Trophy Hunting vs Meat/Subsistence Hunting

[USP]

I would like to go to Africa and shoot a Leopard. I want to do it because its there and if I have the money I could do it. Is it because I am a mean person who wants to shoot some cat that was just sitting there. Maybe, I wont try and justify it, I would just rather do it.

Justification is just the slippery slope to outlawing activities.

 

[Ardent]

Its not about conservation, or meat or anything else you like to paint it. You like to kill s**t, thats it. You have a primal desire and get a kick out of whiping a seasoned powerful animal off the face of the planet, as your buddy said in other post in a different thread. People talking about killing blue whales and siberian Tigers if it were legal.

However, what you do is all legal and as long as your not hurting anybody, enjoy your hobbie. I just think your hiding behind fluffy talk about conservation and helping communities. Just be honest and admit that you like to kill and thats the main reason you do all these things. If your so proud of it you shouldn't have a problem admitting it.

I spent a good deal of my young life chasing my passion of conservation, as far away as the Amazon. How about you? What have you done and contributed, I'd like to hear, as right now the guys you're denegrating are doing more than your ideals are for conservation by a million miles. That's not even getting into the fact your ideals are twisted and neither objective nor well placed. You're straight up ignorantly insulting those of us who trophy hunt, so I'd like to know your credentials in conservation. You volunteer? Donate? Have a degree in conservation or a phd in biology? How much time have you spent in trophy hunting areas of Africa to form this opinion?

You quite clearly are fully against trophy hunting, of any sort, and would stop it if able. How would you plan to protect the billions of acres of Africa trophy hunting protects (this is absolute fact, and many of the areas are government prescribed hunting conservancies off limits to commercial development like mining, ranching, logging, oil & gas and so forth), or compensate the thousands upon thousands it employs while preserving the natural environment and its species? How many industries do you know of that actively aim to ensure the health of the populations of wild animals and their habitat, and generate millions from literally just nature? No logs cut, no mines opened, no eradicating wildlands for crops and yet sensational economic benefit off what already exists. Namibia makes as much as 10% or more of the entire country's GDP off hunting, how would you replace that? Tourism won't do it.

Yes, now you've offended and insulted me, striking that nerve you mentioned. You called me a killing junkie because it's what you want me to be. I'm not, and I'm happy to compare credentials and records of what we've each done for conservation if you think it will bolster your case. I'm betting it won't.

PS, you saving Moose habitat with whatever it is you do in Fort Mac? I work around oil & gas myself, but I just can't stand a bigot and wouldn't mind hearing how you're benefiting conservation where you are, as you speak quite strongly on the subject. The company I fly for flew last year's Moose population survey around Fort Mac, the results weren't good.

 

[Otokiak]

WOw this went from not too shabby a thread to some DIICKwad spewing his sheit.

Otokiak
Rankin inlet, NU
CANADA

p.s. I gotta remember that CGN is a village after all ...

 

[GunGuy34]

I spent a good deal of my young life chasing my passion of conservation, as far away as the Amazon. How about you? What have you done and contributed, I'd like to hear, as right now the guys you're denegrating are doing more than your ideals are for conservation by a million miles. That's not even getting into the fact your ideals are twisted and neither objective nor well placed. You're straight up ignorantly insulting those of us who trophy hunt, so I'd like to know your credentials in conservation. You volunteer? Donate? Have a degree in conservation or a phd in biology? How much time have you spent in trophy hunting areas of Africa to form this opinion?

You quite clearly are fully against trophy hunting, of any sort, and would stop it if able. How would you plan to protect the billions of acres of Africa trophy hunting protects (this is absolute fact, and many of the areas are government prescribed hunting conservancies off limits to commercial development like mining, ranching, logging, oil & gas and so forth), or compensate the thousands upon thousands it employs while preserving the natural environment and its species? How many industries do you know of that actively aim to ensure the health of the populations of wild animals and their habitat, and generate millions from literally just nature? No logs cut, no mines opened, no eradicating wildlands for crops and yet sensational economic benefit off what already exists. Namibia makes as much as 10% or more of the entire country's GDP off hunting, how would you replace that? Tourism won't do it.

Yes, now you've offended and insulted me, striking that nerve you mentioned. You called me a killing junkie because it's what you want me to be. I'm not, and I'm happy to compare credentials and records of what we've each done for conservation if you think it will bolster your case. I'm betting it won't.

I love hunting, and even more than that I love wild, untouched places. I spent two years travelling looking for the last untouched corners of wilderness, which took me as far as the central Amazon, with no hunting of any sort. I also absolutely love hunting and it goes hand in hand with my passion to explore and experience the last real wilds on the planet. You've apparently hunted, a little, and I'm shocked and dismayed you can't fathom this and simply call me a killing junkie. I also meat hunt and took a doe just last year for my family. The difference between us is I see that any well managed hunting is a good thing. I you donate, it seems it is quite clearly to PETA or another group out of touch with reality. For a few, the uncomfortable reality is that well managed trophy hunting is a very good and beneficial thing, it seems you're one of those few. Pity.

Dude enjoy ur hobbie, I hope ur happy and have a great life. Don't worry about what I think, my opinions are based on how I was raised. I don't need a phd to have an opinion. You asked for opinions and I gave mine, u don't like it, tuff cookies. I don't support peta lol. Think what u want, make all the excuses u want but end the end ur passion is for killing to satisfy a primal instinct. Not sure why that's so hard for u to admit. Anyhow I'm done with this thread, its been derailed so to speak, let it be filled with opinions that u agree with.

 

[bearkilr]

We shot a young moose cause we needed the moose meat, and dont have the money or time to travel all over the Country to get a prized Trophy moose that some people covent. This moose tasted really good. There are not very many if any big rack moose in NL, bulls seem to be hard enough to find these days at least in my area. All the large seasoned moose probably got killed off due to outfits that bring in those Trophy hunters from the US and elsewhere. I dunno.

If you really needed the meat, perhaps you should take up hunting while in Alberta.
Nfld isn't really a popular destination for trophy moose hunters, since, as you mentioned, the bulls are relatively small.

 

[c-fbmi]

WOw this went from not too shabby a thread to some DIICKwad spewing his sheit.

Otokiak
Rankin inlet, NU
CANADA

p.s. I gotta remember that CGN is a village after all ...

Pray tell, to which DICKwad do you refer, Otokiak?

 

[Ardent]

Dude enjoy ur hobbie, I hope ur happy and have a great life. Don't worry about what I think, my opinions are based on how I was raised. I don't need a phd to have an opinion. You asked for opinions and I gave mine, u don't like it, tuff cookies. I don't support peta lol. Think what u want, make all the excuses u want but end the end ur passion is for killing to satisfy a primal instinct. Not sure why that's so hard for u to admit. Anyhow I'm done with this thread, its been derailed so to speak, let it be filled with opinions that u agree with.

You quite apparently will just never understand, I'm sorry you were raised with limited understandings of hunting. Might we suggest another forum on this website will likely be a better use of your time. Glad you caught my full post, pre-edit, decided I wasn't likely speaking with somebody willing to listen and consider and apparently I was right. Wasting breath, unfortunately.

 

[USP]

Guys as I am posting in this thread, I wont be moderating it. But before I get somebody who will can you knock off the personal attacks.

Can we not discuss hunting styles without resorting to cheap attacks?

 

[MiG25]

if it's brown, it's down.

 

[horshur]

I submit a passage

'Meditations on Hunting' - by José Ortega y Gasset, 1972.


One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted.

If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it. What he is after is having to win it, to conquer the surly brute through his own effort and skill with all the extras that this carries with it: the immersion in the countryside, the healthfulness of the exercise, the distraction from his job.

In all of this, the moral problem of hunting has not been resolved. We have not reached ethical perfection in hunting. One never achieves perfection in anything, and perhaps it exists precisely so that one can never achieve it. Its purpose is to orient our conduct and to allow us to measure the progress accomplished. In this sense, the advancement achieved in the ethics of hunting is undeniable. Therefore it is necessary to oppose photographic hunting, which is not progress but rather a digression and a prudery of hideous moral style.

Every authentic refinement must leave intact the authenticity of the hunt, its essential structure, which is a matter of a confrontation between two unequal species. The real care that man must exercise is not in pretending to make the beast equal to him, because that is a stupid utopian, beatific farce, but rather in avoiding more and more the excess of his superiority. Hunting is the free play of an inferior species in the face of a superior species. That is where one must make some refinement. Man must give the animal a "handicap," in order to place him as close as possible to his own level. The essence of sportive hunting is not raising the animal to the level of man, but something much more spiritual than that: a conscious and almost religious humbling of man which limits his superiority and lowers him toward the animal.

I have said "religious," and the word does not seem excessive to me. A fascinating mystery of nature is manifested in the universal fact of hunting: the inexorable hierarchy among living beings. Every animal is in a relationship of superiority or inferiority with regard to every other. Strict equality is exceedingly improbable and anomalous.

Life is a terrible conflict, a grandiose and atrocious confluence. Hunting submerges man deliberately in that formidable mystery and therefore contains something of religious rite and emotion in which homage is paid to what is divine, transcendent, in the laws of nature.

'Meditations on Hunting' - José Ortega y Gasset, published post-mortem in 1972.

 

[Rocket Surgery]

One thing I think a lot of you are missing is the fact that hunting is a social sport. Sure you get a sense of satisfaction over taking a big animal. It's also therapeutic to be in the woods. The guns and trucks and quads are an added bonus. The killing part has its place, it's thrilling, but you'd have to be a sick individual to be in it just for the death. There's a good sense of accomplishment if you walk around in the rain for 5 hours and eventually your dedication pays off because you bag a grouse. The fact that you could have purchased the meat at the store for less than the price of gas and ammo shows that some people are just in it for the sport.

Hunting can be cultural, or even family time with your kids or spouse. Make it a reason to spend time with your son every November or just make it a vacation.

It's an age old tradition, don't let the antis tell you otherwise. None of us would be here today without hunting. It's not cruel if done right.

I find most people who share this love of hunting were taught by someone when they were young. I've never really met anyone who up and decided that they would buy a gun and start hunting unless they come from another country.

 

[c-fbmi]

I submit a passage

'Meditations on Hunting' - by José Ortega y Gasset, 1972.


One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted.

If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it. What he is after is having to win it, to conquer the surly brute through his own effort and skill with all the extras that this carries with it: the immersion in the countryside, the healthfulness of the exercise, the distraction from his job.

In all of this, the moral problem of hunting has not been resolved. We have not reached ethical perfection in hunting. One never achieves perfection in anything, and perhaps it exists precisely so that one can never achieve it. Its purpose is to orient our conduct and to allow us to measure the progress accomplished. In this sense, the advancement achieved in the ethics of hunting is undeniable. Therefore it is necessary to oppose photographic hunting, which is not progress but rather a digression and a prudery of hideous moral style.

Every authentic refinement must leave intact the authenticity of the hunt, its essential structure, which is a matter of a confrontation between two unequal species. The real care that man must exercise is not in pretending to make the beast equal to him, because that is a stupid utopian, beatific farce, but rather in avoiding more and more the excess of his superiority. Hunting is the free play of an inferior species in the face of a superior species. That is where one must make some refinement. Man must give the animal a "handicap," in order to place him as close as possible to his own level. The essence of sportive hunting is not raising the animal to the level of man, but something much more spiritual than that: a conscious and almost religious humbling of man which limits his superiority and lowers him toward the animal.

I have said "religious," and the word does not seem excessive to me. A fascinating mystery of nature is manifested in the universal fact of hunting: the inexorable hierarchy among living beings. Every animal is in a relationship of superiority or inferiority with regard to every other. Strict equality is exceedingly improbable and anomalous.

Life is a terrible conflict, a grandiose and atrocious confluence. Hunting submerges man deliberately in that formidable mystery and therefore contains something of religious rite and emotion in which homage is paid to what is divine, transcendent, in the laws of nature.

'Meditations on Hunting' - José Ortega y Gasset, published post-mortem in 1972.

OUTSTANDING !!! I wish I had this gentleman's way with words!!

USP....agreed personal denegration is uncalled for, let's keep this a civilized debate on motivation for hunting.

 

[GunGuy34]

All these things your preaching about are not why you hunt at all, you can say those things and they may be true. However, you are not being honest. You just like to kill period, you love the feeling of taking some old majestic creature down and out of existence.

Ill quote you from another thread

"OK guys, let's say you got terminal cancer, (God forbid) what one animal would you like to go out knowing you outsmarted. The one animal that you could fade off into oblivion saying I'm happy, 'cause I always wanted one of those SOB's.
Money no object, someone else is payng the tab, 28 day hunt if necessary.
F...k CITIES I, F....k Illegal, what would you wish for, for your final triumph, if someone else was paying. "

That thread sir, is a totally different topic of fantasy and frivolity and for you to introduce it into this thread shows your inability to support your opinion rationaly.


I pity you, you will never see the sights I've seen. The sunrise and set on the African highvelt, the thousands of Marco Polo sheep wintering in the Russian Pamirs, Victoria falls after the rains, two Sable bulls down on their knees doing battle, the wild camels bedded with the sand and snow almost covering them in the 60 knt winds in the Mongolian highlands, the 45" Ibex billy skylined at 18000 ft at sunset in Tajikistan, six tons of bull elephant laying flat out in the sand of Botswana sound asleep and snoring, the bluff charge of a lioness protecting her cubs, the charge of a cow elephant at 20 mtrs, the thousands of zebra seemingly appearing out of the dust at sunset in Botswana to water.....................
The Museum of natural history in Bulawayo, the zoo in Jo'berg, the Sultans Palace in Istanbul, Lenins monument in Bishkek, the largest Budda in the world in Uulaan Baatar, the Great wall of China, the lights of Seoul, the current riff where the Atlantic and Indian oceans meet off Capetown, the famous Table mountain in Capetown, the pyramids at Giza, Vatican City with Michaelangelo's statues (absolutely breath taking), the Cistene chapel, the Colliseum in Rome, the Museum of antiquities in Cairo. And endless other experiences that I've had while travelling and hunting.

The hunt..............$50,000.00..........The experience and cultures and sights.........PRICELESS !!!

So don't tell me to admit all I go for is the kill!!! There is soooooo much more to a hunt than just the kill, if you want there to be. Quite the contrary sir, it is you who are there stricly for the kill, for meat.

Ok so next time shoot a camera and post some pics lol. As well, this forum is about a lot more then hunting, so why would i leave. I like hunting anyhow.

 

[c-fbmi]

Ok so next time shoot a camera and post some pics lol.

This is going nowhere, any reference to cameras on a hunting thread should only be to take pics of your trophy AFTER it has been harvested and share them with the rest of us right here.

I have serious moral issues with photographic "safaris", but they have no relavence to this thread.

I will no longer be responding to your posts, but thanks for your input and insights into YOUR concept of hunting.

Douglas

 

[Big Game]

I seriously hope that no real anti hunters or organizations, happen to be browsing through this thread! Nothing warms the cockles of some PETA tard more than listening to a bunch of hunters bashing each other. This thread should have been locked a long time ago. As hunters who really cares what, when or where you hunt. Does the type of equipment we use make us less a hunter? We hunt,we kill(sometimes) therefore we are all hunters. Squabbling over who's morally superior only helps out the anti's!!!!!!They don't need any help from us.

 

[Ardent]

This thread has actually improved in these last handful of posts. gunboy43's primary gripe and accusation, which he pushed vehemently, was that anyone who trophy hunts needs to 'confess' they're only in it to kill. As some of the last few really good posts illustrate, this is complete, and utter, bullsh!tl; the plain joy of being afield, especially anywhere you personally find interesting, is the number one reason for hunting for almost all of us.

I hunt for adventure, not to kill. I enjoy the moment of the shot, certainly, it is the apex, climax, and ultimate culmination of my hunt and I savour success for what it is. And that's a beautiful thing, not something to be ashamed of. However my joy comes in no way at the shot, it comes from spending a week or more of getting filthy trying to sneak up on your belly and repeatedly being winded or otherwise busted, then the nights in camp with a good beverage (tea in tent camp in Canada, beer overseas) and a warm fire. I usually hunt with my brother, both in Canada and overseas, and I enjoy the hunt times more than anything as we go right back to being kids at heart with no worries but the present there in the field. If that happens to be in Africa, as it was again very fortunately late 2011, all the better. I myself pity those that can't understand this and see me only as a killing junkie, I often couldn't care less if I don't kill, I simply love to hunt.

 

[hawk-i]

This thread has actually improved in these last handful of posts. gunboy43's primary gripe and accusation, which he pushed vehemently, was that anyone who trophy hunts needs to 'confess' they're only in it to kill. As some of the last few really good posts illustrate, this is complete, and utter, bullsh!tl; the plain joy of being afield, especially anywhere you personally find interesting, is the number one reason for hunting for almost all of us.

I hunt for adventure, not to kill. I enjoy the moment of the shot, certainly, it is the apex, climax, and ultimate culmination of my hunt and I savour success for what it is. And that's a beautiful thing, not something to be ashamed of. However my joy comes in no way at the shot, it comes from spending a week or more of getting filthy trying to sneak up on your belly and repeatedly being winded or otherwise busted, then the nights in camp with a good beverage (tea in tent camp in Canada, beer overseas) and a warm fire. I usually hunt with my brother, both in Canada and overseas, and I enjoy the hunt times more than anything as we go right back to being kids at heart with no worries but the present there in the field. If that happens to be in Africa, as it was again very fortunately late 2011, all the better. I myself pity those that can't understand this and see me only as a killing junkie, I often couldn't care less if I don't kill, I simply love to hunt.

I have to say I agree 100% with what Ardent said here....either for trophy or meat, it's the hunt that makes the memories not the kill.
cheers

 

[bearkilr]

As well, this forum is about a lot more then hunting, so why would i leave.

Ummmm, not really, considering it's the "hunting" forum of CGN.

 

[Superbrad]

This is going nowhere, any reference to cameras on a hunting thread should only be to take pics of your trophy AFTER it has been harvested and share them with the rest of us right here.

I have serious moral issues with photographic "safaris", but they have no relavence to this thread.

I will no longer be responding to your posts, but thanks for your input and insights into YOUR concept of hunting.

Douglas

You are sooo wrong... Trail cameras are great...

 

[USP]

Ok so next time shoot a camera and post some pics lol. As well, this forum is about a lot more then hunting, so why would i leave. I like hunting anyhow.

Without throwing you under the bus (yet ) I would like to add that this forum is not OT and its not the News forum nor the discussion forum. Its the hunting forum. ITs primarily for those that hunt, want to hunt, like hunting..are s**t at hunting or watch hunting on tv...whatever.

Its a hunting forum for discussion of pro hunting topics.

Its not a forum to trash hunting and post what are arguably anti hunting type posts.

We can have that done in other forums such as OT if necessary. Hunting is under alot of pressure from hypocritcial leather wearing burger eating communists.

Hunting should not be under pressure on this forum. This should be a place where people feel they can talk about hunting topics free of ridicule and discussions of ethics and anti hunting type sentiments.

I get that trophy hunting is considered by some on CGN as controversial. Thats fine. How bout have a post about it in OT next time and not on the hunting forum.

If hunters cant go to the hunting forum to escape anti hunting bulls**t, where else is there left to go.

So there you have it.