Trophy Hunting vs Meat/Subsistence Hunting

Superbrad said:
I meant that removing inferior bucks from teh gene pool creates a healthier and heartier deer population... and ,leaves more does out there for the remaining bucks with better genes to breed with... one healthy prime trophy buck can mate with many does in a single season... but only if a smaller buck hasn't bread her first...

Usually you can tell by the antlers.... Sometimes other characteristics are tell-tale.... Typically, for the purposes of deer management people shoot deer without brow tines (this indicates they are on the downward side of life), deer with mismatched racks ie spike on one side fork on the other, deer with odd rack configurations such as fork sized antlers on a big body or fork size antlers pointing in strange directions.... one I harvested a couple of years back actually had almost no tail and one of the funniest looking racks I have ever seen, one side was long and curved and pointed with no brow tine and actually had a "lump" near the end of it... the other was a perfect 3 points, alsohe had almost no tail......

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you know, i remember reading years back that the surest way to grow large antlers or horns is to prevent bucks or bulls from mating. energy spent chasing does is energy spent not growing. and that some really large bucks have little interest in does, a double reason they are so big, they don't get shot because they don't get stupid and more energy to get bigger.

malformed antlers are often a sign of injury, not genetics. and a young bucks genetics are not going to change as he gets older/bigger. IMO, as hunters we should try to improve the age structure and nutrition of the herd before we start selecting for "genetics".
 
Lots of debate on this subject. I am both a trophy and meat hunter.
Moose and Elk I would not worry about horn size. If I happened to shoot a big one..bonus. I realize that if I get 1 or 2 chances at one of these I will be lucky so take what presents itself. Also I don't get out for these animals very much.
With that said I have hunted whitetails for 38 years and have shot many small bucks (and the occasional big one) over that span, and did not go many of those years without using my tag (all went to the freezer). Now that I am a little older things have changed and I have went without harvesting a deer occasionally. I have seen so many small young bucks walk right by me, stand in the open, or just act like they want to be shot, that I almost feel bad thinking of shooting them. I have grown to become more of a trophy hunter not just for the horns but for the love of getting out to the field with my Family. If I took the first unexperienced buck that walked by, or stepped out into the open I would have went home the first day most of those years, cheating me out of a long hunting season of fun with my family. The larger and older the deer is the more wary they are making it much harder to harvest one, if at all. If that makes me a bad person so be it, I can live with it.:) I hope for many more years.
 
MiG25 said:
you know, i remember reading years back that the surest way to grow large antlers or horns is to prevent bucks or bulls from mating. energy spent chasing does is energy spent not growing. and that some really large bucks have little interest in does, a double reason they are so big, they don't get shot because they don't get stupid and more energy to get bigger.

malformed antlers are often a sign of injury, not genetics. and a young bucks genetics are not going to change as he gets older/bigger. IMO, as hunters we should try to improve the age structure and nutrition of the herd before we start selecting for "genetics".
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There is undeniably a debate over using antler characteristics to determine genetics.... that being said, the antler technique has been proven time and time again on game farms and preserves...

I have never heard of a large dominant male buck that has no interest in does.... if he didn't then he wouldn't participate in the rutting behaviour and he wouldn't be the dominant buck...

I choose to do both... I have feed plots and cameras set around my property... I feed and scout all year long and I practice selective harvesting...
 
Northern Canuck said:
Lots of debate on this subject. I am both a trophy and meat hunter.
Moose and Elk I would not worry about horn size. If I happened to shoot a big one..bonus. I realize that if I get 1 or 2 chances at one of these I will be lucky so take what presents itself. Also I don't get out for these animals very much.
With that said I have hunted whitetails for 38 years and have shot many small bucks (and the occasional big one) over that span, and did not go many of those years without using my tag (all went to the freezer). Now that I am a little older things have changed and I have went without harvesting a deer occasionally. I have seen so many small young bucks walk right by me, stand in the open, or just act like they want to be shot, that I almost feel bad thinking of shooting them. I have grown to become more of a trophy hunter not just for the horns but for the love of getting out to the field with my Family. If I took the first unexperienced buck that walked by, or stepped out into the open I would have went home the first day most of those years, cheating me out of a long hunting season of fun with my family. The larger and older the deer is the more wary they are making it much harder to harvest one, if at all. If that makes me a bad person so be it, I can live with it.:) I hope for many more years.
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well said. the last whitetail buck i got in '08. i let him walk right past, then 10 minutes later he came back. i for one don't want my season to end on the first day.
 
Superbrad said:
There is undeniably a debate over using antler characteristics to determine genetics.... that being said, the antler technique has been proven time and time again on game farms and preserves...

I have never heard of a large dominant male buck that has no interest in does.... if he didn't then he wouldn't participate in the rutting behaviour and he wouldn't be the dominant buck...

I choose to do both... I have feed plots and cameras set around my property... I feed and scout all year long and I practice selective harvesting...
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dominant animals are not necessarily the largest.
 
bearkilr said:
You seem to think that by meat hunting you are somehow doing a "favor" to the animal? Newsflash, the end result is the same and the prey cares little how it arrives at that fate.

In an earlier post, you mention how you'd rather see an old moose bull or grizzly die a natural death, then you pose with a picture of a young bull who has his whole life ahead of him. Am I missing something?

Now you live in Ft. Mac and have never hunted in AB, yet I doubt you're a vegetarian. You feel good about eating meat which comes from slaughter plants who's sole purpose of existence is killing and feeding the decadent and hypocritical carnivores of society which have become detached from nature and reality. Do you fall into this category?
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We shot a young moose cause we needed the moose meat, and dont have the money or time to travel all over the Country to get a prized Trophy moose that some people covent. This moose tasted really good. There are not very many if any big rack moose in NL, bulls seem to be hard enough to find these days at least in my area. All the large seasoned moose probably got killed off due to outfits that bring in those Trophy hunters from the US and elsewhere. I dunno.
 
Ardent said:
I'm not "claiming", I'm stating, as I do sit at home and write checks to conservation, towards animals my hunting can no longer feasibly support, like the Black Rhino. My Cape Buffalo hunt dropped more money into African conservation in two weeks than fifty monthly World Wildlife Fund donors do over a year. There honestly isn't a better way for me to donate to the future and health of African big game than to explore my passion and hunt, and conservation is at the forefront of my concerns about where my money goes and how it is used. Hunters (and the trophy sort features heavily here) have been the largest shared-goal conservationist force on earth for a long time now. To suggest we're somehow greedily simply collecting heads and a convenient side effect of it is that wildlife benefits, is misleading. So you're right partly, but I'm not a fan of the tone. ;)

GunGuy34, you're an amusing sort of fellow, bandwagon'ing on with anyone against trophy hunting even if they likely wouldn't agree with your rash and uninformed opinions overall. You certainly didn't hit a nerve, you actually had me sighing and shaking my head at the screen, as on my monitor I'm reading the textbook opinions of an uninformed anti. It's simply sad, not angering.
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Its not about conservation, or meat or anything else you like to paint it. You like to kill s**t, thats it. You have a primal desire and get a kick out of whiping a seasoned powerful animal off the face of the planet, as your buddy said in other post in a different thread. People talking about killing blue whales and siberian Tigers if it were legal.

However, what you do is all legal and as long as your not hurting anybody, enjoy your hobbie. I just think your hiding behind fluffy talk about conservation and helping communities. Just be honest and admit that you like to kill and thats the main reason you do all these things. If your so proud of it you shouldn't have a problem admitting it.
 
GunGuy34 said:
We shot a young moose cause we needed the moose meat, and dont have the money or time to travel all over the Country to get a prized Trophy moose that some people covent. This moose tasted really good. There are not very many if any big rack moose in NL, bulls seem to be hard enough to find these days at least in my area. All the large seasoned moose probably got killed off due to outfits that bring in those Trophy hunters from the US and elsewhere. I dunno.
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sounds like a tinge of envy.
 
This is the mind of a Trophy hunter.... the op in fact...

"OK guys, let's say you got terminal cancer, (God forbid) what one animal would you like to go out knowing you outsmarted. The one animal that you could fade off into oblivion saying I'm happy, 'cause I always wanted one of those SOB's.
Money no object, someone else is payng the tab, 28 day hunt if necessary.
F...k CITIES I, F....k Illegal, what would you wish for, for your final triumph, if someone else was paying. "


Now i doubt many of us regular hunters, even if it were legal, would go indiscriminately kill something that we had no intention of eating. In that same thread guys were talking about killing blue whales and Siberian tigers. That is not about hunting for food or anything else, its about getting off on killing, killing something that is more powerful then you.
 
GunGuy34 said:
This is the mind of a Trophy hunter.... the op in fact...

"OK guys, let's say you got terminal cancer, (God forbid) what one animal would you like to go out knowing you outsmarted. The one animal that you could fade off into oblivion saying I'm happy, 'cause I always wanted one of those SOB's.
Money no object, someone else is payng the tab, 28 day hunt if necessary.
F...k CITIES I, F....k Illegal, what would you wish for, for your final triumph, if someone else was paying. "


Now i doubt many of us regular hunters, even if it were legal, would go indiscriminately kill something that we had no intention of eating. In that same thread guys were talking about killing blue whales and Siberian tigers. That is not about hunting for food or anything else, its about getting off on killing, killing something that is more powerful then you.
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you know, i don't think that post is damning of anything. there are animals that are outside most people's financial reach. there are animals that politics plain and simple keep off the game list, and of course there are animals and areas that used to be hunted but are now gone for various reasons.
 
GunGuy34 said:
We shot a young moose cause we needed the moose meat, and dont have the money or time to travel all over the Country to get a prized Trophy moose that some people covent. This moose tasted really good. There are not very many if any big rack moose in NL, bulls seem to be hard enough to find these days at least in my area. All the large seasoned moose probably got killed off due to outfits that bring in those Trophy hunters from the US and elsewhere. I dunno.
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GunGuy34 said:
nope, we wouldnt shoot a seasoned bull unless it was the end of the season and that was all that was available, the younger bulls tasted much better and are not as tuff.
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You realize these two comments are contradictory, right? You say you shot a young moose this year because you didn't have the time to wait for something bigger but you would pass on a large bull and wait all season to take a smaller bull. Not trying to be a #### but just bringing up a contradiction.
 
Zanelike said:
You realize these two comments are contradictory, right? You say you shot a young moose this year because you didn't have the time to wait for something bigger but you would pass on a large bull and wait all season to take a smaller bull. Not trying to be a #### but just bringing up a contradiction.
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Ok well i should have added that even if we had the time and money, we still wouldnt travel all over the Province looking for a prized bull. The tag says bull only, so the first bull we seen got it.
 
GunGuy34 said:
All these things your preaching about are not why you hunt at all, you can say those things and they may be true. However, you are not being honest. You just like to kill period, you love the feeling of taking some old majestic creature down and out of existence.

Ill quote you from another thread

"OK guys, let's say you got terminal cancer, (God forbid) what one animal would you like to go out knowing you outsmarted. The one animal that you could fade off into oblivion saying I'm happy, 'cause I always wanted one of those SOB's.
Money no object, someone else is payng the tab, 28 day hunt if necessary.
F...k CITIES I, F....k Illegal, what would you wish for, for your final triumph, if someone else was paying. "

That thread sir, is a totally different topic of fantasy and frivolity and for you to introduce it into this thread shows your inability to support your opinion rationaly.


I pity you, you will never see the sights I've seen. The sunrise and set on the African highvelt, the thousands of Marco Polo sheep wintering in the Russian Pamirs, Victoria falls after the rains, two Sable bulls down on their knees doing battle, the wild camels bedded with the sand and snow almost covering them in the 60 knt winds in the Mongolian highlands, the 45" Ibex billy skylined at 18000 ft at sunset in Tajikistan, six tons of bull elephant laying flat out in the sand of Botswana sound asleep and snoring, the bluff charge of a lioness protecting her cubs, the charge of a cow elephant at 20 mtrs, the thousands of zebra seemingly appearing out of the dust at sunset in Botswana to water.....................
The Museum of natural history in Bulawayo, the zoo in Jo'berg, the Sultans Palace in Istanbul, Lenins monument in Bishkek, the largest Budda in the world in Uulaan Baatar, the Great wall of China, the lights of Seoul, the current riff where the Atlantic and Indian oceans meet off Capetown, the famous Table mountain in Capetown, the pyramids at Giza, Vatican City with Michaelangelo's statues (absolutely breath taking), the Cistene chapel, the Colliseum in Rome, the Museum of antiquities in Cairo. And endless other experiences that I've had while travelling and hunting.

The hunt..............$50,000.00..........The experience and cultures and sights.........PRICELESS !!!

So don't tell me to admit all I go for is the kill!!! There is soooooo much more to a hunt than just the kill, if you want there to be. Quite the contrary sir, it is you who are there stricly for the kill, for meat.
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