Rational choice for a Dangerous Game Rifle

oddione said:
Why do people choose non standard calibers such as .375 ruger and what not? I see many used rifles up for sale that seem perfect safe for that non standard caliber. I figure if I'm only going to have one bear/safari gun, I'd rather it be a standard caliber that I can get anywhere in the world and whose reloading characteristics are widely known. Or am I missing something? I mean I understand that a caliber developed in 1980 would have better ballistics than one that was developed in 1910, but it seems to be a head ache for that extra 400 fps.
Click to expand...

Here is an idea. Buy the fit, feel, caliber that is adequate for Bear/Africa and put a low power scope mounted with Leupold LX base rings etc.

If you want to shoot Godzilla and he charges, and a scope just ain't doin it for you, mash one button/lever and in less than 1 nanosecond you are scopless, ring less and base less.

You can now dispatch charging beast with your existing iron sights.

When you are through with Godzilla put scope back on rifle and close lever/button and you are back to the ZERO you had and now have a scoped rifle again.

It may take 5 seconds to remount it on rifle.
Works great. This is EXACTLY the set up I have on my .375.
I have never shot a Godzilla but I have shot many charging hogs that were gonna snort my shorts or my clients and it worked 100% of the time I had to
dump the scope and go into the stopping gun mode.

You know its kinda like when your all flared real pretty to grease the landing and tower screams in your headset ABORT, GO AROUND whatya do? you just simply go to plan B kick the donk, dump the carb heat and milk the flaps:D
 
Boomer said:
Don't let Gatehouse hear you say the .375 Ruger is nonstandard! As far as he's concerned it is the standard, producing .375 H&H velocities (with light bullts anyway) in a standard length action, resulting in a lighter shorter rifle. Mind you my custom Brno 602 is about the same size and no slower to shoot. There is nothing at all wrong with the .375 H&H, and after 100 years it is still the medium bore all others are compared to.
Click to expand...
The .375 Ruger may be all of that and a bag of chips. But they don't sell it in most Canadian gun shops and they sure as hell don't sell it in Otjiwarongo. The one gun shop there did have .375H&H and .458 Winchester.
 
I'd start with a 375 as the "minimum" while looking for a 416, or maybe a 458 if funds would permit it. 458 would me my personal choice for a Big 5 gun.
 
Right now, I have it down to a .375H&H, .416(which of the .416s is the MOST common?) and .458 win mag.

I am told some browning falling block 45-70s can also take .458. Can anyone confirm this?

To ardent and skypilot: I see you both have .375s, could you elaborate on your respective setups?
 
Just a box stock Ruger RSM, iron sights is the only way I've used it. I grew up shooting irons on the farm, shooting tens of thousands of rounds as such, and competed with iron sights in my teenage years. I actually hunt better with irons than a scope, but it's not the case for most so I can't say irons are the way to go for everyone.

It's simple, but it works. I have a spare .375 H&H RSM I'll likely be selling in a couple weeks, but they don't meet your budget unfortunately. My RSM took down my brother's Gold medal SCI Wildebeest when his .300 Weatherby didn't quite do it quick enough (2nd to last pic), and played back up rifle on the Bison, the only two animals in the picture string it didn't take as the primary (the Bison never required a .375 shot, thankfully). It's a busy rifle, my busiest by far.

Hybrid-1.jpg


4d361d0b.jpg


27df979d.jpg


a8be26cd-1.jpg


47a40376-1.jpg


2ac5e5ac.jpg


DSCF2400.jpg


6be5ce8e-1.jpg


13a7e2bf-1.jpg
 
Here's what I mean when I say Ruger RSM, it's a no longer produced beauty with a true magnum action (.416 Rigby sized). Controlled round feed of course, integral sight rib (the quarter rib holding the express sight is machined directly from the same stock as the barrel, meaning it can't be lathe profiled), Circassian walnut, 3 position wing safety as per all recent Ruger 77's, best floorplate release in the business, and just plain cheap for what it is. They retailed around $2,300 just before they stopped making them. The .375 H&H version (mine is so chambered) is a touch on the weighty- I prefer to say solid, side, as it uses the same barrel contour as the .416's and .458's. It's a Cadillac to shoot and extremely accurate, you are get 4+1 capacity at .375, which while not the biggest in the biz, is good.

f4c2af0f-1.jpg
 
It won't work unless you're talking about rechambering the .45/70 to .458. The web of the .45/70 case is .500" while the web of the .458 just ahead of the belt is .510", and the belt is .530" so a .458 cartridge would not even chamber in a .45/70 rifle. Besides that, there is a length discrepancy of half an inch or so, 2" for the .45/70 and 2.5" for the .458. I don't know if the High Wall is suitable for a conversion to .458, but the Ruger #1 can be had in both .458 Winchester and Lott.
 
No point, you don't want a single shot for dangerous game hunting. Also, it would require heavy extractor mods following rechambering, given the .45-70 is rimmed, and the .458 belted rimless. If you really were set on a .458 single, Ruger No.1 Tropical is the only way to go. I think you're getting way off the path here and I'm a little confused, you asked for a rational choice: that's a well built .375 controlled round feed bolt action, not a custom .458 single with a modified extractor that may not work at the wrong time.
 
Oddione,

The set up you asked about is a stock Browning A bolt stainless stalker left hand .375 H&H with a Burris signature select 2-7 with illuminated safari reticle.

As I said the scope is mounted on Leupold LX base, I believe, and allow you to immediately dump the scope, rings, base and have total unobstructed use of the iron sight.

You can then remount the scope in less than 5 seconds and have a scope again with a good zero.

A single shot IMO has no place as a dangerous game rifle. Especially if you started the fight.
 
what about a ruger #1 chambered in 458 lott ? ( can also use 458 win ammo )

or a ruger #1 in 45-120? ( can also fire 45-70 ammo )

what about a 9.3x62 mauser from tradex ?

you could also buy a used stevens 200 long action cheap and get a prefit barrel in something bigger . get tired of that chambering , swap out the barrel and maybe the bolt head and you are into another chambering .

myself i'd probally take 2 rifles , my husky in 9.3x62 and a short barrel lee enfield in 45-90 with a properly built magazine that holds at least 5 rounds .
 
Nothing wrong with a good mauser action with 9.3x62 stuffed with 300-320 gr for the heavy stuff and 286 at 2350 ft/sec for the longer shots on lighter skin game. It would take you a long way as long as its legal in the country you are going to.

While a single shot in a big bore is do-able - I would not do it unless I was very comfortable with my PH or hunting buddy when I approach a leopard, lion or buff etc.
The way I look at it, I depend on ME, and I cant depend on anyone else to get me out of a jam when things turn messy. I trust they will help and not hinder - but you never know.

There is that video out there with a wounded lep jumping onto the hunter's chest and him (as some rudely state) squealing as it tears him open. The shots are all firing, and that cat gets to the hunter anyways. Lucky he wasnt shot by a companion or guide - which does happen.

Frankly, many, many have tried a variety of calibers for Africa, and they settle on their favorite 375 HH. There is a reason that it is so popular. It just covers so many bases with common ammo and it can be shot easily and acurately - close and far. I was just discussing this with a fellow yesterday who has spend much, much time there and he is picking a 375

Its not a whitetail you are going after.

Even if you are walking through the grass up to your chest amd the thick thorn bushes with the sweat trickling down the crack of your butt and your eyes stinging from sweat and dust - going after say Impala - there is nothing that prevents you from meeting up with a lion or ... who takes a disliking to you. That is why your guide needs to be good and armed well. And I feel you do as well.

Did you say you wanted a left handed? That changes everything...
 
Last edited:
I am right handed.

The reason I asked about the browning high wall in 45-70 being able to shoot .458 win mag is that a friend of mine has one and claims the instruction manual states that .458 win mag can be shot from it. I have a hard time believing this but he is a big time gun buff.. according to him, It's not all the .45-70s that can fire .458, ONLY the browning 1885 high wall.

I agree re the single shot. I plan on a bolt action.

Right now, I'm leaning towards a ruger m77 style rifle in stainless in .375H&H. I feel that rifle would also be adequate for moose hunting and bear defense back home. I am not a big fan of hunting with a scope, I have used cheap'ish scope mounts and rings and had bad experiences before with screws becoming loose and the scope not keeping zero. I know, high quality hardware will help. But still, I've never hunted in anything less than very thick brush and I've always shot with iron sights. I hear some shots are taken at longer distances in africa which is the only reason I'm considering a scope.
 
burnt_servo said:
what about a ruger #1 chambered in 458 lott ? ( can also use 458 win ammo )

or a ruger #1 in 45-120? ( can also fire 45-70 ammo )

what about a 9.3x62 mauser from tradex ?

you could also buy a used stevens 200 long action cheap and get a prefit barrel in something bigger . get tired of that chambering , swap out the barrel and maybe the bolt head and you are into another chambering .

myself i'd probally take 2 rifles , my husky in 9.3x62 and a short barrel lee enfield in 45-90 with a properly built magazine that holds at least 5 rounds .
Click to expand...

I have an old junker sporterized lee enfield. What would be rquired to re-chamber it to 45-90? I could bring it as a backup gun. I hate .303 british anyway. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine cartridge but it offers me nothing different from my .308s. I also have a couple p14 actions laying around. I'm sure Ian Robertson could make me a phenomenal stock for it. Can they big chambered in .375H&H?

The p14 is probably the rifle I've shot the most and I am most familiar with. I am comfortable taking shots at 600m shooting prone with target iron sights. At 900m I can still hit the target but my groups really suck. At 300m It's a breeze. My p14s have been rechambered in .308 with long, 26" bull barrels. If I could have one in .375H&H it would be beyond perfect with the lee enfield in close second.
 
oddione said:
I have an old junker sporterized lee enfield. What would be rquired to re-chamber it to 45-90? I could bring it as a backup gun. I hate .303 british anyway. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine cartridge but it offers me nothing different from my .308s. I also have a couple p14 actions laying around. I'm sure Ian Robertson could make me a phenomenal stock for it. Can they big chambered in .375H&H?

The p14 is probably the rifle I've shot the most and I am most familiar with. I am comfortable taking shots at 600m shooting prone with target iron sights. At 900m I can still hit the target but my groups really suck. At 300m It's a breeze. My p14s have been rechambered in .308 with long, 26" bull barrels. If I could have one in .375H&H it would be beyond perfect with the lee enfield in close second.
Click to expand...


Hi Oddione, this is the same deal as you asked me about the alsakan, the p-14 is a standard length and you can't use it for a magnum length like the H&H it is just to short.

PS I don't think that is Ardent in pictures in the link you posted as that guy lives in northren California. I could be wrong though but my dogs tell me that has never happened before LOL.
 
oddione said:
I have an old junker sporterized lee enfield. What would be rquired to re-chamber it to 45-90? I could bring it as a backup gun. I hate .303 british anyway. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine cartridge but it offers me nothing different from my .308s. I also have a couple p14 actions laying around. I'm sure Ian Robertson could make me a phenomenal stock for it. Can they big chambered in .375H&H?

The p14 is probably the rifle I've shot the most and I am most familiar with. I am comfortable taking shots at 600m shooting prone with target iron sights. At 900m I can still hit the target but my groups really suck. At 300m It's a breeze. My p14s have been rechambered in .308 with long, 26" bull barrels. If I could have one in .375H&H it would be beyond perfect with the lee enfield in close second.
Click to expand...

juanvaldez from north shore barrels was for awhile offering very short barrels ( around 14 inches ) in 45 acp with a barrel nut for headspacing for the lee enfield action .

once i find out how much my tax refund is going to be , i was thinking of contacting him and see if he can do something similar in a .458 barrel , chambered in 45-90 ( 45-90 being the longest possible round for the magazine ) .

putting the barrel on the action is simple ........ the hard part of building a magazine that will function flawlesly with more than 3 rounds in it .


getting back to firing a 458 winchester round in a browing chambered for 45-70 .... that will be impossible . the chambers are different sizes in diameter ......

it is not like the 45-70 to 45-120 family where the case head is the same , and the only difference is the length of the casing . making is possible to safely fire a 45-70 in a 45-120 chamber . ( similar to the 45 schofield , 45 colt 45 casull and 460 s&w family .... all these rounds will safely fire in the 460 s&w chamber )
 
You won't need backup guns, etc, just buy a good gun the first time in my opinion. For the price of one junker build from a milsurp, with a new barrel, and a mediocre $1,000 and under .375 or .458, you could just do it right the first time and buy a Winchester Model 70. The Model 70 Safari is the best value going right now for a plain Jane, get it done Safari rifle. It is commonly available in .375 H&H, .416 Rem, and .458 Win and very affordable (~$1,500 used in very good condition). It will mount a scope better than the cheaper options and builds mentioned, be more reliable, more accurate, and you'll be proud to own it in twenty years still. The CZ550 is the Euro equal to the Model 70 in value in my eyes, and offers a greater magazine capacity. The Ruger RSM offers class on a budget, and hell for strong. These three round out the "rational choices" in my eyes. I think you're over thinking the rifle, it's the easiest choice of your whole trip, the logistics of a buddy hunt in Moz is what I'd be worried about. :) I'd heavily recommend optics unless you're accustomed to long, obscured shots with irons, the situations will be a lot different in Africa than the Canadian bush. Be comfortable out to a minimum of 200 yards off sticks not a rest or bench with whatever sighting setup you choose, for me that's irons. And PRACTICE!! :) Good hunting, let us know your dates when you're heading/booking for. Be very wary of a "free" trophy fee, those kind of things don't come from embassies, that would be game department or conservancy manager business- I've yet to meet a member of either of the latter that would respect a letter from an embassy on their animals. It just doesn't work that way, to me it sounds like a customs agent offering me a free rental car when I arrive on a Florida vacation, "Umm... neat, but how in the hell are you connected to that?"

As for the .458 Mag in the High Wall, you're buddy is pulling your leg or out to lunch.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom