K98 SS Contract & Possible Single Rune and ZF41 Sniper

[Nabs]

I know a few of my firearms were there at the soldiers death. You hold them, look at the bullet strikes and shrapnel hits and wonder if it was slow or quick. In some ways, there is more than just blood on these rifles.

This connection is what draws me to the beaten up, well used rifles as they were there and have a story to tell.

As such, I have a great respect for them.

Blissful ignorance ? No. A learned respect for the past, most definitely.

Now, in relation to my earlier post. Would you be able to own and shoot, for example, a single rune kar98k knowing the man from the concentration camp who assembled her was possibily taken off the line and shot for not working fast enough ? Imagine then you are shown a photo of that same man moments after he was killed after assmeblimg your rifle. Tell me that doesnt put a knot in your stomach as it does mine.

 

[agentcq]

It does give one pause to think of the individuals who used or made our rifles.
I am sure that many of the KZ workers who produced my bcd G43 didn't survive due to Allied bombing which destroyed their factory. I am also aware that the KZ workers who produced my Walther Neuengamme K43 probably didn't see the end of 1945 and probably drowned when the ship they were escaping on, was mistaken as a ship full of SS guards and sunk by the Allies. Their fates are very likely similar to the KZ workers who produced my Single Rune rifle. Either they died at the hands of the Germans or the ignorance of their Soviet liberators. I am also sure that over 75% of the owners of any RC K98 that I have owned also met their fate during the war in combat or during/post war at the cruelty of the Soviets.

How many Mosin Nagants do we own were held by a Soviet as they were mowed down by their own machine guns in retreat?

Atrocities were abound during WWII and victors write the history. Neither should we forget the excessive cruelty and Nazi's and the Toten Kopf SS.

It is examples of absoulte "evilness" which must be preserved and remembered "lest we forget".

 

[Nabs]

So true and such is the life of a military surplus firearm. The only exceptions are the firearms that remained in their packing crates, never being held by a soldier.

 

[Coyote Ugly]

And now hes got it priced at $2500........for an RC!? SS or not... that is alot.

Absolutely Ridiculous at $2500.00

You can't turn a Sow's Ear into a Silk Purse!

For between $550 and $600, the Coles Imported RC K98 bnz43 single rune rifles are priced accordingly, especially for a Russian Capture.

h ttp://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10581

BNZ43 single rune 2092 excellent laminated, cupped WAA intact, v. good + $ 549.95
Butt plate, laminated has RCx milled lower band
Hand guard h-type upper band
Milled trigger guard
Milled floorplate

BNZ43 single rune 9146 excellent wood, repair in toe WAA intact, excellent $ 549.95
Flat butt plate, has RCx milled lower band
Laminated hand guard h-type upper band
Milled trigger guard
Milled floorplate

BNZ43 single rune 590 v. good laminated, flat WAA intact, excellent $ 549.95
Butt plate, has RCx milled lower band
Laminated hand guard h-type upper band
Milled trigger guard
Stamped floorplate

Another one at $600.00 (bnz 43 Single Rune)

h ttp://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7404253

Time to get on track again and move on from the touchy-feely stuff!

 

[WaffenMitUns]

Now, in relation to my earlier post. Would you be able to own and shoot, for example, a single rune kar98k knowing the man from the concentration camp who assembled her was possibily taken off the line and shot for not working fast enough ? Imagine then you are shown a photo of that same man moments after he was killed after assmeblimg your rifle. Tell me that doesnt put a knot in your stomach as it does mine.

Doubt that happened.

 

[agentcq]

Do not get me wrong, I love those Cole prices, but if you examine your link those are 2006 prices (old post) and it also had standard RC's for $200 (US pricing). What that post says is that Cole (one of the two larger importers of US RC's) determined that the market value for a single rune was 3x the price of a standard K98 back in 2006. I say market value because all those rifles sold for 3x the value of a standard RC.

Canadian RC's average $500, with Coles 2006 evaluation of single runes, that rifle is potentially worth $1500 on the Canadian market. I paid about $1300 for each rifle tops after import/export fees and taxes back in about 2010. I wanted to at least break even and Milarm offerred me $1450 in trade value for that rifle (actually $1700 if you included ammo discounts etc.). If Milarm feels they can sell that rifle for $2500 let the marked be the deciding factor. If they sell it for less, the market has decided.

An excellent example would be an MP44 that Milarm sold a few years ago. They had it listed at $12,000 but they sold it for closer to $7000 (price actualized). Two weeks ago a member on this site was selling an MP44 for only $3000. A fool parted with his money on the above MP44.

Prices actualized determine market value, only time and the re-sale of that rifle will determine the actual value of that rifle. That decision is no longer for me to decide.

The same goes for a three digit M1 Garand I sold a few years ago. I paid a premium price when Garands were abundant. I resold it when Garands were hard to come by. I recieved tons of grief from members because I listed it at a four figure value. In the end, that rifle sold (actualized price) at a four figure value. In the end I may regret that decision as now almost all M1's on this forum sell for over the $1000 price. However that is what they were priced at before the mass importation of M1's about three years ago where the price dipped to $500. In Capitalism, supply and demand determines values. That is why standard RC's have seen an increase in value (the demand is there and the supply had nearly vanished). How do you evaluate a single rune? Coles could back in 2006 held about half the stock of RC's in the US and could appraise their supply. Canada, had few to no single rune rifles, so how does one appraise their value when there is little to no supply? The answer is simple...demand will eventually determine the value of that rifle. There will be a demand at a certain price range and that price is yet to be determined.

Absolutely Ridiculous at $2500.00

You can't turn a Sow's Ear into a Silk Purse!

For between $550 and $600, the Coles Imported RC K98 bnz43 single rune rifles are priced accordingly, especially for a Russian Capture.

h ttp://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10581

BNZ43 single rune 2092 excellent laminated, cupped WAA intact, v. good + $ 549.95
Butt plate, laminated has RCx milled lower band
Hand guard h-type upper band
Milled trigger guard
Milled floorplate

BNZ43 single rune 9146 excellent wood, repair in toe WAA intact, excellent $ 549.95
Flat butt plate, has RCx milled lower band
Laminated hand guard h-type upper band
Milled trigger guard
Milled floorplate

BNZ43 single rune 590 v. good laminated, flat WAA intact, excellent $ 549.95
Butt plate, has RCx milled lower band
Laminated hand guard h-type upper band
Milled trigger guard
Stamped floorplate

Another one at $600.00 (bnz 43 Single Rune)

h ttp://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7404253

Time to get on track again and move on from the touchy-feely stuff!

 

[CanadianAR]

I just dont think your pricing calculation holds true in Canada. Almost nothing else in the gun world crosses over in canada with a similar price. There are so many more shooters with money in the US. I think the market for a $1500 RC is considerably less in canada.
But as you said, the market will decide.

 

[Coyote Ugly]

The flaw with your logic is that even today you can get a RC in the US for between $250 and $350. Your import fees don't come into the equation.

$250X3 = $750 <=======
$350X3 = $1050 X

But since your RC bnz43 has a reinforcement lug in the stock and the rune is questionable as a fake, it isn't top shelf by any means for a RC.

The $1450 Retail Credit that the store gave you equates to $725 to $850 Wholesale (or less), and that is all your dealer really has into the rifle!
So really, it's the dealer that's laughing right now as you barely broke even on paper. He's the one that will make the big profit.
It's just like the car dealer!

Do you plan on importing any more RC's any time soon?

Do not get me wrong, I love those Cole prices, but if you examine your link those are 2006 prices (old post) and it also had standard RC's for $200 (US pricing). What that post says is that Cole (one of the two larger importers of US RC's) determined that the market value for a single rune was 3x the price of a standard K98 back in 2006. I say market value because all those rifles sold for 3x the value of a standard RC.

Canadian RC's average $500, with Coles 2006 evaluation of single runes, that rifle is potentially worth $1500 on the Canadian market. I paid about $1300 for each rifle tops after import/export fees and taxes back in about 2010. I wanted to at least break even and Milarm offerred me $1450 in trade value for that rifle (actually $1700 if you included ammo discounts etc.). If Milarm feels they can sell that rifle for $2500 let the marked be the deciding factor. If they sell it for less, the market has decided.

An excellent example would be an MP44 that Milarm sold a few years ago. They had it listed at $12,000 but they sold it for closer to $7000 (price actualized). Two weeks ago a member on this site was selling an MP44 for only $3000. A fool parted with his money on the above MP44.

Prices actualized determine market value, only time and the re-sale of that rifle will determine the actual value of that rifle. That decision is no longer for me to decide.

The same goes for a three digit M1 Garand I sold a few years ago. I paid a premium price when Garands were abundant. I resold it when Garands were hard to come by. I recieved tons of grief from members because I listed it at a four figure value. In the end, that rifle sold (actualized price) at a four figure value. In the end I may regret that decision as now almost all M1's on this forum sell for over the $1000 price. However that is what they were priced at before the mass importation of M1's about three years ago where the price dipped to $500. In Capitalism, supply and demand determines values. That is why standard RC's have seen an increase in value (the demand is there and the supply had nearly vanished). How do you evaluate a single rune? Coles could back in 2006 held about half the stock of RC's in the US and could appraise their supply. Canada, had few to no single rune rifles, so how does one appraise their value when there is little to no supply? The answer is simple...demand will eventually determine the value of that rifle. There will be a demand at a certain price range and that price is yet to be determined.

 

[cyclone]

It does give one pause to think of the individuals who used or made our rifles.
I am sure that many of the KZ workers who produced my bcd G43 didn't survive due to Allied bombing which destroyed their factory. I am also aware that the KZ workers who produced my Walther Neuengamme K43 probably didn't see the end of 1945 and probably drowned when the ship they were escaping on, was mistaken as a ship full of SS guards and sunk by the Allies. Their fates are very likely similar to the KZ workers who produced my Single Rune rifle. Either they died at the hands of the Germans or the ignorance of their Soviet liberators. I am also sure that over 75% of the owners of any RC K98 that I have owned also met their fate during the war in combat or during/post war at the cruelty of the Soviets.

How many Mosin Nagants do we own were held by a Soviet as they were mowed down by their own machine guns in retreat?

Atrocities were abound during WWII and victors write the history. Neither should we forget the excessive cruelty and Nazi's and the Toten Kopf SS.

It is examples of absoulte "evilness" which must be preserved and remembered "lest we forget".

The Israeli Mauser is the embodiment of poignancy , for those very reasons....

 

[agentcq]

The one factor you forgot in your equation is that RC's have not increased in value in the US, as they have a greater supply of early import and bring back K98's. In Canada, there are many fewer K98's so RC's have increased in value.

I could have sold the rifle on consignment and possibly gotten more. If/when the rifle sold and at what price, I would have taken that money and purchased the same rifles/ammo anyhow. So at the end of the day, I saved $1450 from leaving my bank account and I was able to select the surplus ammo and rifles I wanted while they were still in stock.

In my opinon it was a win-win senario. I don't plan on importing any RC's and if anyone wants to, so be it.

It is not my right to judge what firearms people want to import or to judge the values which dealers or individuals assess them as.

The flaw with your logic is that even today you can get a RC in the US for between $250 and $350. Your import fees don't come into the equation.

$250X3 = $750 <=======
$350X3 = $1050 X

But since your RC bnz43 has a reinforcement lug in the stock and the rune is questionable as a fake, it isn't top shelf by any means for a RC.

The $1450 Retail Credit that the store gave you equates to $725 to $850 Wholesale (or less), and that is all your dealer really has into the rifle!
So really, it's the dealer that's laughing right now as you barely broke even on paper. He's the one that will make the big profit.
It's just like the car dealer!

Do you plan on importing any more RC's any time soon?

 

[Coyote Ugly]

RC's have increased in value both in Canada and the US by the same amount.

When they were $250 in the US, they were $400 in Canada.
Now up to $350 in the US and $500 in Canada.
The Delta or Change is the same of $100 in both cases.

It's the Canadian Dealers that set the price as the shipping, fees and importing cost more to have them brought in from the US.
The $400 Canadian -$250 US = $150 Extra in Canada

The hidden costs that are absorbed by the consumer are what I think you preceiving as "Increased Value".

Tit for Tat, a RC is as low as you can go for a collectable, but makes a good shooter or truck gun, and for that reason there's a limit as to what they are worth. Pay too much for and RC and you are better off to start looking up the food chain to a superior matching rifle.

The one factor you forgot in your equation is that RC's have not increased in value in the US, as they have a greater supply of early import and bring back K98's. In Canada, there are many fewer K98's so RC's have increased in value.

I could have sold the rifle on consignment and possibly gotten more. If/when the rifle sold and at what price, I would have taken that money and purchased the same rifles/ammo anyhow. So at the end of the day, I saved $1450 from leaving my bank account and I was able to select the surplus ammo and rifles I wanted while they were still in stock.

In my opinon it was a win-win senario. I don't plan on importing any RC's and if anyone wants to, so be it.

It is not my right to judge what firearms people want to import or to judge the values which dealers or individuals assess them as.