I'm looking for ideas about how to set up for practicing doubles on the cheap. We are a small club with only a few shooters and not a lot of money. Those of us who come out regularly for fun want to practice doubles now so we can compete on a semi-equal basis with the regulars at the bigger clubs. Right now we have a trap set up for doubles that is never used. A person has to sit in the trap to set the doubles by hand and people on the line have to wait a fairly long time before calling for the bird in order to be sure the person has finished. It's not an ideal situation and can be hairy because of flying debris. I have been told that an accident happened in the situation a number of years ago too involving the throwing arm. It seems possible to me because all it would take is an unthinking cleaning of the machine or something to get near the arm. It's pretty cramped in there. So, I'm looking for ideas as to how to go about setting up things better without breaking the bank. Any ideas at all might help. Thanks in advance. It seems a shame to just let a concrete bunker and trap set up go to waste. Fred
Setting Up for Doubles
- Thread starter BCFred
- Start date
Unless you want to upgrade to an auto doubles/singles machine, you have to hand set for doubles...there is a magazine type addition for old Wester1524 trap machines which auto feeds but I don't think it is made for doubles....my club here and in AZ. use Pat traps.
Doubles
Sorry I should have said lock down the single machine to the desired angle and set the skeet machine at the opposite angle.
Grant
Sorry I should have said lock down the single machine to the desired angle and set the skeet machine at the opposite angle.
Grant
Grant: would both targets be released at exactly the same time?
Beretta687EELL
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
I've set doubles targets on the old Whyte Flyer machines. The setter must be behind the throwing arm with an ample supply of targets within reach. Frankly, I would rather hand set doubles than singles. There is more time, but you need to use both hands. I can easily set them faster than they can shoot them. But, you must be behind the arm. No way would I set them from a position in front or beside the arm.
There is a fellow in BC, Ian Brotherson, I believe that makes a unit to bolt onto the Whyte Flyer machine that will set doubles automatically. I've never seen one, but understand it to be a decent set up. Price isn't cheap and I believe many would rather invest in a new doubles machine.
I've never seen the dual skeet machine set up, but understand they do work very well.
There is a fellow in BC, Ian Brotherson, I believe that makes a unit to bolt onto the Whyte Flyer machine that will set doubles automatically. I've never seen one, but understand it to be a decent set up. Price isn't cheap and I believe many would rather invest in a new doubles machine.
I've never seen the dual skeet machine set up, but understand they do work very well.
BCFred,
What club are you shooting at? Setting doubles is not that bad as there generally is more time. The doubles machine from Brotherston works really well but you may have to raise the roof on your house. Also it only holds 100 targets ,so 50 pairs asuming no breakage.
What club are you shooting at? Setting doubles is not that bad as there generally is more time. The doubles machine from Brotherston works really well but you may have to raise the roof on your house. Also it only holds 100 targets ,so 50 pairs asuming no breakage.
Bogman our range is located on a private farm near Chase. It's run by the Fish & Game Club. The farm has been up for sale for a number of years, which makes investing in development a dicey proposition as no one knows what is going to happen. Ben, the trap is set up for doubles where the birds are set at different positions on the throwing arm. It isn't simultaneous release, as you mention, and certainly not symmetrical. It would be nice to have an automatic trap without the need to have someone in the traps house. I'll research the machines mentioned, of course. But with some adjustment I might be able to get more symmetry in release (it's a near thing) and it should be good enough for us to at least practice. There are clubs with better set-ups within reasonable driving distances (N. Okanagan or Kamloops, 1 hour either way). Flyman there is no room for another machine in the trap house and it is dug into the ground too. Beretta687EELL things are very cramped in the trap house and loading is from the left side (looking out). The person is positioned beside the machine on the opposite side from the arm release, not behind the machine. I'll look again and experiment with this, of course, but I don't think one can do much better. I've been thinking of installing a foot operated cut out for the operator to use, but haven't talked to the club about it yet. I think the person doing the releasing should wear a safety mask too. Thanks very much to you all for your comments.
Beretta687EELL
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
When the arm comes around and is cocked ready to throw a target, the target setter should be positioned behind the arm, so the target is propelled away from them. If you are sitting in the house looking outward, you would be sitting on the left side of the machine.
I'm a fat guy and can get into and sit behind the machine and load targets. For a full round of doubles, you need two cases of targets readily available within reach. You need to have two stacks of targets at hand to load during each post (50 targets). You need to be able to refill these two stacks while the shooters change posts. As the arm cycles you hold a target in each hand up high so the arm does not catch your hands. Once the arm locks into place, you set the two targets on the arm and move your hands out of the way and grab another pair of targets.
It is important to be behind the arm so that the targets are thrown away from the setter. In the case of a premature release of the machine, you may get your fingers clipped, but if you are loading from the front, you may get your hands jambed by the arm.
Many shooters would rather shoot hand set doubles than those from an automatic machine. Those old machines throw a nice pair of doubles.
The new trap machines hold a lot of targets and take up a lot of room. Often they won't fit in a small trap house without significant modification. Make sure you get the dimensions before you buy a new machine.
I'm a fat guy and can get into and sit behind the machine and load targets. For a full round of doubles, you need two cases of targets readily available within reach. You need to have two stacks of targets at hand to load during each post (50 targets). You need to be able to refill these two stacks while the shooters change posts. As the arm cycles you hold a target in each hand up high so the arm does not catch your hands. Once the arm locks into place, you set the two targets on the arm and move your hands out of the way and grab another pair of targets.
It is important to be behind the arm so that the targets are thrown away from the setter. In the case of a premature release of the machine, you may get your fingers clipped, but if you are loading from the front, you may get your hands jambed by the arm.
Many shooters would rather shoot hand set doubles than those from an automatic machine. Those old machines throw a nice pair of doubles.
The new trap machines hold a lot of targets and take up a lot of room. Often they won't fit in a small trap house without significant modification. Make sure you get the dimensions before you buy a new machine.
When the arm comes around and is cocked ready to throw a target, the target setter should be positioned behind the arm, so the target is propelled away from them. If you are sitting in the house looking outward, you would be sitting on the left side of the machine.
Right, one sits on the left side in this trap house like you say. There isn't room to do anything else.
I'm a fat guy and can get into and sit behind the machine and load targets. For a full round of doubles, you need two cases of targets readily available within reach. You need to have two stacks of targets at hand to load during each post (50 targets). You need to be able to refill these two stacks while the shooters change posts. As the arm cycles you hold a target in each hand up high so the arm does not catch your hands. Once the arm locks into place, you set the two targets on the arm and move your hands out of the way and grab another pair of targets.
Probably a race on the fat thing between you and I, but ignoring that... It probably isn't possible to sit behind the machine in our set up regardless of size. I can barely get past it and the head room is poor too. The way it's done I think the boxes are placed in front of the person loading too. But I'll have to check this out. One of the chaps that practices can probably show me this.
It is important to be behind the arm so that the targets are thrown away from the setter. In the case of a premature release of the machine, you may get your fingers clipped, but if you are loading from the front, you may get your hands jambed by the arm.
Here is one of the main worries with what I've seen with this set up and I don't see how to avoid it. It is very easy to make a mistake. One doesn't like to think about them happening or, even worse, blames the injured person, but mistakes do happen...
Many shooters would rather shoot hand set doubles than those from an automatic machine. Those old machines throw a nice pair of doubles.
The new trap machines hold a lot of targets and take up a lot of room. Often they won't fit in a small trap house without significant modification. Make sure you get the dimensions before you buy a new machine.
Roger that on a new machine. From looking at newer machines and our trap house I think you are right to have reservations. The machine we have will throw doubles with hand setting and I'm hoping that with a bit of adjustment it will do the job well enough. One potential problem is the restricted opening for the bird to get out and ease of adjustment. The last time I looked it was throwing further to the left than the right. I was told it was hard to get it just right withou breaking the right bird.
Thanks for taking the time to comment B687EELL it helped a lot. Fred
Beretta687EELL
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
I belong to two clubs and we have redone the trap houses at both clubs in the last number of years. You just have to do this because the automatic won't fit if you don't. If you have some construction guys in the club and volunteer labour, you should be able to put in a nice house for a fairly reasonable price.
We can walk into all of them and stand up inside them. They also provide extra storage for targets.
We can walk into all of them and stand up inside them. They also provide extra storage for targets.
Sounds pretty nice B687EELL. But until the future location of our club is settled it probably wouldn't be done even though guys are pretty good at coming out for work parties. A good time to build bigger trap houses would be if we had to move and set up again. On the other hand, I've just had a thought that our 'A' trap house, which is bigger, and has room for target storage, just might have the room for a bigger trap. If it does, and it wouldn't be all that hard to find out, it would make more sense to replace the trap machine there with one that can be set up for doubles and singles. It wouldn't be as nice as what you guys have from the sound of it, but it would still be great
.Beretta687EELL
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Buy a new Pat trap for the larger house, you can take it with you. It takes about 3 minutes to convert a Pat to doubles from singles. The dollar is at par ... good time to buy.
My experience with Pats is they don’t throw a very nice set of doubles the right hand bird seams to come out crooked then straiten its self out. Having said that ease of use is way up there. Just wondering if the OP has a Winchester arm buster they made caracals did they not? Or will that not work for doubles all the ones I shot off were hand set
Beretta687EELL
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Nothing throws better doubles than the old hand set machines.
I know what you mean by the curl and I agree. Pats have had some work done on them and they throw better doubles than they used to. They are considered to be the standard and almost everyone is going to the Pats, at least for trap.
From a previous post ... There is a fellow in BC, Ian Brotherson, I believe that makes a unit to bolt onto the Whyte Flyer machine that will set doubles automatically. I've never seen one, but understand it to be a decent set up. Price isn't cheap and I believe many would rather invest in a new doubles machine. He doesn't make a carousel for doubles, they are for singles targets. The doubles set up are a pair of single stack units, which I think only hold 100 targets. Here is a link to their web site http://www.westernretro.net/
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For my money, I would go for Promatic machine(s). You could buy one of their ATA machines, a double or two singles;- take you pick. These are fully automatic so you don't need to worry about space for the trapper and are also portable working off a 12 volt battery. If you want to do something different in the future like 5-stand or Sporting Clays, you now have the flexibility. With two machines you can set the target directions as you please, you have a full range of speed/distance adjustment and they will hold about 300 targets each. Price for two Promatic Rangers is just over half of what you will pay for a new Pat Trap.
What an interesting idea Salter! Working off a battery and having all that flexibility is really an attractive idea. I never thought to look all that closely at the machines on a sporting course. First thing I wondered about, of course, is how they could be so much less expensive and still stand up. Still, it's worth a look... Have to research Promatic Rangers.
