Will anything ever supplant the 9mm cartridge?
- Thread starter evolture
- Start date
Even in North America, I believe that 9mm represents approximately 60% of LE issue guns, and all the other remaining calibers split the other 40%.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
Judging by the amount of fired brass on the range floor, I'd say 9mm ammo consumption by POCO club members, outpaces all other pistol calibers by at least 5 to 1.
I don't know about other ranges around BC and Canada.
I believe cost is the biggest influence in the niners popularity (centerfire). Seems there's even more 9mm brass than .22LRs at the POCO range.
I don't know about other ranges around BC and Canada.
I believe cost is the biggest influence in the niners popularity (centerfire). Seems there's even more 9mm brass than .22LRs at the POCO range.
south of the 49th, or the river to us in the east, everybody wants a 45 to CC , then they carry it for 10 min & want something smaller ,lighter, less recoil, more bags in the mag, cheaper to shoot @ the range, just as good in self defense, eg 5yds or less . so guess what the go to is ? 9 because 380 ammo costs too much . this may only be true of the over 60 crowd , but in my world they can be the most deadly [ too old to fight so they just shoot you]
mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
.40 is a N. American thing - everywhere else it's 9x19 all the way (well, mostly anyway). It's the universal service pistol cartridge...
I'll infer that you meant to ask if 9x19mm will remain the most common centerfire pistol round in use. If anything will supplant the 9x19mm, it will have to be a damn good improvement. I can't foresee it happening, but who knows. At one time the .38 Special crowd probably thought the same. Then came the .45 ACP and .357 Magnum. Most went back to .38 Special +P. Then 9x19mm took over, even in the military. Maybe it will not be technological advancement but some other factor that forces change?
I believe the OP wasn't wondering if the 9x19mm will still be around, but rather the dominant centerfire pistol caliber in use.
I was just thinking the same. Looking at this list for the current round used in service pistols around the world, it would be quicker to count the countries that did not use 9x19mm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_pistol. Most police around the world also use 9x19mm. It would be a very big move to replace all of those pistols. And let's not forget all the SMGs in 9x19mm!
I tend to speak as an old bullseye / ISSF shooter and for NRA 2700 matches the .45 rules. Very few other than AMTU military shooters use the 9mm since to get accuracy out of a Beretta costs 2000 to 3000 US$ and takes at least a year's wait. If you ever pass through Denver, however, take note that the police issue pistol is a 1911 in .45. 45 is not all that expensive to shoot if you load your own, especially if you cast your own -- really the only way to match accuracy.
Yes, I understand that competitive pistol shooting is sliding away from the accuracy games toward "spray and pray" but as long as it hangs around, the 45 will be there and the 9mm won't. However, I do confess to having built a couple of 9mm match guns in the past, but they are only accurate with heavy bullets and even then I would not shoot them in an important match.
Naturally I recognize that your perspectives may be different.
Dr Jim
.45 is definitely preferred in a very small number of disciplines, and is issued by a small number of organizations. No question about that.
Agree with this... with modern powders and bullet designs, 9mm can do a lot and can keep up with the big boys (thought not the really big boys). To me, 9mm is like a 4 cylinder car. Old timers will scoff and say,"Getting shot with 9mm doesn't even hurt/4 cylinders can't make enough power," because of how "weak" they actually used to be back in the day. Except now you look at high quality defensive +P 9mm or a turbocharged 4 cylinder Subaru engine that cranks out over 300 horsepower (which is more than a V12 could make back in the day, by the way) and it's a different story.
I personally think it's a mistake for LE to be switching from 9mm to .40 by the way...
Over all of North America?
There are a total of about 30,000 members of the RCMP...I would guess maybe 20,000 are carrying guns? Say 25,000.
The California Highway Patrol alone has 11,000 members and 7500 of them are officers on the street. The LAPD has another 10,000.
I doubt very much that the RCMP represent large enough numbers to shift the balance of all North America. The reality is that 9mm is simply the king at this time.
There are a total of about 30,000 members of the RCMP...I would guess maybe 20,000 are carrying guns? Say 25,000.
The California Highway Patrol alone has 11,000 members and 7500 of them are officers on the street. The LAPD has another 10,000.
I doubt very much that the RCMP represent large enough numbers to shift the balance of all North America. The reality is that 9mm is simply the king at this time.
Jesus...think of the different career paths you could have at an organization that size.
On the other hand...think of the politics that must go on.
On the other hand...think of the politics that must go on.
You got it. I work for a telecommunications company as my real job (in addition to my part time RO gig) and we are ~40,000 or so and ya... a lot of office politics and bureaucratic red tape for sure. I don't mind being treated like a number though as long as there are funds deposited into my account every 2 weeks heh
I think we have different definitions of the term "obsolete". Neither the .303 British nor the .30-30 are obsolete in my opinion. Both are still in production and used commonly.
Judging by the amount of fired brass on the range floor, I'd say 9mm ammo consumption by POCO club members, outpaces all other pistol calibers by at least 5 to 1.
I don't know about other ranges around BC and Canada.
I believe cost is the biggest influence in the niners popularity (centerfire). Seems there's even more 9mm brass than .22LRs at the POCO range.
To what extent could your observation and conclusion be obscured by patrons picking up their more valued brass? I see a surprising amount of .45ACP brass at my local range, comparable to 9mm. I am rather certain that .45ACP shooters are more inclined to pick up their brass over those shooting 9mm.
I would say that 9MM is the equivelent of .308 Winchester. It's been around for quite a long time, and will be popular for the forseeable future. It just does it's job.
mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
42K last time I talked to a buddy there - and they absorbed Transit also, I think he said 35K just in uniform...
