Trophy Hunting vs Meat/Subsistence Hunting

[c-fbmi]

Allow me to be clear in what im trying to say.

To me trophy hunting is someone that just hunts for the trophy, the meat is harvested only cause they have too, all they really want is the rack or hyde. I dont agree with that type of hunting but i dont condemme those that do. Some will pay big bucks to go to Africa just to see an elephant go down, thats not my cup of tea. I dont agree with it, but im not a member of PETA or anything out protesting it, and if you were a Trophy hunter id still buy you a beer.


Then there are those that love hunting, love being outdoors, but they are mainly there for the meat as its not available anywhere else. Nothing wrong with enjoying hunting, i enjoy hunting every year. And to be honest if wild meat were available in the store i would not begrudge anybody who still wanted to hunt. Hunting is fun.

As I said in a previous post, i love fish too, you can get fish in the store but its much more fun to catch fresh fish yourself.

I am not ANTI-HUNTING lol, im anti Trophy hunting. Take a big bull moose that has a record number of points, Id rather see that old fella live then hang on somebodys wall, same as a record brown bear, let the old fella live his life out. Now if its the end of the season and there were no other options then mr big bull is comming home to the freezer. I just dont agree with people that go out and seek this relics of the forest, just so they can have their head on a wall. Its not my cup of tea at all, but as i said id still buy ya a beer after the hunt.

I am that guy, I hunt for the biggest and oldest of everthing so that I may proudly hang his antlers, horns, tusks or hide on my walls. I DO NOT hunt for the meat, I make sure every bit is used but I will never say I hunt for the meat. It's way cheaper and /or better at the store/farmer/rancher IMHO.
I am a predator of the highest order and make no excuses for it. Cave men used to bring home tusks of mammoth and pile outside their caves to indicate they were a highly successful hunter and thereby attract more women, hence expanding the gene pool of the more successful hunters.
Boiled down to it's basics this is what trophy hunting has evolved from, an obvious statement that I am a better hunter than you. It is genetically ingrained in our DNA, and I embrace it. It says to all, that I bring home the meat better than you, that I am a more successful predator than you.

On the management side, I take the oldest and quite likely the least productive of a species. Which is continuing to eat food from the available food source that could be used by younger more productive members of the species. His genes have no doubt already been insured many seasons over so I'm not detracting from the gene pool. He will no doubt die from predation, starvation or disease in short order and his magnificence will be lost forever. If I harvest him he lives on in my mind and on my wall for all to see him in his geatest moment after fullfilling his role on the planet. I might also say that his death at my hand will be most certainly less painfull and protracted compared to what Mother Nature has in store for him.

Internationally speaking, I spend 10's of thousands of dollars primarily in third world nations. This money creates jobs, funds anti-poaching programs, game management, and educational programs. The indigenous peoples see the value in game animals instead of competition which promotes a sense of stewardship instead of a wish to rid the country of the competitor. This in turn makes this place/country a more sought after hunting area and so on and so on and so on. More jobs, more income, more anti-poaching, more education and better game management.
I'm sure that Ardent, Dogleg and others who have made the trip across will concurr, nothing goes to waste in these countries, absolutely nothing. I do not worry that I personally didn't use all the meat because I know for sure it was used and by people in far greater need of it than I.

Isn't this what all we hunters want is the best game management for all species worldwide, I know I do.

Sincerely,
Douglas

 

[H4831]

Someone mentioned that a trophy doesn't have to be a huge head, or huge horns or antlers. That is so right.
For any of you western Canadians who keep your old issues of the Outdoor Edge magazine, which comes to us semi monthly, courteous of our association with our provincial wildlife federations, Manitoba to BC, there is something you may want to look up.
In the Nov./Dec issue of 1999, I had a story printed. It was named, "A Fine Trophy."
The animal involved was a billy goat with 6 inch horns, which I shot in the fog, thinking it was a good billy at a fair range. Instead, it was a junior billy at close range!
In spite of that, it was such a good trip in strange mountains and no other hunters in the area, with the finest hunting partner anyone could hope for, and as a result the little goat was a great trophy.
The people that print the magazine thought it was good enough to make it the prime story in that issue.

 

[saskgunowner101]

I love the hunt and the harvest, from the the trigger to my plate and all that happened before the trigger part. I've never shot a trophy but won't judge another for their reasons for hunting.

 

[Pseudo]

I would only hunt something that I was going to eat or pest control which is how I was taught by my old man. To each there own, with that being said tho, it probably more expensive to go on a hunt then it is to contact a local farmer and purchase half a cow or pig and have it butchered.

 

[kevguy]

IMO that should be illegal if it's not already, and the people who waste food like that should be strung up by their balls.

There are female hunters too ya know. How you gonna string them up by the balls?

 

[jaydog]

....
Internationally speaking, I spend 10's of thousands of dollars primarily in third world nations. This money creates jobs, funds anti-poaching programs, game management, and educational programs. The indigenous peoples see the value in game animals instead of competition which promotes a sense of stewardship instead of a wish to rid the country of the competitor. This in turn makes this place/country a more sought after hunting area and so on and so on and so on. More jobs, more income, more anti-poaching, more education and better game management.
....
Isn't this what all we hunters want is the best game management for all species worldwide, I know I do.

You have just pointed out the single most powerful game management tool available today... animals having intrinsic value. Especially in developing nations, nothing stops poaching and destruction due to competition with local stock animals quicker.

Someone mentioned that a trophy doesn't have to be a huge head, or huge horns or antlers. That is so right.
...., it was such a good trip in strange mountains and no other hunters in the area, with the finest hunting partner anyone could hope for, and as a result the little goat was a great trophy.
The people that print the magazine thought it was good enough to make it the prime story in that issue.

My kind of trophy hunter.

Its not an easy decision as this thread shows. I grew up in a 'you kill it, you eat it' household and always shot the 2 year old cow moose over the 10 year old bull. A bunch of decades later I get a tingle when I see a 7x9 bull elk and have a couple heads being turned into euro mounts. I still focus on feeding hungry mouths though and actually consider myself a subsistance hunter- there is not an ounce of meat eaten in this household that wasn't harvested by my wife or I.

In the end it matters how many critters are killed, of what age and what time of year for game management. What you do with them is a matter of moral/ethical debate.

BTW: I. Love. Hunting.
All of it.

 

[GunGuy34]

I am that guy, I hunt for the biggest and oldest of everthing so that I may proudly hang his antlers, horns, tusks or hide on my walls. I DO NOT hunt for the meat, I make sure every bit is used but I will never say I hunt for the meat. It's way cheaper and /or better at the store/farmer/rancher IMHO.
I am a predator of the highest order and make no excuses for it. Cave men used to bring home tusks of mammoth and pile outside their caves to indicate they were a highly successful hunter and thereby attract more women, hence expanding the gene pool of the more successful hunters.
Boiled down to it's basics this is what trophy hunting has evolved from, an obvious statement that I am a better hunter than you. It is genetically ingrained in our DNA, and I embrace it. It says to all, that I bring home the meat better than you, that I am a more successful predator than you.

On the management side, I take the oldest and quite likely the least productive of a species. Which is continuing to eat food from the available food source that could be used by younger more productive members of the species. His genes have no doubt already been insured many seasons over so I'm not detracting from the gene pool. He will no doubt die from predation, starvation or disease in short order and his magnificence will be lost forever. If I harvest him he lives on in my mind and on my wall for all to see him in his geatest moment after fullfilling his role on the planet. I might also say that his death at my hand will be most certainly less painfull and protracted compared to what Mother Nature has in store for him.

Internationally speaking, I spend 10's of thousands of dollars primarily in third world nations. This money creates jobs, funds anti-poaching programs, game management, and educational programs. The indigenous peoples see the value in game animals instead of competition which promotes a sense of stewardship instead of a wish to rid the country of the competitor. This in turn makes this place/country a more sought after hunting area and so on and so on and so on. More jobs, more income, more anti-poaching, more education and better game management.
I'm sure that Ardent, Dogleg and others who have made the trip across will concurr, nothing goes to waste in these countries, absolutely nothing. I do not worry that I personally didn't use all the meat because I know for sure it was used and by people in far greater need of it than I.

Isn't this what all we hunters want is the best game management for all species worldwide, I know I do.

Sincerely,
Douglas

Well man thats cool, your honest. As i said id buy ya a beer and love to listen to those stories. Its just not my cup of tea.

I have no doubt that most on here are better hunters then I. At least your honest, your in it for the thrill and kill.

 

[GunGuy34]

Someone mentioned that a trophy doesn't have to be a huge head, or huge horns or antlers. That is so right.
For any of you western Canadians who keep your old issues of the Outdoor Edge magazine, which comes to us semi monthly, courteous of our association with our provincial wildlife federations, Manitoba to BC, there is something you may want to look up.
In the Nov./Dec issue of 1999, I had a story printed. It was named, "A Fine Trophy."
The animal involved was a billy goat with 6 inch horns, which I shot in the fog, thinking it was a good billy at a fair range. Instead, it was a junior billy at close range!
In spite of that, it was such a good trip in strange mountains and no other hunters in the area, with the finest hunting partner anyone could hope for, and as a result the little goat was a great trophy.
The people that print the magazine thought it was good enough to make it the prime story in that issue.

I would keep the rack too if it was decent but last years bull only had 7 points so that wasnt something i wanted to hang over the shed lol.


Im proud too when i get a nice animal, but it isnt my purpose, its for the meat. We got this moose in Newfoundland, where im orginally from. I still own a home there and hunt with my brother, who is really the hunter in the family. This was last September about two weeks into the season. We had been up early morning after morning and nothing only cows. My brother had a bull only license. So we said the hell with it, lets just go for a quad ride and have a mug up. And thats when we ran into this fella. Perhaps in my own way im a Trophy hunter too, after all its such a grey area.



Pics deleted. I dont feel like leaving my mug up here permanently.

 

[H4831]

I would keep the rack too if it was decent but last years bull only had 7 points so that wasnt something i wanted to hang over the shed lol.


Im proud too when i get a nice animal, but it isnt my purpose, its for the meat. We got this moose in Newfoundland, where im orginally from. I still own a home there and hunt with my brother, who is really the hunter in the family. This was last September about two weeks into the season. We had been up early morning after morning and nothing only cows. My brother had a bull only license. So we said the hell with it, lets just go for a quad ride and have a mug up. And thats when we ran into this fella. Perhaps in my own way im a Trophy hunter too, after all its such a grey area.

That sure is a good looking young moose, well taken care of. Would that brisket ever be good, very slowly cooked, leaning near a fire of poplar coals.
Can't beat a northern moose for good eating.

 

[GunGuy34]

That sure is a good looking young moose, well taken care of. Would that brisket ever be good, very slowly cooked, leaning near a fire of poplar coals.
Can't beat a northern moose for good eating.

Thats a Newfoundland moose lol. I find the more fat thats there just under the skin the better tasting it is.

 

[Zanelike]

It isn't this simple to me. It is more cerebral than this.

Basically, I want to take responsibility for the meat my family consumes. I want to be directly involved all parts of the process from selection of the animal, to the humane killing of the animal, to dressing, cutting, packing, and finally preparing it to be consumed.

To answer your question; Yes. However as long as I am able to do it myself, I will, due to the above. When I am too old and frail to do this, I will gladly accept a steady supply of wild meat from those who I have raised or known long enough that I know they share the same respect and appreciation for this natural source of food as I do.

I do enjoy hunting, if that is what you are asking. However I am damned sure that subsistence hunters all over the world, for ages, have also enjoyed it. The adrenaline, pride, and satisfaction is undeniable, but this is universal and does not put one into any of the defined categories because it applies to all of them. So I enjoy it thoroughly, but the image in my mind is sitting at the table with my family and enjoying a great, nutritious meal, not "getting the big buck".

What you just described about the enjoyment of hunting is the definition of 'sport hunting'.

sport - success or pleasure derived from an activity such as hunting or fishing:
Straight from the Oxford Dictionary
The anti`s love to use the term `sport hunter` in a derogatory way. They associate it as the fun killing of animals when it is the enjoyment of everything to do with hunting (hiking, tracking, stalking, field dressing, etc.) whether you are successful or not.
I am a sport hunter. I hunt for the fun and love of the hunt. Whether I win or lose (harvest an animal or not) isn`t what is important but the enjoyment of getting out there. I`ve stalked animals just to see how close I could get before they caught on to me. That is part of the enjoyment. I hunt for fun first, meat second. That doesn`t mean I throw out the antlers either. That just helps me relive the hunt over and over again just by looking at them again.

 

[H4831]

Thats a Newfoundland moose lol. I find the more fat thats there just under the skin the better tasting it is.

Newfoundland isn't exactly in the tropics!

 

[GunGuy34]

Newfoundland isn't exactly in the tropics!

no it isnt i was figuring you was thinking it was Alberta moose as i currently live in Fort Mcmurray.

 

[mvarley84]

I hunt for the love of the hunt...However, proper game management is my main goal. I will shoot what needs to be shot. If my zone has too many does, then any doe walking past my stand is getting taken (as long as I have a doe tag of course!). Same goes for bucks...I wont just shoot anything just to put meat in my freezer. I would much rather eat tag soup than take an animal in its reproductive prime.

LOL not sure what that makes me?? I dont necessarily hunt to put meat in the freezer, but I also dont hunt to put racks on the wall...I just love hunting!

 

[H4831]

no it isnt i was figuring you was thinking it was Alberta moose as i currently live in Fort Mcmurray.

Yes, I was thinking that it was in northern Alberta, due to the Fort McMurray connection.
So, a question. How do the moose of New foundland compare with northern Alberta moose, as to size and quality of the meat?

Looking at the picture, I thought it looked a little small for a young northern bull.

 

[ironsighter]

What you just described about the enjoyment of hunting is the definition of 'sport hunting'.

sport - success or pleasure derived from an activity such as hunting or fishing:
Straight from the Oxford Dictionary
The anti`s love to use the term `sport hunter` in a derogatory way. They associate it as the fun killing of animals when it is the enjoyment of everything to do with hunting (hiking, tracking, stalking, field dressing, etc.) whether you are successful or not.
I am a sport hunter. I hunt for the fun and love of the hunt. Whether I win or lose (harvest an animal or not) isn`t what is important but the enjoyment of getting out there. I`ve stalked animals just to see how close I could get before they caught on to me. That is part of the enjoyment. I hunt for fun first, meat second. That doesn`t mean I throw out the antlers either. That just helps me relive the hunt over and over again just by looking at them again.

Well, then by definition, perhaps I am "a sport hunter".

What I am most interested in here then is the interpretation of this term. It is clear to me that even I, a hunter, misunderstood the definition. I assumed that since I don't do it primarily for enjoyment, but nevertheless enjoy it, makes me something other than a sport hunter.

I am also very interested in the interpretation and application of the term "sport hunter" by the general public. I understand why "the antis" have a distaste for "sport hunting" if the accepted goal of this type of hunting is "recreation" and/or "enjoyment." This leaves it up to them to conclude that we enjoy killing for the sake of killing. As a hunter, I think those who focus on "the killing" are quite rare.

So maybe we need to focus on the "why" we enjoy it. When I think of the many reasons listed in this thread of "why" we all enjoy this activity, there are some which seem far more palatable to non-hunters, and others much less so.

The original post seems to be seeking an answer to why we feel we need to use "meat" as an excuse/reason for hunting. Some of us feel that we do not need to justify our choices to the general public. I think this is a dangerous line to take, because it is the general public who influence legislation. It is portions of this general public who go much further than this, with protests, sabotage, etc. Rather than confronting the general public by insisting they have no right to question our motives for hunting, a more productive approach might be public campaigns promoting the more generally admirable aspects of hunting.

If the message to the general public is "F*ck off! You have no right to question my enjoyment of hunting!" then we cannot be at all surprised if they conclude that we are a bunch of barbarians who kill for the sake of killing. If, however, our discussion with the general public is open, honest, and focuses on the aspects of hunting that they will find "respectable", the outcome will be much different.

This does not mean that we degrade ourselves into the position of the apologist. It means that we consciously decide to engage them in a conversation that they understand and can respect. Telling them to go to hell does not achieve this.

If we understand that much of the non-hunting or anti-hunting public are generally (or very specifically) concerned about the treatment of animals (it is the "unnecessary" killing that they are so uncomfortable with) then the best way to engage them is to juxtapose the maltreatment of livestock and pollution/contamination of meat products that occur in the industrial food chain against the hunter harvesting an animal which has lived its life in the wild.

I cannot count how many times I have explained this to people and have watched them sit quietly for a moment and then said "I never thought of it that way." Many of these people have then eventually questioned me about how to get into hunting. Many do not, but they also do not continue to question the fact that I hunt. If someone is interested, I will also go on to explain the enjoyment of the hunt, the stalking, the adrenaline, the camaraderie, etc.

No apology is given. A reason is provided. One that they understand and which appeals to their ideals.

 

[GunGuy34]

Yes, I was thinking that it was in northern Alberta, due to the Fort McMurray connection.
So, a question. How do the moose of New foundland compare with northern Alberta moose, as to size and quality of the meat?

Looking at the picture, I thought it looked a little small for a young northern bull.

I dont know as i have not hunted in Alberta. As I mentioned earlier the brother is the hunter in the family im not so i tend to go with him as he is a seasoned hunter, so i travel back to Newfoundland whenever he gets his license and I hunt with him, and take meat back with me to Fort Mcmurray. I have to say I like the taste of the NL moose better but thats what i grew up on, im not sure if ill never hunt in alberta. I go home to catch rabbits too. lol.

 

[ironsighter]

I dont know as i have not hunted in Alberta. As I mentioned earlier the brother is the hunter in the family im not so i tend to go with him as he is a seasoned hunter, so i travel back to Newfoundland whenever he gets his license and I hunt with him, and take meat back with me to Fort Mcmurray. I have to say I like the taste of the NL moose better but thats what i grew up on, im not sure if ill never hunt in alberta. I go home to catch rabbits too. lol.

No bunnies in Ft. McMurray? I'm surprised, because I started hunting rabbit with a sling-shot in Cold Lake when I was 12 or 13 and there were tons of them. Hoping to find some here in BC, too. I love stalking the little buggers, and I love eating them even more

 

[GunGuy34]

No bunnies in Ft. McMurray? I'm surprised, because I started hunting rabbit with a sling-shot in Cold Lake when I was 12 or 13 and there were tons of them. Hoping to find some here in BC, too. I love stalking the little buggers, and I love eating them even more

Im sure their are i just dont bother to hunt up here. I have quads, skidoo's, boats etc... all back home. Im not a hardcore hunter by any means, the brother is the Davey Crockett of the family, so i do everything with him. Its a lot of fun and i love being home in NL.

 

[jongun]

I'm all for the taking of trophy bucks and other trophies but the wanton waste of usable meat to me is completely wrong and unethical.The first thought once that trophy is harvested or actually before should be how will the meat be salvaged and stored to ensure it does not go to waste. Here in Quebec we have laws against this wasting of meat well at least for most animals obviously predators like coyote and fox are exempt also bear is the only large game you can kill and just leave in the woods(to me still wrong). We must have an over abundance of black bear cause you can buy two tags to hunt them plus with a professional trappers license you receive four tags so we must have a few around Just my opinions and to each their own