More M14 reloading questions

G

gyppo

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
15   0   0
Location
North Vancouver, BC
Here we go:

Question 1:
Does anyone use slightly reduced loads, and what is your case life like?
I've read from numerous sources that 4 times is the max for reloading for the M14. However most people who load for the M14 use full power loads.
I do check my brass for thinning in the case hear with a curved metal wire. After 2 loadings (1 full 1 reduced) there is no sign and minimal case stretch.

Question 2:
has anyone tried using 110 grain plated bullets (designed for the m1 carbine)? these cost as little as 9c/bullet which is almost what my gas checked home-cast bullets end up costing. I would love to shoot them instead, and not have to do all the work and handle as much lead. I do know that round nose bullets feed in the M14; I have fired about 60 rounds using plated Frontier game ranger bullets (from Higginson, 17c/bullet) which are flat point and they feed just fine.
I'm more curious about accuracy of light bullets in the m14.

Thanks!
Benoit
 
ok, first question- the rifle is BALANCED for 150-173 grain loads and if you go the REDUCED route, you're going to get ftfs, ftes, wtfs, and a bunch of other things that will make you swear- for example, using 168 grain bullets, the SUGGESTED LOAD is 43.9 to 44 grains of ww748( that the m118 slr load developed for the 14) - special long range- drop that down to 43 or 42 and it becomes UNRELIABLE as all get out- at 42 you're not getting enough gas to push the piston all the way back, and it's a little better at 43- and that's using a usgi rifle, not a norc-
about the LIGHTEST load for the m14 that uas been used sucessfully is 130 grains, and then the shooter rebalanced the rifle for the load using a lighter mainspring and hammer- too much work and too demanding for a newby- just like reducing the trigger pull below 4 pounds
as for case life expectancy, take it as BIBLE that 4 and out rule- i've had a CASE HEAD FAILURE in which the bolt locked up, the magazine split and stock split and damned near killed myself with an over-used winchester brass- there's PICTURES of case head failures on the net and elsewhere - that's what happens when you reload an m14 case too many times- typically, it EXPLODES just ahead of the extractor groove
 
Agree with t-star, 4 to 5 loads max then grab new brass.
Even using Lapua, which is more than able to take the beating of an M1A, it still gets tossed after 4-5.

I had case head separation after 6 a while back. I pushed that batch as far as it would go and I won't be doing that again.

Full and Light loads depend on the powder. Some powders produce more pressure, like 8208. A min 8208 load has the same pressure as a mid 4895 load.
 
It depends on the rifle / chamber / load / brass / etc

the more you push back the shoulder the shorter your brass will last

and yes you can get more than 6 reloading you just have to check brass

The key to the Norinco/ m1a working correctly is Port pressure / powder selection

to high and you have proplems / too low and it will not function
 
it EXPLODES just ahead of the extractor groove
Click to expand...

Pics for the OP. Thought I still had em
Lapua after 7 loads (according to my notes)

2.jpg

31.jpg

4.jpg

1.jpg
 
I'm thinking a tight chamber will help with brass life as well though better safe than sorry and I don't fancy blowing up my gun to save a few pennies. I usually lose my brass in the snow and grass before i'd hit my 4th reload anyway.

I and a number of others have had good accuracy with 110 grain Hornady's, but I don't know about round nose bullets.
 
Well i got into reloading a little late this past year and only ended up making 2 loads ..

Federal brass 42 grains of Varget , 168 Match hollow point BT , OAL 2.830 , cci primers .

Another load using 41.0 grains of Varget , 168 MHPBT , OAL 2.775

At 41 grains the rifle cycled perfectly with the recoil roughly feeling like a .223 and got about a 3 inch group @ 100 yards , not great but hey it was my first time getting truly sighted in @ 100. (this was also with extra power recoil spring).
 
funny, i found exceedingly POORER accuracy with the lighter bullets, and this is backed up by the published articles in m14 match loads- your ideal is the 165-168 grain, both for realiablity and acciuracy- take a look at the articles by zediker and others( esp our own mystic) and you'll see what i mean-
as for tight chambers, unless you have a smith install a custom barrel, it ain't going to happen- they are machined a tad on the loose side for realiblity so you can use what ever ammo you're issued and still work- tight chambers + dirt from wherever = stoppages, something you don't want in a battle rifle; which is what the 14 is-
 
I load my M14 brass 5x and then they get moved to my bolt rifle, where a case separation is NBD. Typically get 3-4 more firings once moved to the bolt rifle, but that's with neck sizing only, and slightly milder loads.
 
Interestingly enough, I experimented with a reduced handload for my M14 back a few years ago.

I apparently scoured the net and found a Hodgson's 'youth' load listed as 125 grain Nosler BT, 38 grains of H4895 with a COAL of 2.800". At the time I was concerned with having a high enough pressure to operate the op rod thus recocking and ejecting the action.

I tested 38, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44 and 45 grains of H4895 using 125 Grains Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. Also CCI # 200 primers in a Rem case.

38 grains - very pronounced mechanical noise during cycling. Caron found in rim and on neck. Overall dirty case. Groupings avg 2" @ 50 yards. Next to no recoil.

40 - 41 grains - targets approximately 2" groupings, mild recoil, normal cycling with no malfunctions

42 grains - normal carbon, groupings 1.457" and 1.7745". Most accurate from all the charges tried.

43 - 44 grains - same as 40-41 grains with slightly less accurate groupings.

45 grains - normal carbon, groupings approximately 2" @ 50 yards.

My final conclusion was "Sadly you cannot polish a turd. Not only is the best group only averaging 1.5" AT 50 yards, but hte bullets are easily twice as expensive as others. I think this path had lead to a dead end."

Hope this helped.

Edit - I seem to have had another try at it a few months later, only using Sierra #2120's. I'll save some typing and give you my conclusion, "43 grains saw the best results. bullet costs 1/2 the price of the Noslers BT's. These bullets are succeptable to denting on the tips which in theory could affect accuracy but while the bullets had quite a bit more variation in their tolerances from tip to base, the accuracy has far surpassed the Noslers. 0.750" groups at 50 yards.
 
Thanks for the replies people.

From lack of input from people using reduced loads about case life, I will not use my cases more than 4 times. Stories about case head separation are scary. The more I read about reloading for the m14, the more I feel like getting rid of it and buying a combloc gun that eats surplus ammo

I was asking about reduced loads because I'm experimenting with a 170 grain cast bullet and IMR 4064. I've tried 35 grains which cycles the action just fine although accuracy leaves a lot to be desired (bullet diameter is also too small for the bore on my gun and I have to bore out my sizer to .310 or .311 but that's another matter). Velocity should be in the 2000fps range, which I can only estimate since I can't use my chronograph at the indoor range. The edge of the primers hardly flattens. They end up looking like the primers from my plain base cast loads on the 45-70, which are very low pressure. I assumed the lower pressure would mean increased case life, but since there is so little about this on the internet I'm going to assume that the pressure is still high enough to cause significant friction and resistance during extraction, especially since the bullet is moving slower than full power loads thus staying in the barrel longer, maintaining pressure inside the case longer.

Does this make any sense?

Benoit
 
gyppo said:
Thanks for the replies people.

From lack of input from people using reduced loads about case life, I will not use my cases more than 4 times. Stories about case head separation are scary. The more I read about reloading for the m14, the more I feel like [strike]getting rid of it and [/strike]buying a combloc gun that eats surplus ammo
Click to expand...

Nah, nothing to be scared about. If the case head separated, in all likely hood the rifle would eject the separated case head and then try to shove a new round into the chamber which still had the front section of the case lodge in it. The floating firing pin would indent the primer (as it does stuck case or not) but would not set it off. In this case, you could just pull the live round out, and then put a brass rod down the barrel and hit it a couple times to dislodge the broken case, or better use a .308 case extraction tool.

Sadly, even with reduced loads, my advice is to toss rounds after 6 firings in the M14. Period. The M14 has the most violent extraction process of all the semi's I know of.

5 years reloading and shootin my M14, never had a case separate on me yet (or a FTF or FTE either for that matter!). Interestingly enough, in "Reloading for the Match M14" by Glen D. Zediker, I quote, " One thing an M14 owner aboslutly, unequivocally must accept is short case life.", "the M14 has about the quickest operation of any auto-loading rifle - so much so that the bolt can unlock before teh case has fully retracted from its expanded dimentions.", "The net result is that some amount of additional expansion frequently occurs in a case fired through an M14."
 
Stories about case head separation are scary. The more I read about reloading for the m14, the more I feel like getting rid of it
Click to expand...

Hang on. Don't do that. Our advice is just advice.

If you reload any brass to the extreme.....no matter what firearm.....it will separate.
We're just trying to give you a guideline and some experience.

Those pics I posted of separation were from ME, pushing the limits. Nothing to do with the rifle ;)

Was trying to help you, not scare you :D

Will be sending you a PM shortly. Still have a few cases from the 7 load batch with imminent case head separation.
I'll mail one to you for reference.

You can see first hand what it looks like outside and what it feels like inside when you run a clip over it.

Won't cost you anything, it's on me.

Don't give up :HR:
 
Regarding the light bullets, i load to the design of the rifle, which was originally for 150 ish bullet (depending on the source). I use 150's. I also load for 2,725 fps., again, that is within the design spec.

With reference to the cases, when I had my Norc bolt in mine, I noted that the cases really stretched after firing. The headspace gauges agreed. So I raised my loading die about 0.006". I have cases fired 5 times, with no appreciable wear (fatigue signs). They do however take a beating at the case head from the extraction and require tender loving care to ensure there are no burrs, etc which would affect the bolt from going into battery.

When I replaced my bolt with USGI, the chamber was much tighter with ther bolt in battery and therefore I eliminated the spacing. I have cases with 3 firings now and the extraction is not as severe (than with the Norc bolt).

If you want to use your cases, just watch for the signs. Cut a case open if you can and mic the wall thickness against a good case. That's what I did. See for yourself and experiment.
 
I load 150 FMJ bullets to NATO standard velocity for my Noinco M14, and no way in hell do I throw away brass that has nothing wrong with it. I have cases that have a documented 15 firings on them, I can you the date and place of each firing. The vast majority of case failures are due to neck splits.

I don't recall having had a case head separation in my M14, but I have had them in other rifles, and they are not a big deal. I generally don't notice them until I go to pick up my brass, and when I realize what happened, I usually let out a small giggle. Case head failures are dangerous, but those are usually the product of bad cases, not the rifle.
 
slushee said:
Nah, nothing to be scared about. If the case head separated, in all likely hood the rifle would eject the separated case head and then try to shove a new round into the chamber which still had the front section of the case lodge in it. The floating firing pin would indent the primer (as it does stuck case or not) but would not set it off. In this case, you could just pull the live round out, and then put a brass rod down the barrel and hit it a couple times to dislodge the broken case, or better use a .308 case extraction tool.

Sadly, even with reduced loads, my advice is to toss rounds after 6 firings in the M14. Period. The M14 has the most violent extraction process of all the semi's I know of.

5 years reloading and shootin my M14, never had a case separate on me yet (or a FTF or FTE either for that matter!). Interestingly enough, in "Reloading for the Match M14" by Glen D. Zediker, I quote, " One thing an M14 owner aboslutly, unequivocally must accept is short case life.", "the M14 has about the quickest operation of any auto-loading rifle - so much so that the bolt can unlock before teh case has fully retracted from its expanded dimentions.", "The net result is that some amount of additional expansion frequently occurs in a case fired through an M14."
Click to expand...

you"ve NEVER had it happen, have you-? theoretically,the excess gas is SUPPOSED to go out through the drain hole and leave the gun harmlessly- well folks, that AIN'T WHAT HAPPENS- READ WHAT HAPPENED TO ME when the head lets go- it's called a "catastrophic head failure " for a reason- and the bolt won't unlock until you strip it down and bang on it with your boot or hammer- it's also why they issue a ruptured /broken case extractor- i got my m14 ( chinese ) back in 89, but the failure i had was with a usgi springfield isreali - one out of that famous "container" so the quality of the rifle was not in doubt
 
it also depends on WHAT you use your rifle for- your 7.62x39 is really just a LIGHT 30-30 whereas your m14/305/m1a whatever is a FULL POWER 308 WINCHESTER-that means you can do most anything with it, and considerably LONGER distances- if you want to plink and goof off, then by all means get a sks or 858 or 58 or wahtever- if you're serious, keep your 14, with all of its weight ,shortcomings etc- myself, i'd NEVER have anything in 7.62 x39 as there's NOTHING in any of my diciplines that would require it- i wouldn't even have an ar except for y2k and wanting a commonality with our armed forces in view of the then "russian threat
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom