500yd group with my 308
- Thread starter Glock-a-maniac
- Start date
thats my point I think all of us should take some pics
No question it is good to know where your cold bore shot will go. This is all part of the discipline I don't have enough of and have to work on.
I recently loaded all of my brass so I have quite a bit of ammo for this gun. I plan on doing a lot more shooting if the weather stays nice like it has been.
I'd say you were s*&tbaked to fire the extra 2 rounds because you were afraid you'd screw up your good group! lol....Seriously though, great shooting, if I pulled off a group like that I'd have pictures too.
I'm running 44.7 gr of Varget under 175 SMK's in Norma brass with CCI BR primers, leaving the barrel at 2650 fps, 9 MOA of drop at 500 from a 26" bone stock Savage 12 BVSS. Zero pressure signs.
I'm running 44.7 gr of Varget under 175 SMK's in Norma brass with CCI BR primers, leaving the barrel at 2650 fps, 9 MOA of drop at 500 from a 26" bone stock Savage 12 BVSS. Zero pressure signs.
This is from the sister rifle. Everything is the same accept mine is in an aics.
First shot was high. I could explain it away all day long but I pushed through on my shoulder anticipating. I'll take it. Squares are 1 inch, wind was like a constant 6 mph.
I use to use the same load of 46.7 gr of varget, lapua brass, 210m primers, neck sized only. Load was great for accuracy, but to much pressure if it was 20 C, so I backed it down to 45.7 gr of varget and this is what I got.
And I was aiming for the X but had done some 300m shooting before so it wasn't totally cold bore.
First shot was high. I could explain it away all day long but I pushed through on my shoulder anticipating. I'll take it. Squares are 1 inch, wind was like a constant 6 mph.
I use to use the same load of 46.7 gr of varget, lapua brass, 210m primers, neck sized only. Load was great for accuracy, but to much pressure if it was 20 C, so I backed it down to 45.7 gr of varget and this is what I got.
And I was aiming for the X but had done some 300m shooting before so it wasn't totally cold bore.
Gonna start by saying that this isn't meant to diminish or discourage the shooter that printed this group in the first place. Nomatter how you cut it, it's not totally luck when you drop a group like this onto a paper half a kilomter downrange... but here's my weigh in on the group size thing...
There might not be a difference between 3 shot and 5 shot groups. I'm not a statistician, so I can't say. But if this is a true "1/4" MOA gun, then five shots should hold a group just as small as three shots, correct? So just shoot five shot groups and put the argument to rest, for cripes' sakes...
The devilish side of me says that I should mention this one time I fired a single shot with a .308 at over a kilomter. The hole measured roughly .308 in diametre. That makes it .0038 MOA, right????...
I shoot 5-shot groups, I compete with what is essentially 10-shot groups. I hunt with one-shot groups. The thing is about knowing what your gun does and where it does it. I "KNOW" where my rifle hits at 100-200-300, etc. cold and clean, hot and dirty, uphill or down, rain or shine, bright sun or dull overcast. And my knowledge is based on a crapload of groups fired with my gun and a lot of notekeeping.
And I can say with absolute certainty and minimal gloating that my gun is a sub-MOA gun. I say this because in hundreds of five shot groups at 200m it has NEVER fired over a minute of angle for me when keep up my my part of the bargain. Off a bench at 100m and 200m it rarely shoots over a half minute, and I can usually count on 1/3 to 1/2 MOA after I warm it and get into my "groove." But I base my bragging on what the gun ALWAYS does - and not what it did once. It takes a bit of wind at 1000m or inattention and match conditions such as moving targetry to open this up. If I shot benchrest ( I don't) - I would care about 1/4 Minute here or there -- but the simple fact is that in the disciplines I shoot, and in the conditions most people hunt or work - a big fat Minute of angle will stay in the bullseye (or CoM) just as good as a quarter minute. Bad/inexperienced and unprepared shooters with good guns will generally be taken to the bank by good/experienced/prepared shooters on the basis of consistent performance and experience in the wind.
I think a lot of people have perfectly good MOA guns, but sell them as 1/4 MOA guns based on one three-round group they fired on a Tuesday afternoon back in May two years ago, in spite of a thousand other, bigger groups. Consider the "MOA Challenge" that one of the ORA members put up to this forum - go on down to Cedar Springs and take him up on it... Lots of guns, including every one I own can do it.... but who has actually done it, under pressure and on demand? Maybe we gotta focus on how well WE shoot, and as long as our guns are better than THAT, train, learn and improve ourselves. If you have one of those guns that can't shoot as good as you - you live your life competing or hunting in a constant state of wondering if that last miss, or that gut-shot was you making a mess of it, or if the gun let you down. (Don't even get me started on how the Army Elcan POS scope can stick it to you...)
As long as your guns shoot better than you do, you can trust the information they give you on the paper and you can learn how to do it better.. Trick poney to this statement is that the better you get, the more money you will spend on guns and ammo to keep up. That can suck. But kind of fun, too.
To be frank - most out of the box Remington 700s shooting factory "match" or decent handloads will hold a minute or better, and they will go their entire life until throat erosion finally kills them before most shooters "catch up" to them. At that point you gotta figure that if you're better than when you started, you can treat yourself to a new Shilen barrel (from Mysticplayer perhaps) and build yourself a 1/4 MOA gun on the old frame.
Also - not trying to be inflammatory, or to diminish this group fired by the original poster. It's a fine group - and I hope he can and does fire a lot more just like it. It's a good indication that the gun is one of those guns that might be "better than I am."
There might not be a difference between 3 shot and 5 shot groups. I'm not a statistician, so I can't say. But if this is a true "1/4" MOA gun, then five shots should hold a group just as small as three shots, correct? So just shoot five shot groups and put the argument to rest, for cripes' sakes...
The devilish side of me says that I should mention this one time I fired a single shot with a .308 at over a kilomter. The hole measured roughly .308 in diametre. That makes it .0038 MOA, right????...
I shoot 5-shot groups, I compete with what is essentially 10-shot groups. I hunt with one-shot groups. The thing is about knowing what your gun does and where it does it. I "KNOW" where my rifle hits at 100-200-300, etc. cold and clean, hot and dirty, uphill or down, rain or shine, bright sun or dull overcast. And my knowledge is based on a crapload of groups fired with my gun and a lot of notekeeping.
And I can say with absolute certainty and minimal gloating that my gun is a sub-MOA gun. I say this because in hundreds of five shot groups at 200m it has NEVER fired over a minute of angle for me when keep up my my part of the bargain. Off a bench at 100m and 200m it rarely shoots over a half minute, and I can usually count on 1/3 to 1/2 MOA after I warm it and get into my "groove." But I base my bragging on what the gun ALWAYS does - and not what it did once. It takes a bit of wind at 1000m or inattention and match conditions such as moving targetry to open this up. If I shot benchrest ( I don't) - I would care about 1/4 Minute here or there -- but the simple fact is that in the disciplines I shoot, and in the conditions most people hunt or work - a big fat Minute of angle will stay in the bullseye (or CoM) just as good as a quarter minute. Bad/inexperienced and unprepared shooters with good guns will generally be taken to the bank by good/experienced/prepared shooters on the basis of consistent performance and experience in the wind.
I think a lot of people have perfectly good MOA guns, but sell them as 1/4 MOA guns based on one three-round group they fired on a Tuesday afternoon back in May two years ago, in spite of a thousand other, bigger groups. Consider the "MOA Challenge" that one of the ORA members put up to this forum - go on down to Cedar Springs and take him up on it... Lots of guns, including every one I own can do it.... but who has actually done it, under pressure and on demand? Maybe we gotta focus on how well WE shoot, and as long as our guns are better than THAT, train, learn and improve ourselves. If you have one of those guns that can't shoot as good as you - you live your life competing or hunting in a constant state of wondering if that last miss, or that gut-shot was you making a mess of it, or if the gun let you down. (Don't even get me started on how the Army Elcan POS scope can stick it to you...)
As long as your guns shoot better than you do, you can trust the information they give you on the paper and you can learn how to do it better.. Trick poney to this statement is that the better you get, the more money you will spend on guns and ammo to keep up. That can suck. But kind of fun, too.
To be frank - most out of the box Remington 700s shooting factory "match" or decent handloads will hold a minute or better, and they will go their entire life until throat erosion finally kills them before most shooters "catch up" to them. At that point you gotta figure that if you're better than when you started, you can treat yourself to a new Shilen barrel (from Mysticplayer perhaps) and build yourself a 1/4 MOA gun on the old frame.
Also - not trying to be inflammatory, or to diminish this group fired by the original poster. It's a fine group - and I hope he can and does fire a lot more just like it. It's a good indication that the gun is one of those guns that might be "better than I am."
Good reply!!! I agree. I started off my 'precision' shooting with a 700P with a Mk4 scope. I shot that thing to the best of it's ability before selling it and getting this custom built. What I've found is that this gun and the others that were built with it have been proven clones of each other; liking the exact same load development and being able to outshoot pretty much all of the shooters they went to including myself at times. These guns were built as 'tactical' guns as appose to bag riding benchrest guns yet they perform like benchrest guns which still impresses me. I'm hoping the wind calms down a bit more today yet and I'll go out and shoot numerous 3 and 5 shot groups and post them later.
I started off with a 700 Varmint and a Weaver T series fixed 15 on it. Rebarreled after over 6000 rds with a big, heavy (full profile) and long (33") stainless monster from Mr McLennan. It shot better than the other one, but I could really only tell that it did during deliberate matches at long ranges and off the bench up close. (well - I do have a playing card with 6 hits at 600m -- but if you wonder where the other four from the match went, I'd have to be honest and say that the "group" was in the area of 7 inches - nowhere near getting them all on the card...) But that was proof to me that Drivers win races, not cars.
10,000 rounds down the second barrel and that dear old Remington got it's third barrel. I went a lot lighter (a profile they call Palma medium) because I wanted to actually fire this one in sitting, standing and kneeling if it came up in the LE Games (It did 3 years ago and I had to resort to my wife's lighter rifle). Also - even CARRYING the old pipe was tiresome. Anyway - the newest barrel shoots like wildfire, too. It's barely broken in, but has already got me through the LE games with a Grand Agg win. LE Games is not too demanding in terms of distances - but this rifle shoots up a dream back as far as 1000m, too. Very happy.
I also run a 6.5x284 off of a long action. (And it shoots like something out of this world at big distances, so I am quickly losing interest in how good the dinky little 308 shoots any further than 800...) Both of these guns and my wife's practical/precision rig were built on Rem700 action, and feed from magazines. They are both light enough to have hunting and operational "practical-ness" and not merely be "range-Queens." Both have Leup Tactical scopes. One has a twelve year old Tactical LR scopes, since the mk4s hadn't come out yet when that went on. The other a Mk4 because they do exist now, and I like them. But that older Tactical LR sure isn't broke so I'm not going to try to fix it if it costs even a penny. I have a couple other rifles with the older Tactical LR scopes and my wife's rifle has one. We're big fans of the line. I hear people go on about Nightforce and I can't dispute claims they make. I'm sure that you can get better scopes than ours if you drop the money into the problem. All I can say is that our Leups shoot better than we do, and they never fail, and that's all I've ever required of my gear.
10,000 rounds down the second barrel and that dear old Remington got it's third barrel. I went a lot lighter (a profile they call Palma medium) because I wanted to actually fire this one in sitting, standing and kneeling if it came up in the LE Games (It did 3 years ago and I had to resort to my wife's lighter rifle). Also - even CARRYING the old pipe was tiresome. Anyway - the newest barrel shoots like wildfire, too. It's barely broken in, but has already got me through the LE games with a Grand Agg win. LE Games is not too demanding in terms of distances - but this rifle shoots up a dream back as far as 1000m, too. Very happy.
I also run a 6.5x284 off of a long action. (And it shoots like something out of this world at big distances, so I am quickly losing interest in how good the dinky little 308 shoots any further than 800...) Both of these guns and my wife's practical/precision rig were built on Rem700 action, and feed from magazines. They are both light enough to have hunting and operational "practical-ness" and not merely be "range-Queens." Both have Leup Tactical scopes. One has a twelve year old Tactical LR scopes, since the mk4s hadn't come out yet when that went on. The other a Mk4 because they do exist now, and I like them. But that older Tactical LR sure isn't broke so I'm not going to try to fix it if it costs even a penny. I have a couple other rifles with the older Tactical LR scopes and my wife's rifle has one. We're big fans of the line. I hear people go on about Nightforce and I can't dispute claims they make. I'm sure that you can get better scopes than ours if you drop the money into the problem. All I can say is that our Leups shoot better than we do, and they never fail, and that's all I've ever required of my gear.
Good shooting glock
Nice stuff. More than once I've shot 3 shot then as other people have said the human factor sets in.
I know my stuff shoots better than I can. The .260ai that Rick built is awesome. I'm happy with shooting the consistent 3 shot groups but I do through the additional 2 out once in a while.
Give me a buzz sometime. Even though your still in downtown I won't hold it against you! Bahahahaha.
Nice stuff. More than once I've shot 3 shot then as other people have said the human factor sets in.
I know my stuff shoots better than I can. The .260ai that Rick built is awesome. I'm happy with shooting the consistent 3 shot groups but I do through the additional 2 out once in a while.
Give me a buzz sometime. Even though your still in downtown I won't hold it against you! Bahahahaha.
3 shot groups don’t mean all that much - although I’m sure you rifle is a fine one capable of similar in a 5 shot group. Don’t kid yourself by this, as I’ve seen factory Remington 700 SPS Tactical’s with NO mods shoot better groups than this, with military surplus ammo.
Shoot many 5 shot groups and see what comes up
Good luck (and I personally love the 175 SMK)!
In all honesty thats a pretty #### thing to say.
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- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I wouldn't worry about that, if what he claims did happen, it was a fluke and all that counts in shooting is what you can do on demand. Comments like this one only discredits the poster who makes them.
OP, thats nice shooting.
When you come out and make Untrue claim, you tent to get Alot of weird reaction, I am sure this is not the first time, not too long ago, this same person make a claim about how his customer shoot consistedly 3" out to 1076yard away with 338 edge.
Like I said, not the first time!
I'll correct this incorrectness. I posted a pics of a steel plate we shot at while filming with Wild TV one summer. I was using my custom 338 Lapua Mag Ackley Improved and Rick and one or two other guys were there along with the camera crew. The cameras were set up about 75yrds from the steel gongs and we were 1076yds away. It was a great day of shooting and filming. I simply posted a pic of the steel and commented that the 4 shot group was between 3" & 4". Rick also smoked the plate with his 50cal using A-Max rounds and the third shot of his group caved the 3/8" plate in joining the three holes which roughly measured 3"s. I still have a picture of the plate somewhere but I got warned for posting it because of the trolls that came to feed on the claims. These guns definitely shoot and there are countless customers by now that have achieved the same accuracy under ideal conditions. We all know that wind plays with bullets at distance but when the conditions are right, don't waste it fart'n around at just 100yds.
3 shot groups don’t mean all that much - although I’m sure you rifle is a fine one capable of similar in a 5 shot group. Don’t kid yourself by this, as I’ve seen factory Remington 700 SPS Tactical’s with NO mods shoot better groups than this, with military surplus ammo.
Shoot many 5 shot groups and see what comes up
Good luck (and I personally love the 175 SMK)!
Really? Well for me those would be amazing groups at 500m. I guess like they say there is always someone better but from my experience I haven't seen anything better even at 300m.
