Sometimes the truth isnt what you want to hear

drache

drache

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A woman who recently lost her husband has come to realize the bills are starting to amass faster than she can pay them off due to interest. So one day she calls me up and tells me she wants to sell her husbands rifle and thinks it's worth enough to pay off some bills.

When she told me what it was those I couldn't help but telling her the truth. That it's not worth as much as she thinks.

Simply put it's a sportarized 1941 ROFMNo 4 MK1 Number#E15244 with a Bushnell Scopechief IV on top of it. It's not that bad of shape since it was reblued and such but it's still sportarized.

She wasn't that happy to hear the news and frankly doesn't believe me. But I'll be posting pictures soon as I can here and then I'll show her this thread afterwards.
 
Yes, just because someone has spent $500 on gunsmithing, mounts and scope all together doesn't mean you will get it back...
 
As I have explained it to some, there is 2 different markets to consider when selling older firearms.

The first is the collector's market. This takes into account the rarity of the weapon as a whole, and it's overall condition to a collector. In this market the piece that is worth the most is unaltered, unblemished, effectively looking like the day it came out of the factory. So in this market, if it were an unaltered No4 Mk1 Enfield rifle, it would be worth the + $300 figure to a collector looking for a piece of precise world war 2 history. In this market because unaltered specimens are relatively easy to find, this particular rifle is not as desirable.

The second market is the market concerning the firearm's worth compared alongside new purpose-built firearms. In this market, someone can buy a brand new purpose-built hunting rifle for (let's say) $600. This rifle is brand new and should shoot very well. From the factory, it is prepared for the mounting of optics. So when re-selling a purpose-built hunting rifle, the price will be the resale value of a used $600 hunting rifle. In this market, the piece that is worth the most is a top of the line sporting rifle. Alongside a top of the line sporting rifle, a used, altered military rifle is considered "crude" and simple, and the value of such a rifle in this market reflects that.

I hope this helps, it's how I've tried to simplify it for people over the years. I've found it's very difficult to explain these things to people who have a set image and price in their mind, but do not really understand how the markets work..

Sorry for her loss, this news unfortunately won't help her either..
 
Wait....it *could* be worth more.....it depends on what *exactly* has been done to it. If it hasn't been chopped up (barrel, action shaved, etc) it could be worth more as it can be a donor gun or resto project.

The scope, being an IV is actually very nice glass and will pull a premium for guys wanting to do period-accurate setups of their guns (I have a close friend who buys ONLY period correct scopes for his collection of marlins)

In short, all "bubbas" are not the same, and you may very well be doing a disservice assuming it's a 150.00 gun.

Post pics, let the guys in the H&S arms AND Milsurp section know they are here and get an informed opinion.

WW
 
Hawkshadow said:
As I have explained it to some, there is 2 different markets to consider when selling older firearms.

The first is the collector's market. This takes into account the rarity of the weapon as a whole, and it's overall condition to a collector. In this market the piece that is worth the most is unaltered, unblemished, effectively looking like the day it came out of the factory. So in this market, if it were an unaltered No4 Mk1 Enfield rifle, it would be worth the + $300 figure to a collector looking for a piece of precise world war 2 history. In this market because unaltered specimens are relatively easy to find, this particular rifle is not as desirable.

The second market is the market concerning the firearm's worth compared alongside new purpose-built firearms. In this market, someone can buy a brand new purpose-built hunting rifle for (let's say) $600. This rifle is brand new and should shoot very well. From the factory, it is prepared for the mounting of optics. So when re-selling a purpose-built hunting rifle, the price will be the resale value of a used $600 hunting rifle. In this market, the piece that is worth the most is a top of the line sporting rifle. Alongside a top of the line sporting rifle, a used, altered military rifle is considered "crude" and simple, and the value of such a rifle in this market reflects that.

I hope this helps, it's how I've tried to simplify it for people over the years. I've found it's very difficult to explain these things to people who have a set image and price in their mind, but do not really understand how the markets work..

Sorry for her loss, this news unfortunately won't help her either..
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Ummm....welcome to 1/2 a decade ago.

I'll take every single unaltered No4 you can get me at 300 bucks....seriously.
 
I agree with the $100-150 estimate. At least it didn't just get turned in to be melted.

This is like the $15,000 motorcycle or Mustang with $15,000 worth of parts or work put into it. It isn't worth $30,000 but more likely less than the $15k it was bought for now that it's used. Try to tell the owner or estate that though.
 
only one rifle ?

is the powder , bullets , brass dies , extra magazines or other reloading supplies to go with it that might bump up the value a bit ?

is the barrel cut back ? is their other surgury done to the rifle preventing it from easily being restored ?
 
Maybe if the barrel is still stock it's worth around $200 as a possible restoration?

The scope may well be a valid older piece. But that's one of those situations where it's worth more than chump change only to the right buyer. And if he knows he can just be patient and score something similar for less at the next gun show then he's going to pass it by. But it seems like any sort of serviceable Bushnell is worth at $40 to $50 even if it's a basic one. At least that's what I see at the sellers tables at the gun swaps.
 
BCRider said:
Maybe if the barrel is still stock it's worth around $200 as a possible restoration?

The scope may well be a valid older piece. But that's one of those situations where it's worth more than chump change only to the right buyer. And if he knows he can just be patient and score something similar for less at the next gun show then he's going to pass it by. But it seems like any sort of serviceable Bushnell is worth at $40 to $50 even if it's a basic one. At least that's what I see at the sellers tables at the gun swaps.
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So now sported enfields sell for MORE if the end users intent is to restore them? :confused: :bsFlag:

Regardless if the scope is worth $50, a D and T'd enfield with sported wood is worth less than $100. Add a $50 scope and you get a fair price of $150 tops.

The only time I paid $200 for a sported Enfield was when I found an all parts matching 1916 Canadian marked No.1 Mk.3* with only the wood cut down. I felt ripped off at $200 but I had been searching for a while so I paid the premium. Now if Marstar would only put some Canadian No.1 Mk.3* wood and metal up for grabs.
 
A friend asked me to take a look at his mother's firearms (her husband passed away, she has a PAL so they became hers) to estimate value and maybe buy them or sell them for her. Unfortunately her idea of what they were worth was at least 40% higher than the most they could be sold for so she was convinced I was trying to rip her off. In fact, some would be really had to sell and at least one wasn't worth shipping. So they still sit in her basement.
 
I have seen really nice PH sporting conversions sell in the $250 range at auction.
I agree that $150 is high for most chop jobs.
 
Again, we can't *say* what it's worth because we don't *know* what it is.

You guys are reading "Sporterized #4" and are instantly thinking "100 bucks"

*BUT* What if it's a Churchill with outstanding wood, high gloss blue and extensive machining? Still worth 100 bucks? Didn't think so ;)

What if it's a Parker Hale conversion? Same deal.

Until we see pics there is no way to responsibly put a number on the thing......why the willingness to jump in?

Edited to add: This thread reminds me of something I had happen a few months back. I had a self proclaimed enfield "expert" ask me if I wanted a bubba'd no 4 for 50 bucks on one of the outdoor forums...said he hated sporters. I said sure (Any shootable enfield is worth that...right?), sent the cash, and a week later an EAL showed up at my door. :)

To the OP: Any pics yet?
 
Wrong Way said:
Again, we can't *say* what it's worth because we don't *know* what it is.

You guys are reading "Sporterized #4" and are instantly thinking "100 bucks"

*BUT* What if it's a Churchill with outstanding wood, high gloss blue and extensive machining? Still worth 100 bucks? Didn't think so ;)

What if it's a Parker Hale conversion? Same deal.

Until we see pics there is no way to responsibly put a number on the thing......why the willingness to jump in?

Edited to add: This thread reminds me of something I had happen a few months back. I had a self proclaimed enfield "expert" ask me if I wanted a bubba'd no 4 for 50 bucks on one of the outdoor forums...said he hated sporters. I said sure (Any shootable enfield is worth that...right?), sent the cash, and a week later an EAL showed up at my door. :)

To the OP: Any pics yet?
Click to expand...

nice score :D
 
I disagree with most here. That Bausch and Lomb Scopechief is worth at least 100 bucks. A plain jane sportered Enfield is worth about 150. I would say 250 for the package providing the rifle is in good to excellent shape with an excellent bore.
 
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