Barnes TSX bullets characteristic

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Six Star

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I loaded a series of 300 Win Mag cartriges in various powders (RE22 and H4350) and weights under Barnes 180gr TSX BT bullets.
My rifle was zeroed very nicely using factory Federal Premium 180gr ammunition, and I was somewhat surprised to find the Barnes bullets POI was about 3" to the right of the Federal ammo at 200 yards.
The groups were very nice with both, but what on earth would cause the Barnes bullets to swoop 3" to the right like that? Is that usual?
We were shooting the same ammunition through two different rifles with the same result, btw... A Savage 111 and a Browning X-bolt.
 
Point of impact between different bullets, powders, charge weights, etc., is pretty normal. It is kind of unusual that two different rifles had the same result. Both of them were 3" to the right, or both of them had a different point of impact?
 
Any barnes will be longer than an equal weighing lead bullet. It's just the harmonics of it all. Once you know that's where it shoots adjust accordingly.
 
Kelly got it, the barrel was pointing to the right the moment the TSX left the muzzle. Sure interesting that the same results occured with two different rifles though. I assume the barrel length, contour, and so on are very similar.
 
TSX bullets will often have a different POI than a lead cup and core bullet.

3 inches is OK as long as the groups are OK. Great bullets.

This one came out of a zebra my son shot, weighed 164 grains out of 168.

kalaharioryx166.jpg


This one did even better, broke both shoulder blades of a big moose, weighed 167 grains afterwards.

2006baytree035.jpg
 
jbmauser said:
Point of impact between different bullets, powders, charge weights, etc., is pretty normal. It is kind of unusual that two different rifles had the same result. Both of them were 3" to the right, or both of them had a different point of impact?
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Yes, I appreciate that different components will cause a different POI, but 3"? I've never seen such a variation before at such a short range, especially exhibiting the same variation with two quite different rifles.

Edited to add: My response looks a bit brusque in retrospect....you're quite right, one shouldn't be surprised at any variation in POI when trying different loads using different components. :)
 
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Longshot said:
Any barnes will be longer than an equal weighing lead bullet. It's just the harmonics of it all. Once you know that's where it shoots adjust accordingly.
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Now why didn't I think of that. :redface: The Barnes bullet is about 1/4" longer than an equivalent Speer Grand Slam or Nosler. The amount of variation still surprises me, but if that's how the Barnes shoot, then that's how they shoot. We'll adjust our scopes accordingly.
So....you some kind of expert or something? :p;):D
 
Boomer said:
Kelly got it, the barrel was pointing to the right the moment the TSX left the muzzle. Sure interesting that the same results occured with two different rifles though. I assume the barrel length, contour, and so on are very similar.
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Yes it is very interesting, and a great demonstration of physics.
Both rifles are similar, except my son's Browning has an extra 1" of barrel length. His rifle deflected the bullet slightly farther to the right than my rifle, but that makes sense now.
My son's Browning X-bolt is probably the more accurate rifle, but I'm a better shot. :D
 
martinbns said:
TSX bullets will often have a different POI than a lead cup and core bullet.

3 inches is OK as long as the groups are OK. Great bullets.
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My son and I are quite impressed with the accuracy of the TSX bullets, particularly compared to Grand Slams (mediocre accuracy, even at 100yds) and Nosler Partitions (very nice, but the TSX group tighter). I don't hunt myself, but my son has just replaced his old reliable Savage 30-06 with a "Reliable" Browning X-Bolt 300 Win Mag. My TSX loads were more accurate than Federal Premium Accubonds, and I'm very pleased with that.....I am rarely able to improve on Federal factory ammunition.
The most accurate TSX load so far is 71.5gr of Reloader 22, with 75.0gr a close second. Barnes lists their maximum load with the TSX bullet at 73.0gr, so I think I'll load up a batch at 72.0gr and, if they're accurate, call it a day.
I achieved one 0.6" three shot group @ 100yds, but that was just dumb luck....the rest were all consistent 1" and slightly under 1" groups with the 71.5gr Re22 loads with 180gr TSX bullets.
 
What would happen if you had a rocket/missile the same weight as the next but 25% longer.I am sure some big differences would be present, sry, just my brain working or lack there of.


Six Star said:
Now why didn't I think of that. :redface: The Barnes bullet is about 1/4" longer than an equivalent Speer Grand Slam or Nosler. The amount of variation still surprises me, but if that's how the Barnes shoot, then that's how they shoot. We'll adjust our scopes accordingly.
So....you some kind of expert or something? :p;):D
Click to expand...
 
Yes, I appreciate that different components will cause a different POI, but 3"? I've never seen such a variation before at such a short range, especially exhibiting the same variation with two quite different rifles.
Click to expand...

I have seen a difference of 3" at 100 yards.
 
Six Star said:
My son and I are quite impressed with the accuracy of the TSX bullets, particularly compared to Grand Slams (mediocre accuracy, even at 100yds) and Nosler Partitions (very nice, but the TSX group tighter). I don't hunt myself, but my son has just replaced his old reliable Savage 30-06 with a "Reliable" Browning X-Bolt 300 Win Mag. My TSX loads were more accurate than Federal Premium Accubonds, and I'm very pleased with that.....I am rarely able to improve on Federal factory ammunition.
The most accurate TSX load so far is 71.5gr of Reloader 22, with 75.0gr a close second. Barnes lists their maximum load with the TSX bullet at 73.0gr, so I think I'll load up a batch at 72.0gr and, if they're accurate, call it a day.
I achieved one 0.6" three shot group @ 100yds, but that was just dumb luck....the rest were all consistent 1" and slightly under 1" groups with the 71.5gr Re22 loads with 180gr TSX bullets.
Click to expand...


Then I would tell your son to go kill anything that walks in North America.
 
nodes

Six Star, the technical reasons for this is that as a barrel flexes under the stresses of a bullet being fired it does so in a circle or oval, this movement is called nodes. The frequency and size of the circle/oval is determined by the pressure and pressure/time curve. You have no way of knowing what that may be for factory ammo and only a relative basis with handloads.
3" at 100 yards is only 8.5/10000" deflection at the muzzle or .00085.
I have seen powder changes with same bullet weights change up to 6" at 100 mtrs due to the pressure/time curve differences in powder burn rates. The other factor is barrel stiffness, the lighter the barrel the greater the suseptability to nodes. In my experience the larger the caliber the less suseptible it is and the smaller the caliber and higher the velocity the greater the suseptability.
Just as an aside, the .375 H+H is known for shooting 3 different bullet weights to the same POI and I have found the same with .416 and several .458 rifles.
Hope this answers your question, in a 300 I wouldn't be surprized by a 6" change in POI with a light barrel.

Douglas
 
c-fbmi said:
Six Star, the technical reasons for this is that as a barrel flexes under the stresses of a bullet being fired it does so in a circle or oval, this movement is called nodes. The frequency and size of the circle/oval is determined by the pressure and pressure/time curve. You have no way of knowing what that may be for factory ammo and only a relative basis with handloads.
3" at 100 yards is only 8.5/10000" deflection at the muzzle or .00085.
I have seen powder changes with same bullet weights change up to 6" at 100 mtrs due to the pressure/time curve differences in powder burn rates. The other factor is barrel stiffness, the lighter the barrel the greater the suseptability to nodes. In my experience the larger the caliber the less suseptible it is and the smaller the caliber and higher the velocity the greater the suseptability.
Just as an aside, the .375 H+H is known for shooting 3 different bullet weights to the same POI and I have found the same with .416 and several .458 rifles.
Hope this answers your question, in a 300 I wouldn't be surprized by a 6" change in POI with a light barrel.

Douglas
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to share this information, Douglas...very much appreciated!
 
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