Accuracy improvement by truing 700 action

People question the quality of norinco, but somehow accept the quality of Remington. This is only a list of things that need to be done that I have come across:

Truing Action
Truing Bolt Face
Replacing recoil lug
New Trigger
New Barrel
Lapping Lugs/Bolt
Bolt lift timing

At that point aren't you at the price point of a custom rig or higher end firearm?
I must be missing something.
 
Tcon said:
People question the quality of norinco, but somehow accept the quality of Remington. This is only a list of things that need to be done that I have come across:

Truing Action
Truing Bolt Face
Replacing recoil lug
New Trigger
New Barrel
Lapping Lugs/Bolt
Bolt lift timing

At that point aren't you at the price point of a custom rig or higher end firearm?
I must be missing something.
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I'm getting .6 MOA at 200 from mine without trying too hard, and haven't done any of those things listed. Saying they Need to be done might be overstating it a bit.
 
Farmer Harv said:
I'm getting .6 MOA at 200 from mine without trying too hard, and haven't done any of those things listed. Saying they Need to be done might be overstating it a bit.
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Thats great to hear, I'm sure you aren't the only one. You are right, all those things don't need to be done. What is the minimum? Barrel, Trigger, Truing Action, Recoil Lug? If you bought an SPS for $479 with all those additions you are closer to what $1100-$1200 without stock.

Truthfully, I just don't understand.
 
lejarretnoir said:
You guys are right about the setup part. I don't have a backlog to get so many rifles out a week, so I have the time to setup the action in my jig and check it out. Some actions are better than others and all require some attention. For production reasons the Manson system is a no brainer. I've most certainly exhausted my time on building an action spider similar to Gre'Tans model, but setup is tedious.

I agree Guntech, lapping lugs does nothing to true an action. It only laps what is already there, crooked or straight.
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Are you using the thread reamer with the Mansen system or do you single point cut?
 
762shooter said:
Or maybe you lucked out and won the draw prize?
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Quite possibly, though I have my doubts. If these actions were so horrible from the factory that they affected accuracy that much I'm sure there would be widespread screaming all across the internet.

Thats great to hear, I'm sure you aren't the only one. You are right, all those things don't need to be done. What is the minimum? Barrel, Trigger, Truing Action, Recoil Lug? If you bought an SPS for $479 with all those additions you are closer to what $1100-$1200 without stock.

Truthfully, I just don't understand.
Click to expand...

In my case the minimum is nothing. I bought an SPS for $479, and I'm getting those results with that original $479 in the barrel, trigger and action. Don't get me wrong, I'll most likely end up doing everything on your list, but not because I feel it Needs to be done, but because tinkering and modifying (and spending!) is part of the hobby.
 
Farmer Harv said:
Quite possibly, though I have my doubts. If these actions were so horrible from the factory that they affected accuracy that much I'm sure there would be widespread screaming all across the internet.



In my case the minimum is nothing. I bought an SPS for $479, and I'm getting those results with that original $479 in the barrel, trigger and action. Don't get me wrong, I'll most likely end up doing everything on your list, but not because I feel it Needs to be done, but because tinkering and modifying (and spending!) is part of the hobby.
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:agree:
 
Well, guys, here is a link you can all enjoy with pics and great explanation on many of the steps in blueprinting.

Assume there will be a part 2 but it gives all a great idea of what is involved.

And what is involved is alot of time and careful attention to detail. The actual machine work is peanuts.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/rifle-blueprinting-2.php

I'll keep my comments to myself but this should highlight why floating bolt heads are getting increasingly more popular and custom actions are replacing "tuned" Rems in competition.

To those planning a build and then worrying about the price of labor from a good smith like Guntech, if you were charging shop time, you could never get your cost that LOW.

True match quality gunsmithing is as much art as science and they rarely get paid for their time and skill.

Hopefully, this will also highlight the short cuts some smiths do and then call the work complete.

Enjoy...

Jerry
 
GSoD said:
Just my experience - I had a Rem700P. Bone stock, with some novice reloading it would shoot .75MOA consistently with 175SMKs. Last year had a smith true everything up and throw on a Shilen Barrel from Mystic and now it does 185gr Bergers under .5MOA consistently.
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Did you try the 185gr. Bergers in the factory configuration? Perhaps that would have been a good comparison. ;)
 
Mystic Precision said:
To those planning a build and then worrying about the price of labor from a good smith like Guntech, if you were charging shop time, you could never get your cost that LOW.

True match quality gunsmithing is as much art as science and they rarely get paid for their time and skill.
Click to expand...
Very true. I was told long ago by other smiths who tutored me that you'll be busy, but never rich. In fact, you might break even. You have to think outside the box to make the big bucks.
The best paid are the competition pistol smiths. Precision rifle smiths spend far too much time on the internet. What does that tell you? :p
 
I think lots of people are putting this out of proportion. I paid $900 after taxes for my left hand SPS varmint. Which is on the high side of price ranges, thanks CanadianTire. I then sold my old trigger, which brought the price of the action down to $850. If you were to buy a new custom action, like a surgeon, you are looking at $1295 US before importing taxes and export/import fees. Do a blueprint of the 700 action, you are up to $1100. So the custom action you are looking close to $1500 to your door (for a surgeon), blueprinted rem 700, $1100. I don't even know if surgeon even makes a LH model. Probably to make one, it will cost extra. That gap of $400 could buy you a match grade barrel or half a mcmillan stock. Add a custom recoil lug, $25, a new bolt handle $150, and you are still under the price of a custom action. Blueprinted actions can be just as accurate as a custom action. Most times it is the barrel than the action that dictates accuracy.
 
Not a good comparision.

If you are thinking blueprinted Rem 700, you need to compare to a Rem 700 clone custom action.

These are running in the high hundreds, low thousands now. There is rumored to be a Can supply that will be under $1000 which will have a Rem 700 footprint.

Also, remember that one area hasn't been discussed yet and that is the slop between the bolt and the action. This can vary HUGE in a production rifle and for peak accuracy MUST be dealt with.

Blueprinting alone will not keep that bolt from bouncing around once the sear drops. And if the back end of the bolt moves, guess what the front of the bolt does?

SO.... there is more to just making an action straight. You have to KEEP IT STRAIGHT during the entire firing cycle.

That is rarely dealt with even in a blue print job AND the work to get it right CAN affect the actions function in the muck. And this work and/or parts are PRICEY.

After all this is said and done, with alot of $$$ spent, the most you are getting is consistent ignition and pressure control. The accuracy is STILL in the barrel, and chamber.

Oh well, so much for no comment :)

Jerry

PS see my other comment on free floating bolt heads.....
 
Mystic Precision said:
Not a good comparision.

If you are thinking blueprinted Rem 700, you need to compare to a Rem 700 clone custom action.

These are running in the high hundreds, low thousands now. There is rumored to be a Can supply that will be under $1000 which will have a Rem 700 footprint.

Also, remember that one area hasn't been discussed yet and that is the slop between the bolt and the action. This can vary HUGE in a production rifle and for peak accuracy MUST be dealt with.

Blueprinting alone will not keep that bolt from bouncing around once the sear drops. And if the back end of the bolt moves, guess what the front of the bolt does?

SO.... there is more to just making an action straight. You have to KEEP IT STRAIGHT during the entire firing cycle.

That is rarely dealt with even in a blue print job AND the work to get it right CAN affect the actions function in the muck. And this work and/or parts are PRICEY.

After all this is said and done, with alot of $$$ spent, the most you are getting is consistent ignition and pressure control. The accuracy is STILL in the barrel, and chamber.

Oh well, so much for no comment :)

Jerry

PS see my other comment on free floating bolt heads.....
Click to expand...

Are the problems you mentioned a concern with the savage action and floating bolt head. If not, would the savage style action be a better accurate platform for a low buck precision build?,
 
Mystic Precision said:
Not a good comparision.

If you are thinking blueprinted Rem 700, you need to compare to a Rem 700 clone custom action.

These are running in the high hundreds, low thousands now. There is rumored to be a Can supply that will be under $1000 which will have a Rem 700 footprint.

Also, remember that one area hasn't been discussed yet and that is the slop between the bolt and the action. This can vary HUGE in a production rifle and for peak accuracy MUST be dealt with.

Blueprinting alone will not keep that bolt from bouncing around once the sear drops. And if the back end of the bolt moves, guess what the front of the bolt does?

SO.... there is more to just making an action straight. You have to KEEP IT STRAIGHT during the entire firing cycle.

That is rarely dealt with even in a blue print job AND the work to get it right CAN affect the actions function in the muck. And this work and/or parts are PRICEY.

After all this is said and done, with alot of $$$ spent, the most you are getting is consistent ignition and pressure control. The accuracy is STILL in the barrel, and chamber.

Oh well, so much for no comment :)

Jerry

PS see my other comment on free floating bolt heads.....
Click to expand...

I am wondering how it could not be a good comparison. To me, a custom action is a custom action. They are built to the same objective.
 
Surgeons target audience are working professionals.

Rem clones target competition shooters or those wanting a tuned up Rem but don't want the hassle of tuning up a factory action.

Different in several respects, weight and application.

A gunsmith tuned Rem 700 vs a Rem clone custom action is the better comparison.

Jerry
 
masonicshooter said:
Are the problems you mentioned a concern with the savage action and floating bolt head. If not, would the savage style action be a better accurate platform for a low buck precision build?,
Click to expand...

If you visit my website and look in the Tech section, you will be able to read my opinion on this topic.

You can also visit 6mmBR.com and look for gun of the week #75.

Jerry
 
Rem700 tune action can be a very Accurate rifle, it take some work. M24Sniper rifle is base on a Rem700 action.
 
rem blueprinting

Mystic Precision said:
Not a good comparision.

If you are thinking blueprinted Rem 700, you need to compare to a Rem 700 clone custom action.

These are running in the high hundreds, low thousands now. There is rumored to be a Can supply that will be under $1000 which will have a Rem 700 footprint.

Also, remember that one area hasn't been discussed yet and that is the slop between the bolt and the action. This can vary HUGE in a production rifle and for peak accuracy MUST be dealt with.

Blueprinting alone will not keep that bolt from bouncing around once the sear drops. And if the back end of the bolt moves, guess what the front of the bolt does?

SO.... there is more to just making an action straight. You have to KEEP IT STRAIGHT during the entire firing cycle.

That is rarely dealt with even in a blue print job AND the work to get it right CAN affect the actions function in the muck. And this work and/or parts are PRICEY.

After all this is said and done, with alot of $$$ spent, the most you are getting is consistent ignition and pressure control. The accuracy is STILL in the barrel, and chamber.

Oh well, so much for no comment :)

Jerry

PS see my other comment on free floating bolt heads.....
Click to expand...

I agree that it is not done most times, Its unfortunate that people true the receiver face and lap the bolt lugs and call (sell) this as a true blueprint job. That being said I am not sure how anyone could sleeve the bolt true bolt face and receiver face, straighten threads with single point cutting and true up internal lugs for a couple of hundred dollars and stay in buisness. just my opinion
 
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