40 why would one drop back to cylinder and get 40%.take care:)
Some big differences
 
3macs1 said:
You are joking right?? ...Do you shoot slugs at ducks??
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3macs1 said:
No one is losing their poop over it just you.. Don't ask for feedback if you don't want it:)
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I thought the OP's question was very legit.

I'm not sure why a comparison of patterns between lead and steel could be construed as a joke...and you are the one who introduced duck hunting with slugs.
 
Lodi said:
I thought the OP's question was very legit.

I'm not sure why a comparison of patterns between lead and steel could be construed as a joke...and you are the one who introduced duck hunting with slugs.
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You are missing the entire point, comparisons between lead and steel in chokes is common. Shooting steel out of a cylinder choke is a new one on me and probally every duck hunter out there.Sorry but I reload a lot of steel and pound ducks and paper with it trying more chokes than the average guy to get that best pattern for my gun and I just cannot for the life of me see any advantage of a cylinder choke when shooting steel that is all. All I see is more crippled ducks
Cylinder choke tubes are usually used in law enforcement, shooting slugs and the odd guy that thinks he is a better skeet shooter with them.
That is all I was getting at nothing more. The op has been around shot guns and is no newbie and hey if it patterns well in his gun great then I would be wondering what the actual bore is to see if it was stampled wrong.
Guys say they shoot geese with steel shot in 410's also which I think is a joke.:) Just one man's opinion.If others shoot ducks with steel shot and cylinder chokes I hope they chime in also. I am all ears. Not my intent to ruffle any feathers just hit me as a real strange thing to do.
 
OK here's the story. Me and my buddy started out 2011 season using nothing but the mod choke for clay and waterfowl. It used to only come out for turkey. Then one day he told me his buddy has been smashing birds with the sk choke in his xtrema. He told he to try it because i also have the same gun. I was hesitant and stuck with the mod choke that I used for years. After the next hunt and we both got our 6 birds, he told me he put a cyl choke in his. Skeptical I also tried it the next hunt with excellent results.

I also remember reading that when H&H re-released the pardox that the rifled choke will product a cyl patterned choke. Never having tried it before it planted an idea in my head that maybe cyl choked is useful for certain purpose.

Lastly, I asked here is because the manual in one guy say cyl choke gives cyl pattern with steel and another one say the opposite. I figure I can ask and maybe out of all the people in this country, someone may have done some extensive testing or know of such data that I would not have to try and shoot a few rounds out of each of my gun and drawing a half ass conclusion.

We can always goes back and talk about if the mp153 is suitable to home defense or if $20 red dot makes a good slug sight.
 
sherlockbonez said:
OK here's the story. Me and my buddy started out 2011 season using nothing but the mod choke for clay and waterfowl. It used to only come out for turkey. Then one day he told me his buddy has been smashing birds with the sk choke in his xtrema. He told he to try it because i also have the same gun. I was hesitant and stuck with the mod choke that I used for years. After the next hunt and we both got our 6 birds, he told me he put a cyl choke in his. Skeptical I also tried it the next hunt with excellent results.

I also remember reading that when H&H re-released the pardox that the rifled choke will product a cyl patterned choke. Never having tried it before it planted an idea in my head that maybe cyl choked is useful for certain purpose.

Lastly, I asked here is because the manual in one guy say cyl choke gives cyl pattern with steel and another one say the opposite. I figure I can ask and maybe out of all the people in this country, someone may have done some extensive testing or know of such data that I would not have to try and shoot a few rounds out of each of my gun and drawing a half ass conclusion.

We can always goes back and talk about if the mp153 is suitable to home defense or if $20 red dot makes a good slug sight.
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Like I said my comments are just one man's opinion. Be interesting to see if anyone chimes in that shoots steel with a cylinder choke. I have never heard or read anywhere that it is recommended for steel shot and waterfowl hunting. I try to tighten our patterns with steel not blow them wide open. I would be measuring that choke also just because it is stamped cylinder doesn't mean it is.take care:)
 
I have never heard or read about it either, that's why I"m asking. YOU are trying to tighten your pattern, I agree. I'm trying to not blow half the bird away or smoke half the head of a honker so they look more photogenic and not gross out the wife as much. I did not advocate that everyone needs to run out and shoot some ducks with cylinder. But if you have a situation that you know shots will be close, maybe it another option to try.

I have shot about 30 ducks with the cylinder choke since Nov when I'm hunting a small river and am not asking if I should or shouldn't. I'm just trying to see which of the manual is correct.

So far the only answer from you is that you do not know as you have never tried it, but it goes against everything you know about choking for fowl so you feel my question is pointless.
 
Throw the manual away, it is fairly obsolete. Much of info is from the era of the felt and cardboard wads with lead shot and where consistency in shotgun bore diameters from gun to gun was pretty iffy.

Shotgun data is being much more factual than it used to be. Choke exit diameters are used instead F/M/IC, ammo velocity is given in FPS instead of Dram Equivalents and shotgun bores are very precise in diameters.

The end result is still measured the same, a percentage of pellets in a given circle at a given distance.

With steel shot, in order to maintain the same pattern with larger shot sizes a more open choke is needed. I use IC almost exclusively anymore, the patterns are great. I've used Skeet 1 on numerous occasions and Cylinder just because. I have not given Sk-1 or Cyl as much testing as they probably deserve, but IC makes me happy. Sk-1 and Cyl are reserved for those super windy foggy mornings and they work well at those times.

With lead, I have used Cylinder a lot. Small pellets and fast shooting in dense cover.
 
sherlockbonez said:
I have never heard or read about it either, that's why I"m asking. YOU are trying to tighten your pattern, I agree. I'm trying to not blow half the bird away or smoke half the head of a honker so they look more photogenic and not gross out the wife as much. I did not advocate that everyone needs to run out and shoot some ducks with cylinder. But if you have a situation that you know shots will be close, maybe it another option to try.

I have shot about 30 ducks with the cylinder choke since Nov when I'm hunting a small river and am not asking if I should or shouldn't. I'm just trying to see which of the manual is correct.

So far the only answer from you is that you do not know as you have never tried it, but it goes against everything you know about choking for fowl so you feel my question is pointless.
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Yes sir that pretty well sums it up in my 40 plus years of reloading and shooting ducks. Nope I don't know and I would be suprised if you find someone here that does.
However I have not had time so far to research it either.What I have found out so far is 12ga Beretta's prior to dec 2006 came with tighter bores than standard 12ga, 0.722 vs the industry standard of 0.729 on other makes Did they carry that tightness in the choke tubes??? most definately.So based on the table below you with a cylinder choke in has 0.007 over a remington etc. The remington would have to put in his IC to get within 0.003 of your cylinder. So if true no wonder you are seeing it work at short distances. IC are recommended for steel over decoys.

Common Choke Restrictions Shotgun bore diameters
.000 restriction - cylinder
.005 restriction - skeet
.007 YOU
.010 restriction - improved cylinder
.015 restriction - light modified
.020 restriction - modified
.025 restriction - improved modified
.030 restriction - light full
.035 restriction - full
.040 restriction - extra full 10 gauge = .775 inches
12 gauge = .729 inches
16 gauge = .662 inches
20 gauge = .615 inches
28 gauge = .550 inches



Hey I have patterned many, many steel loads with IC and if I am on top of birds that works fine.All I shoot now are steel duplex loads which where developed from literally rolls of paper shooting but never with a cylinder choke..The head off a honker to me is a perfect shot. Your wife would love me since 80% of my bird hunting is with a 10ga.
All I can see is more ducks being crippled with the cylinder choke. But if it works for you great.
Still would be interesting to see what the real bore is Bet it is really closer to a industry standard IC...Measure it
 
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Try this one on. My old man shoots waterfowl with a cyl choke....out of a 18.5 inch Winchester Defender!!! Knocks them down just as good or better than his Mossberg 500 Waterfowl ;) I have watched him do it. He uses that garbage Winchester Xpert steel too.
 
3macs1 said:
Yes sir that pretty well sums it up in my 40 plus years of reloading and shooting ducks. Nope I don't know and I would be suprised if you find someone here that does.
However I have not had time so far to research it either.What I have found out so far is 12ga Beretta's prior to dec 2006 came with tighter bores than standard 12ga, 0.722 vs the industry standard of 0.729 on other makes Did they carry that tightness in the choke tubes??? most definately.So based on the table below you with a cylinder choke in has 0.007 over a remington etc. The remington would have to put in his IC to get within 0.003 of your cylinder. So if true no wonder you are seeing it work at short distances. IC are recommended for steel over decoys.

Common Choke Restrictions Shotgun bore diameters
.000 restriction - cylinder
.005 restriction - skeet
.007 YOU
.010 restriction - improved cylinder
.015 restriction - light modified
.020 restriction - modified
.025 restriction - improved modified
.030 restriction - light full
.035 restriction - full
.040 restriction - extra full 10 gauge = .775 inches
12 gauge = .729 inches
16 gauge = .662 inches
20 gauge = .615 inches
28 gauge = .550 inches



Hey I have patterned many, many steel loads with IC and if I am on top of birds that works fine.All I shoot now are steel duplex loads which where developed from literally rolls of paper shooting but never with a cylinder choke..The head off a honker to me is a perfect shot. Your wife would love me since 80% of my bird hunting is with a 10ga.
All I can see is more ducks being crippled with the cylinder choke. But if it works for you great.
Still would be interesting to see what the real bore is Bet it is really closer to a industry standard IC...Measure it
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I will have to my caliper from school to get a measurement. My beretta is an optima plus choke and should be oversized bore instead of under, but that would require measurements to confirm.

I agree a head shot on a goose is great, but one time I had one with it's beak dangling and the cat snatched it off when I wasn't looking, now the wife is horrified.

The only time I use that cyl choke is when we hunt ponds and rivers and most shots are 15 yards or so due to limited visibility from trees and brushes. The type of place where birds just drop right in with no room to swing. You can bet when march rolls around, I'll be orchestrating aerial backflips on those geese with the trusty mod choke that I have patterned several loads in.

No one likes to cripple birds, but I've seen people popping off that 3rd shot on a going away bird that lightly hit and have it fly and go down half a block away as well. Picking high percentage shots would limit unrecovered birds.

All the readings I've done has more or less described what hard shots would do through a constriction, I was wondering how it would compare to soft shots when it's fired through a straight tube with no restriction at the end.

One thing that I have found with cyl choke is that it patterns very evenly with small leads from the 2 guns I patterned with it.

When it warms a bit in the summer I guess I'll go take a few shots and see what the real story on paper is.
 
If it's OK with 3macs1, I too would like to know the answer to the OP's question :rolleyes:

We know steel patterns tighter out of IC, but would it in a Cyl. bore?

On one hand there is no restriction at the muzzle, but would how steel reacts to the forcing cone be different enough to deliver a tighter pattern? The other school of thought says that steel will pattern tighter simply due to leads tendency to deform, and the tighter groups may not be a function of choke (or lack thereof) at all.

Anybody have a definitive answer?

PS: I'm far from a newb, and if certain posters want to berate me for being curious I'd ask them to kindly f**k off right now and not sully the thread further. I don't care about your views or opinions, nor do I have to justify my curiousity to you. I want to know, that's all *you* need to know.

Thanks in advance :)

WW
 
Wrong Way said:
If it's OK with 3macs1, I too would like to know the answer to the OP's question :rolleyes:

We know steel patterns tighter out of IC, but would it in a Cyl. bore?

On one hand there is no restriction at the muzzle, but would how steel reacts to the forcing cone be different enough to deliver a tighter pattern? The other school of thought says that steel will pattern tighter simply due to leads tendency to deform, and the tighter groups may not be a function of choke (or lack thereof) at all.

Anybody have a definitive answer?

PS: I'm far from a newb, and if certain posters want to berate me for being curious I'd ask them to kindly f**k off right now and not sully the thread further. I don't care about your views or opinions, nor do I have to justify my curiousity to you. I want to know, that's all *you* need to know.

Thanks in advance :)

WW
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Bam that's my question right there.
 
I haven't patterned it, but the Cyl. Bore barrel I have for my A-5 is absolutely deadly on ducks over decoys with #4 steel, and only 2-3/4" shells. Absolutely deadly. But again, I'm keeping it inside 30 yards.
 
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