are any parts for the HK interchangeable with the real AR-10s then? bolts, buffer tubes, stocks?
The AR-10
- Thread starter Travis Bickle
- Start date
are any parts for the HK interchangeable with the real AR-10s then? bolts, buffer tubes, stocks?
do you have an old ar-10 that you could post pics to compare them? im really interested in all the differences between platforms, if i could just have a few hours with one each of the 4 to see what has changed and how, when you consider that they are almost identical rifles
measurements would be a plus too, google tells me none of the secrets i wish to learn
is it possible to use any of the current charging handles in the old sudanese version ar-10s?
are barrels or barrel nuts interchangable between any of the 4?
measurements would be a plus too, google tells me none of the secrets i wish to learn
is it possible to use any of the current charging handles in the old sudanese version ar-10s?
are barrels or barrel nuts interchangable between any of the 4?
BattleRife
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Nupes, I enjoyed your post but don't believe that the bit I quoted above is true. Stoner was intimately involved in the design of the composite barrel and was probably very proud of it, it was arguably the most advanced part of the design. Stoner did not even consider a steel barrel until after the burst occurred.
it is also worth pointing out that the burst occurred after tens of thousands of rounds on full auto as fast as mags could be changed, quite impressive considering a new DSA FAL will only do about 6000 as fast as can be fired in semi auto before bullets start tumbling
in real life i doubt a barrel would have ever burst in combat, i bet a HMG doesnt fire that many rounds in 12 hours of sustained combat
The LAR-8 by Rock River arms might be considered as a 5th style. It uses the Fal mags and has a slightly different bolt because of this. That being said it's one I've also purposely avoided.
Hey Kevin I have a quick question. did the early SR-25 rifles use a Remington 5R barrel?
You could be right on this as my information was gleened from several (less than fully reliable) sources along with info from Wiki that seems to confirm it (yeah I know,lol). Stoners designs implimentations for much of his work has a good track record also (thinking of the ball powder fiasco with the early 16's amongst others).
Of the Dutch AR10's there were three major variants. The upper and lower receivers would not interchange between these variants due to locking pin placement and size, etc.
1. Sudanese - One piece handguard, one pice charginh handle
2. Transitional - most had Porto handguards, but some had Sudanese. BCG and charging handle interchanges with Sudans
3. Portuguese - Four piece handguards with metal heat shields, two pice charginh handle.
The bolts for the Porto are large lug while the Sudan and Transitional bolts have small lugs and interchange. There are very small differences between the bolt carriers for the Sudan and transitionals and the porto bolt carrier is way different due to the two piece charging handle. The buffer tubes and buffer assemblies differ slightly between the variants but all interchange
As for interchangeability with modern AR10's or AR308's... There is nothing that interchanges. I have seen a few old rifles use a modern selector switch and I know the mag release can be adapted. That is about it.
The Dutch made some semi-auto AR10 sub-variants. Some are well known and some are legendary (mythical?). There is the AR102 Sporter which was designed for the civillian market and just several left the Netherlands. There are two in the Knight collection. Below is one owned and used by a Dutch sport shooting champ. The magwell is factory modified so that military mags will not fit. There is a factory installed sear block to this rifle is 100% semi-auto. All of the AR102's but one are Transitional, which is evident from the Porto handguards and Sudan charging handle.
The KLM survival rifles were not semi-autos. Rather they were select fire Sudan style rifles. There were only four of the KLM rifles made. Below is a 1958 publicity photo depicting a KLM stewardess holding one of the AR10 survival rifles. The delivery documents for these rifles are accessible and state explicitly that they are select fire.
There are other reported examples of AR10 semi's but they are not known to the Dutch collectors. Apparently one of these rifles was owned by Mac Macdonald and was the subject of a legal fight These AR10's are said to have the sear hole but with incomplete milling so that a sear can not be installed.
I would very much like to be put in contact with the owner of one of the factory semi-auto rifles now in Canada. Those rifles need to be photographed and documented in order to be embraced and appreciated by the collector community.
1. Sudanese - One piece handguard, one pice charginh handle
2. Transitional - most had Porto handguards, but some had Sudanese. BCG and charging handle interchanges with Sudans
3. Portuguese - Four piece handguards with metal heat shields, two pice charginh handle.
The bolts for the Porto are large lug while the Sudan and Transitional bolts have small lugs and interchange. There are very small differences between the bolt carriers for the Sudan and transitionals and the porto bolt carrier is way different due to the two piece charging handle. The buffer tubes and buffer assemblies differ slightly between the variants but all interchange
As for interchangeability with modern AR10's or AR308's... There is nothing that interchanges. I have seen a few old rifles use a modern selector switch and I know the mag release can be adapted. That is about it.
The Dutch made some semi-auto AR10 sub-variants. Some are well known and some are legendary (mythical?). There is the AR102 Sporter which was designed for the civillian market and just several left the Netherlands. There are two in the Knight collection. Below is one owned and used by a Dutch sport shooting champ. The magwell is factory modified so that military mags will not fit. There is a factory installed sear block to this rifle is 100% semi-auto. All of the AR102's but one are Transitional, which is evident from the Porto handguards and Sudan charging handle.
The KLM survival rifles were not semi-autos. Rather they were select fire Sudan style rifles. There were only four of the KLM rifles made. Below is a 1958 publicity photo depicting a KLM stewardess holding one of the AR10 survival rifles. The delivery documents for these rifles are accessible and state explicitly that they are select fire.
There are other reported examples of AR10 semi's but they are not known to the Dutch collectors. Apparently one of these rifles was owned by Mac Macdonald and was the subject of a legal fight These AR10's are said to have the sear hole but with incomplete milling so that a sear can not be installed.
I would very much like to be put in contact with the owner of one of the factory semi-auto rifles now in Canada. Those rifles need to be photographed and documented in order to be embraced and appreciated by the collector community.
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CST Grad C.Nixon
Regular
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Bring on the hate!!! 
But after reading this thread about 3/4 the way through I have to give my $0.02 on this... Im going to get a ton of flak on this one I can see it now, but I believe this has to be heard, whether we all like it or not 
...
NEA is listening, the AR-10, and ANY other model offering of the AR-10 (ie. AR-10A2, AR-10A4, AR-10T, and AR-10B) is ALREADY DEEMED by the CFC as RESTRICTED.... There are some AR-10's that are deemed Prohib, as they are either in the Full-Auto, or Converted-Auto...
-- This is what the CFC deems as "VARIANT" & "Rifle design commonly known as the AR15/M16 family of rifles".... aka RESTRICTED.... The CFC already has the AR-10B tagged as RESTRICTED, so if any manufacturer was to tool up and produce this rifle for us Canucks the mighty "VARIANT" term is out in full force...
-- (See above post)
*As a side note there are "Restricted" AR-180Bs out there as well, do not be fooled and think that all 180Bs are Non-Res, as some rifles include a integral muzzle brake device, and others with a screw on/off muzzle brake, their barrel lengths should be 462mm/18.1" for the Restricted, and 567mm/22" for the Non-Res...*
... So in conclusion (hides under computer desk to avoid incoming fire from angry CGN'rs) Im all for anything 'AR' and Non-Restricted, dont get me wrong, however with the AR-10 and any "VARIANT" being labelled RESTRICTED, the ONLY time we will see 'AR' and 'Non Restricted' in the same sentence is the AR-180B... so Im all for jumping on the "Pester NEA To Build Us a New AR-180B 
" bandwagon!!! Someone start a thread and get some voices heard!!!!
Cheers Everyone!
But after reading this thread about 3/4 the way through I have to give my $0.02 on this... Im going to get a ton of flak on this one I can see it now, but I believe this has to be heard, whether we all like it or not ...NEA is listening, the AR-10, and ANY other model offering of the AR-10 (ie. AR-10A2, AR-10A4, AR-10T, and AR-10B) is ALREADY DEEMED by the CFC as RESTRICTED.... There are some AR-10's that are deemed Prohib, as they are either in the Full-Auto, or Converted-Auto...
The upper and lower receivers are different from the AR-15 standard. The pistol grip is different. The bolt (although similar) is completely different. The furniture is different material and design. The rear sight was adjusted with a hoizontal dial set into the rear base of the carry handle. The weapon cocked from the top believe it or not.
When you see pictures of it, there is a curved trigger under the carry handle, that is the cocking handle you pulled back to #### the weapon. Which I think is much more practical than the awkward AR-15 bent wrist over hand lobster claw method. It also meant left or right handed shooters could fire it pretty much the exact same.
They were much simpler in design, less moving parts meant much higher reliability.
The new Armalite "AR-10's" are literally just an AR-15 as we all know it chambered for 7.62 NATO/.308 Win.
They did a limited production a ways back of what they called an AR-10B as a "produced largely for collectors rifle"
But all the ones being manufactured now are just AR-15 clones in 7.62 NATO/.308 Win.
-- This is what the CFC deems as "VARIANT" & "Rifle design commonly known as the AR15/M16 family of rifles".... aka RESTRICTED.... The CFC already has the AR-10B tagged as RESTRICTED, so if any manufacturer was to tool up and produce this rifle for us Canucks the mighty "VARIANT" term is out in full force...
-- (See above post)
*As a side note there are "Restricted" AR-180Bs out there as well, do not be fooled and think that all 180Bs are Non-Res, as some rifles include a integral muzzle brake device, and others with a screw on/off muzzle brake, their barrel lengths should be 462mm/18.1" for the Restricted, and 567mm/22" for the Non-Res...*
... So in conclusion (hides under computer desk to avoid incoming fire from angry CGN'rs
) Im all for anything 'AR' and Non-Restricted, dont get me wrong, however with the AR-10 and any "VARIANT" being labelled RESTRICTED, the ONLY time we will see 'AR' and 'Non Restricted' in the same sentence is the AR-180B... so Im all for jumping on the "Pester NEA To Build Us a New AR-180B " bandwagon!!! Someone start a thread and get some voices heard!!!! Cheers Everyone!
Bring on the hate!!!
You aren't going to get flamed. But the issue is that the original AR10 rifles are not variants. They proceeded the AR15 design. The AR15 was deemed restricted by name due to an OIC. The subsequent AR10 models have been deemed variants since they use a different design than the original AR10 and are in fact modeled after the later AR15. However... not the originals. If you have an original AR10 that was made as a semi auto and not one that was just converted then you have a non restricted rifle providing barrel length etc fall within non restricted.
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- Location
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Right after the AWB ended here Armalite or someone made AR18s. I couldn't get one then as I was a few years to young.
CST Grad C.Nixon
Regular
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Anything labelled with the AR-10 name, regardless of date of manufacture, design standpoint etc, still falls under Restricted... thats set in stone from the CFC's Firearms Reference Table... If somehow someone was to have an original AR-10 buried in their backyards for 30years, and unearthed it to get it verified, and registered the new FRT legislation (being: The rifle design commonly known as the AR15/M16 family of rifles) would have it deemed as a Variant of the AR-10B (as we all know the 1998 throwback to the original design standpoint of the AR-10), its also regardless of what rifle design predates another design, the CFC isnt concerned about that, and theyre very much aware of it. The way I view it is anything BUT the AR-180B will always be Restricted here in the Great White North...
You are, in fact, incorrect. Read the linked article.....
http://canadiangunnutz.yuku.com/reply/6628/t/Status-of-Original-AR-10-in-308.html#reply-6628
CST Grad C.Nixon
Regular
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Based on the dates mentioned from that posting in regards to the gentlemen with this apparent 'non-restricted' AR-10 I would like to see how the CFC would handle it NOW... as yes this is now the 3rd time I believe Ive mentioned this... "The rifle design commonly known as the AR15/M16 family of rifles" which is still their basis on classification; and again if someone was to bring one to the RCMP for classification now, it would be deemed a variant of the AR-10B, which was of original design when the rifle first came to light for military trials way back when...
As the CFC is changing classifications of firearms (ie. Dlask's Shorty 870 Shotgun over too restricted even with the factory mounted pistol grip, the AP-80 .22LR going to prohib because it looks like an AK), some publicly (AP-80) and some of them (Dlasks 870) not so much, so whos not to think that in that time that was posted there has not been a classification change... The only way I would ever believe this whole debate if the CFC was to publicly come out this very day, and say there are Non-Restricted AR-10s.... cause I am done posting on this thread in my mind all I am doing is
Cheers Everyone!
Make Model Manufacturer Type Action Class Calibre Shots Barrel Reg_date Client Pcode Prov Country Lost Stolen Recovered loststolen_year
Armalite AR-10 Non-restricted Semi-Automatic Rifle 7.62 X 51 (308) Multi-shots > 470mm 3/20/2003 Individual T5 AB Canada \r NULL
Armalite AR10 Non-restricted Semi-Automatic Rifle 7.62 mm Multi-shots > 470mm 7/3/2003 Individual P6 ON Canada
armalite ar10 Non-restricted Semi-Automatic Rifle 308 Multi-shots > 470mm 12/6/2002 Individual P0 ON Canada
Armalite AR-10 Non-restricted Semi-Automatic Rifle 7.62 X 51 (308) Multi-shots > 470mm 3/20/2003 Individual T5 AB Canada \r NULL
Armalite AR10 Non-restricted Semi-Automatic Rifle 7.62 mm Multi-shots > 470mm 7/3/2003 Individual P6 ON Canada
armalite ar10 Non-restricted Semi-Automatic Rifle 308 Multi-shots > 470mm 12/6/2002 Individual P0 ON Canada
BattleRife
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The AR-10B does not follow the original design as subjected to military trials in 1957. It is simply a modern Armalite AR-10 dressed up with old looking furniture.
Grad C Nixon,
You've been shown that you were wrong. The non restricted AR10 original design is in the FRT table. Stating that the current classification would be ignored is speculation and comes across as simply trying to use the current fear to cover up for your original mistake. One of the issues with the current situation has been oversights such as the AP 80 which is actually the exact same firearm by the same company as the Mitchell AK22. While I agree it's BS to call this a variant of the AK, it is listed by name as prohibited. Other classifications such as the zoraki starter pistol also fall into the prohibited class due to the same pistol being made as the streamer 1014 which fires rubber bullets.
The bottom line is they are still playing by the rules as they have been written. Which is their job. Firearms such as the Tavor, Pe90, ACR, PS90, Storm CX4, CZ858, Kel Tec RFB etc are all non restricted if the barrels are long enough. We've had other cool firearms also brought in as non restricted lately such as the Kriss Super V.
The original AR10 rifles would still fall under non restricted class.
You've been shown that you were wrong. The non restricted AR10 original design is in the FRT table. Stating that the current classification would be ignored is speculation and comes across as simply trying to use the current fear to cover up for your original mistake. One of the issues with the current situation has been oversights such as the AP 80 which is actually the exact same firearm by the same company as the Mitchell AK22. While I agree it's BS to call this a variant of the AK, it is listed by name as prohibited. Other classifications such as the zoraki starter pistol also fall into the prohibited class due to the same pistol being made as the streamer 1014 which fires rubber bullets.
The bottom line is they are still playing by the rules as they have been written. Which is their job. Firearms such as the Tavor, Pe90, ACR, PS90, Storm CX4, CZ858, Kel Tec RFB etc are all non restricted if the barrels are long enough. We've had other cool firearms also brought in as non restricted lately such as the Kriss Super V.
The original AR10 rifles would still fall under non restricted class.
CST Grad C.Nixon
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- Saskatchewan
PM sent
I suspect that Grad C Nixon is correct in that the RCMP/CFC Lab chimps would classify any sort of "AR10 like" rifle as a restricted varient of an ar15. While one may win in court (no guarantee there as judges are no smarter that anyone else), what company is gonna throw the dice on that sort of gamble?
