Used Side by side

Choose one that fits you for your budget. Grouse hunting requires a gun that fits and shoots where you look -- shots are generally taken quickly and do not allow time to play around attempting to get a good picture. Some guns like CZ's for example are commonly stocked high so that you see the whole rib when you shoulder it causing the gun to shoot high -- when looking down the barrel the picture should be flat with only the bead showing.
 
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This would probably make a nice upland gun at a very affordable price and I'm thinkin' the steel duck shot won't hurt it with the cyl. chokes.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=699768


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Ryan, I like the way you think. Lots of good suggestions above and to add I would visit some of the used guns stockists like Ellwood Epps (CGN supporter) and loft several used guns to help substantiate what your intuition tells you. I think you're on the right track already and taking plenty of time pays off with satisfaction, ultimately.

Grouse guns need not be big and baddass, the 2 1/2" chambered classics will puff as many grouse as any others and the companionship from taking such a classic out in the bush is real and measurable.

Look at most German sxs including Suhl and Simson, these used steel grades already capable of withstanding steel-shot in the more open chokes. I personally really love the L C Smiths I have but prefer at least 28" barrels even in the bush, contrary to popular opinion. Any gauge is good but 12 will get you a bit better quality since the sub-gauges are typically more pricey.

Good topic, good questions and good luck!

FM
 
jjohnwm said:
Brno ZP49, definitely. Light, excellent handling, available with either straight or pistol grips, beavertail or splinter forearms. A very classy, classic SxS with a "British" feel to it. They come up on the used market regularly, usually for under $500. And, in case you care...it's an actual sidelock gun. Check around to see what a new sidelock gun from any manufacturer will sell for these days.

Downsides: you should probably use bismuth or other non-toxic shot (i.e. expensive!) rather than steel for waterfowling. Also, they have fixed chokes, and a couple of gunsmiths told me that they would not thread the barrels of the ZP49 for chokes due to the thin walls. The one I had in modified and full chokes worked beautifully for ducks and even a couple of turkeys. My current one was reamed out to improved cyl and modified and is the best upland gun in the world!

The other potential complaint (not really a problem, more a marketing-induced mass delusion) is the 2 3/4-inch chamber. Yes, it hasn't the payload of a 3- or 3 1/2-inch gun...but it is just as capable within its limits as a .308 used for moose instead of a .300mag or .338. Check one out it you get the chance. It sounds like exactly what you are looking for.
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The Brnos are nice old guns and undervalued. The 3 inch chamber thing is a non issue like you said. In my experience you often get better patterns with 2 3/4 inch shells. Plus the fact that 3in mags in a 6.5 lb. gun are decidedly unpleasant and your classic double may be loose in the action in no time.
 
There are so many potentially stellar upland guns, that to pick one (or a few) makers would mean closing the door on many others. My advice would be to keep your eyes open for any and all vintage guns that are for sale, then judge each gun on it's own merits. Almost all makers have produced some excellent guns, and most have produced their share of crap.

Some good names to watch for:

James Purdey & Sons
Holland & Holland
Joseph Manton
WR Pape
W. W. Greener
Claborough
E J Churchill
Atkins Grant & Lang
J P Sauer
Merkel
FAMARS
Fabri
Beretta
BRNO
CZ
Pedro Arrizabalaga
Ugartechea
AyA
Grulla
Lefever
Baker
Ansley H Fox

...and that's just scratching at the surface.

Your best bet is to find what looks like a good gun at a decent price, then bring photos and all the info you can get on the gun to this forum. You might stumble across the find of the century - something you would have missed if we narrow your search with specific makers. Conversely, we might recommend a good make and you might be able to find only beaters currently available by that maker.
 
I agree with straightshooter here - for that kind of money, you can get a very nice shotgun.. But if you want to stick to a lower budget there are still plenty of choices. The Savage I had was too heavy for grouse hunting. Years ago, I bought a sxs Baikal 28 inch barrels. I had the last 2 inches cut off, down to 26" and shortened the LOP a bit. This is a fast swinging gun with wide open chokes and it is deadly on grouse - and even decoying ducks. Most of my shots are < 20 yards. It is NOT pretty, but it sure works!
 
ryan32 said:
So your saying my opinion is objectively wrong. True, the how they feel isn't true in the balance handling sense,what i meant is that i just don't want an O/U. Why spend that money on something i don't want. I'll let you keep all the ugly O/U's and I'll get a nice sxs. Too each their own :)
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You should have kept it at "I'm not interested in an Over/Under." By saying "ugly" you're :stirthepot2:.
 
ryan32 said:
Not interested in an over and under i find them ugly and i don't like how they feel.
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Ugly!?? In what manner?

ironsighter said:
It is a double trigger gun and the front trigger is forward enough that my middle finger sits very close to the back of the trigger guard and gets hammered every time I touch one off. This is a pretty common issue with double-trigger guns, apparently.

I have since learned that a longer LOP and lighter loads can help avoid this, so I am adding a 1" recoil pad and will buy some 1oz "Pure Golds". If that doesn't work out, I might have to consider selling the gun and getting a single trigger model...


I'm learning the hard way. Maybe you won't make the same mistake...
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I'm afraid a longer LOP won't resolve that issue.....you knuckle would still need to be in the vicinity of the trigger guard in order for the trigger finger to reach the front trigger with ease. On the other hand, the increased length may interfere with existing fit, particularly if/when you have bulky clothing during hunting.

Use of lighter loads may not necessarily alleviate the issue either.

The following will help......
http://www.jeffsoutfitters.com/FINGER1000_Finger_Guard.aspx?productid=350&categoryid=73

Gamebore Pure Golds are excellent shells. However, at around $22+tax/box - it may be more cost efficient to use Rem/Win/Federal 1oz game loads or target loads of #6, #7.5 etc that would be somewhere around the range of $9+tax/box ..... I can assure you that the game birds will be quite (albeit unwillingly) acommodating :) should you be able to place the pattern.

Besides, consistent use of loads (such as 1 1/4oz) particularly in older Spanish shotguns will place much strain on the stockhead and increase the potential of forming premature cracks in the wood.
 
LeJuque&Friends said:
You should have kept it at "I'm not interested in an Over/Under." By saying "ugly" you're :stirthepot2:.
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Im not stirring the pot at all. I was simply saying that i dont like how they look, me personally. Im not suggesting that an OU is a worse platform im saying i dont like them. Its a comparitave thing, they are stil guns and i'd rather have an ou then some fine art or something but for me compared to a sxs they look unsightly and mechanical. Again my opinon not saying they are worse at all. How many threads do you see when someone simply says " Im not intrested in X" and then dont give a reason people still seem to suggest x.

anyways thanks for all of the helpful advice guys. Im on the look out for a nice Field grade L.C smith or a Ithaca NID or SKB to handle. :cheers:
 
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