Can someone explain Over & Under?

Major Sights said:
Why, for the love of God, does it cost so much for one? You can get a semi auto, pump, and SxS for close to a grand with lots of quality, but if you want a a barrel on top of a barrel, it costs thousands? I am not including used or "Condor" products in this generalization their history is either bad or unknown.

Can someone explain this?
Click to expand...


It's not the 2nd barrel which increases the costs of an over/under shotgun compared to a semi and a pump. It's the gun's mechanism inside the receiver. The parts and components that function and operate an over/under and a SxS shotgun are more detailed, and fussy, and require more precision detail in making and then fitting (in many cases fitting by hand, meaning using small tools and files). Semis and pumps are really a simply design, that can be produced easily enough with machines and technology that require very little human work, but the O/U and SxS need detail. This means extra costs, extra professional man hours, and it makes the price go up. No different than anything else in this modern world that requires extra detail and professional hour wages. You can find some O/U and SxS cheaper if things are not included such as a single trigger, selector switch from one barrel to another, and auto-ejectors. I hope this answers your question, and you can feel assured you are getting what you pay for in a quality double barrel shotgun.
 
scanner said:
It's not the 2nd barrel which increases the costs of an over/under shotgun compared to a semi and a pump. It's the gun's mechanism inside the receiver. The parts and components that function and operate an over/under and a SxS shotgun are more detailed, and fussy, and require more precision detail in making and then fitting (in many cases fitting by hand, meaning using small tools and files). Semis and pumps are really a simply design, that can be produced easily enough with machines and technology that require very little human work, but the O/U and SxS need detail. This means extra costs, extra professional man hours, and it makes the price go up. No different than anything else in this modern world that requires extra detail and professional hour wages. You can find some O/U and SxS cheaper if things are not included such as a single trigger, selector switch from one barrel to another, and auto-ejectors. I hope this answers your question, and you can feel assured you are getting what you pay for in a quality double barrel shotgun.
Click to expand...

Well said.

Don't forget, you can fire 2 shells off faster in an O/U than a semi
 
Got Juice? said:
60K through my cynergy and not one hiccup, repair, fte or ftff
Click to expand...

there's quite a bit of difference between a citori and a cynergy. Different actions, you name it.
Buddy of mine just bought a citori white lightning. Fore end would not lock on properly and needed filing on the end. WTF, $1700 for what? He wants to sell it now...
 
gunsaholic said:
And if you have double triggers you still have one barrel to shoot if one fails!
Click to expand...

Or a single mechanical trigger! :)

It's worth googling the process of putting two barrels together properly. Getting the registry correct, while applying pretty serious heat, while applying solder is one of those old school skills that's pretty much an art unto itself.

O/Us definitely have an advantage in clay games... they just do. There's plenty of mechanical advantage, in terms of two quicker shots, the ability to throw two patterns (that's pretty huge by itself), and the ability to shoot in what equates to two different places (top barrel vs. bottom barrel) for doubles are all great reasons to buy one. That they're more reliable, and essentially safer is another (it's a lot easier to inadvertently put a semi into a ready to fire situation than it is an over under!), but there's also something intrinsic about them. Be it their balance or the way they shoot or the way they look, they just make the act of shooting better. Same with a good side by side. There's just something about 'em...

PS: Where are the Cynergys made?
 
emidyl said:
there's quite a bit of difference between a citori and a cynergy. Different actions, you name it.
Buddy of mine just bought a citori white lightning. Fore end would not lock on properly and needed filing on the end. WTF, $1700 for what? He wants to sell it now...
Click to expand...

Does that EVER suck!

The gentleman at the club I visited who gave me an introductory lesson said that he's seen an awful lot of shotguns and generally found that the Beretta's were less prone to problems then the Brownings. I believe he has a 686 Silver Pigeon (don't know if it s the S model or SP 1).
 
Imho, up to about $10k quality gets better for dollars spent, after $10k they get prettier, more than better. Get one that fits and you like to hold. In a good shotgun there is not much that is more important than fit.
 
Much of the expense is the mechanism, as said above, plus the cost of two quality barrels aligned properly. Did I mention both barrels are aligned properly? Sometimes those barrels can be beaded together and taken apart several times before they weld them with the perfect alignment, especially before new technolgy.

IMO, you get what you pay for. These two Berettas are over 25 years old and have tens of thousands of rounds through them. Cleaning is the only reason they have ever been in a shop.



NewImage.jpg
 
gunsaholic said:
I would grab the $399.00 SKB over any $700.00 new o/u.
Click to expand...
Chances are you'll find very few, brand new & good quality O/Us for 700 bucks these days over the counter.
I paid just about that amount, a few years ago, for my used but not abused Ithaca/SKB in 20 gauge with 26inch barrels in IC/Modified. SKBs were/are excellent value for the money spent and now everyone on the internet is well aware of this fact in the used gun market.
 
Last edited:
rembolt said:
For 399 you had better grab it .there a good quality gun .only draw back is SKB has gone out of business so your not likely to find parts if you ever need them .
Click to expand...
Chances are other than cracked wood, all you'll ever need for this Ithaca/SKB for spares is firing pins and mainsprings for them. Ron Sharp in Dunnville Ontario, should be able to set you up with these small parts.
 
Chuck3436 said:
THere are utility "hunting" grade over unders.

Take the Maverick hunter over under for example. A true economy o/u with poly furniture. No fancy schmancy wood or engravings for$400-$500 bucks. Stoeger also makes some affordable o/u shotties, I haven't heard anything bad about the condor line like you say.

The problem with over unders is they are usually the shotgun of choice for those old, super rich, fuddy types who like to drop 4k on a shotgun and sneer at anything less on the skeet range. So the market provides them with such.
Click to expand...
This is an unfair and untruthful statement. My Ithaca/SKB O/U, was well under 1000 bucks and is of very good quality. If anyone has problems with that fact, it's not this guy. I know of two Condors that are presently inoperative for broken firing pins. Niether owner plans on getting them working anytime soon, because they feel that in a short time of shooting once again, the firing pins will break again.

PS: I have several M37 Ithaca pumpguns too, & I paid record low prices for them because I carefully watched the EE on a regular basis.
You could do the same also.
 
If the Cynergy was not invented, I would have a Beretta 686 in a heartbeat.

Remember as well that field guns are built lighter (yes somewhat weaker) because you do need to carry them. I have no issues hunting with my Browning Cynergy Composite Sporting Clays, though it is almost 1 lb heavier than a field gun.

Cynergy, has pistol triggers (constant spring tension), Citori has inertia (recoil reset) triggers, so on a double up shot, the Cynergy will shoot lock to lock faster than a Citori.

The monolock hinge on my Cynery is still like new tight and while it has become slghtly easier to close over the last 5 years, it's tolerances are still like new. Compared to a Mossy, which felt 20 years worn out over 1 year of shooting.

A quality O/U is like a quality car. They fit better, handle better, and last longer. A cheapo is exactly what you paid for.

Based on my experience, Beretta Cynergy offers the best bang for the buck out there and the fit and finnish is very good.
Beretta 686 et/al is second only because they are slightly more $$$ than the browning, but they also have slightly better finish.
CZ OU's are about the least money out there for a Quality OU. No frills, but very shootable.

The absolute most important thing about a shotgun is that it fits YOU. Bad fit=Bad Form=Bad Shooting.
You buy the best gun you can afford that fits you.

I paid 3200 for my Cynergy Composite Sporting Clays. And I have never had buyers remorse because it is a quality piece, reliable, it fits me well (small spacers are provided with gun and extra triggers etc) and while 30" barrels are a little long to swing for skeet for my taste, I still collect my share of loonies from the pot!

And on the last english droving quail hunt (2 times a day, about 7 hrs per day total) I tended to carry 'open shoulder' and I was never caught out of a shot, and a lot less tired than those guys hauling around those heavy assed automatics. Plus No jams because of gas port fouling.

If you love the sport, get a quaity gun. If you are just trying it out for now, get a CZ or a used 1187 Remington Auto (what I started on) and give it a go until you are sure. Then place a WTB ad in the EE or shop around.
 
Brutus said:
This is an unfair and untruthful statement. My Ithaca/SKB O/U, was well under 1000 bucks and is of very good quality. If anyone has problems with that fact, it's not this guy. I know of two Condors that are presently inoperative for broken firing pins. Niether owner plans on getting them working anytime soon, because they feel that in a short time of shooting once again, the firing pins will break again.

PS: I have several M37 Ithaca pumpguns too, & I paid record low prices for them because I carefully watched the EE on a regular basis.
You could do the same also.
Click to expand...

SKB sound like one I should add to the stable for when company comes over to my place. I don't mind experienced shooters using my Cyn, but inexperienced one's...make me cringe almost as bad as lending out my vette
 
Brutus said:
Thank you Got Juice. Informed opinions are very welcome here.........

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Shotgunning is as addictive as Pistol shooting I find.

Oh, and one other thing to the OP, The reason Sporting Clays/Trap/Skeet guns are heavier than their cheap field counterparts, is that the manufacturer KNOWS how man rounds we are gonna shoot with these shotguns, so they are built to take the punishment and help absorb the recoil better for shooter comfort.

I knew I forgot an important point......
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom