I was in WSS yesterday and picked up some 100gr TSX for my .257AI. Today I Google some load data and find a forum where some of the guys are talking that they usually go one step lighter with the TSX\TTSX to keep the velocity up to guarantee expansion. Should I have gone with the 80gr TTSX? Thanks in advance. Any load suggestions would be welcomed also. It's a 1-10 twist Shilen barrel finished @ 24".
TSX question
- Thread starter KDX
- Start date
That all depends on what range you intend to take the game at. I have used the tsx bullets in my 257 AI and found that they are devistating out to 300 yrds after that they really didn't perform well at all for me. For longer ranges I now use noslers
I use the Nosler ballistic tips 100 gr and the 115 gr another good bullet to try is the Sierra game king 100gr and 117 gr they also seem to perform well at longer ranges. In my rifle the noslers liked to be seated just off the lands and the sierras liked be 40 thou off the lands.
I have used TSX bullets alot and using one size down works very well.
TSX bullets work best driven hard, I always looked at it I could use a lighter bullet to flatten trajectory without paying a price on recoil or penetration rather than having to use a lighter bullet to ensure expansion.
If I am hunting anything larger that a deer or am running more than 3000 fps out of the muzzle they are my first choice.
TSX bullets work best driven hard, I always looked at it I could use a lighter bullet to flatten trajectory without paying a price on recoil or penetration rather than having to use a lighter bullet to ensure expansion.
If I am hunting anything larger that a deer or am running more than 3000 fps out of the muzzle they are my first choice.
thats one way to look at it. Another way is that lighter bullets don't retain energy as well as heavier bullets. In my experiance the barnes bullets need a lot of speed to open them up and expand this why they work very well at closer ranges. Once you start shooting out to longer ranges the speed needed just isn't there and they don't open up at all.
I use the ttsx and the tsx bullets in 270, 7mm, 30, 338, and 375 calibers and maybe some others that I have forgot about. They are absolutely awsome at ranges where velocity is there to ensure expansion. Going to a lighter bullet will not necessarily fix your problem as a lighter bullet slows down sooner than a heavier bullet at extended ranges. I have had very good expansion at further ranges with Hornady Interbonds, and another long range killer is of course the Berger Hunting VLD available in 115gr in the 25 caliber. I used to use nosler ballistic tips in everything I had, very accurate bullet, but I drive my bullets hard, and used to shoot the lighter ones to gain muzzle velocity, but at close ranges, meat damage was extensive. I have switched to more controled expansion bullets to save some meat. The Bergers work excellent, they need to penetrate several inches befor expanding, and when they come unglued, they are devastating to internal organs, often not exiting. I guess what it boils down to is how far away the game is you normally shoot at. If under the 350 to 400 yard range, I am sure the ttsx will work fine.
Energy retention is mostly useful for penetration purposes, since an X bullet retains virtually 100% of it's weight until it exits the other side the lighter bullet works just as well.
From the velocity retention and BC perspective you are right though. I've shot game out to close to 400 yards with TSX bullets and never had anything but great results. My position on them is they aren't necessary on smaller, thinner skinned game line Whitetail and smaller, but then neither is a magnum rifle. I generally hunt deer with a moderate cartridge, last couple of years a 6.5x55 swede, before that a 308 and before that a 260 remington.
In those cartridges, normal bullets perform very well because of the moderate velocities they enjoy making the TSX unnecessary. Now if you jack up the velocity from say 2700 fps to 3100, or you hunt larger thicker skinned game like an elk or moose with those cartridges, your bullet needs to be a bit tougher to hold together...TSX is perfect.
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
OP,
Unless you plan on shooting game beyond 400+ yards with that bullet, you will be just fine.
Unless you plan on shooting game beyond 400+ yards with that bullet, you will be just fine.
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
TSX and TTSX bullets are meant to penetrate really deep. The extra penetration comes at the cost of smaller diameter wound channels. To try to even things out people use a lighter bullet than normal (which still penetrates really deep) and run it as fast as possible, the higher velocity is an attempt to try to gain back a bit of wound diameter the X bullets lack.
On deer I don't believe one needs a premium bullet meant for deeper penetration. Deer are lightly skinned and not all that wide. Before I started reloading I did a simple test. Not scientific by any means but I took a buck I shot with a bow during archery season after I took all the meat off I dragged it to the back of my farm and placed 2x 4l water jugs inside the rib cage and draped the hide back over the carcass and backed up and shot it at 340 yards with my 2506 using 117gr hornady superformance sst. The results were clearly visible. The bullet took out a rib completely disintegrating the first jug and tearing the 2nd wide open and took out 2 ribs on exit and left a 1" hole thru the hide on the far side. I know its not the same as shooting an actual live deer but its as close as I can simulate. Winchester grey box 120gr cxp2 gave similar results but lacked an exit hole. If I ever deer hunt with my 25 ill use 117gr sst's. I haven't tried the tsx yet but may use them for a black bear
This long range, short range dilemma is a tough one to work with.
Most bullets that stay together well at close range are so tough that expansion becomes a problem as range gets out there a way.
Bullets that behave properly at long range tend to be explosive at close range, causing extensive meat damage, and a lack of penetration in many cases.
I love the TTSX bullet for it's accuracy in my rifles, but it's performance becomes iffy as you get way out there.
I have been an avid user of the Nosler Partition for well over 4 decades.
IMHO, it is still hard to beat when it comes to dependability at short & long range without disintegration when you are up close and personal.
Some of the Bonded offerings [Accubond, Interbond, Scirocco II, etc] seem to work well, but I have not shot enough game with them at all ranges to give an educated opinion.
Some hunters are very well served in using the TSX/TTSX bullets, since they will restrict themselves to shots that are close enough to assure dependable expansion.
Some chamberings are unable to start a monometal bullet fast enough to give reliable expansion out much beyond 150 yards.
To me, this is a useless endeavor.
Don't misunderstand my post...I am in favor of the new generation of bullets.
However, I believe they have some R&D to do yet on these designs.
I have developed alternate loads to use once ranges exceed what I feel will give dependable expansion with the monometal offerings.
At this point these are all bonded core or the venerable Partition.
Regards, Eagleye.
Most bullets that stay together well at close range are so tough that expansion becomes a problem as range gets out there a way.
Bullets that behave properly at long range tend to be explosive at close range, causing extensive meat damage, and a lack of penetration in many cases.
I love the TTSX bullet for it's accuracy in my rifles, but it's performance becomes iffy as you get way out there.
I have been an avid user of the Nosler Partition for well over 4 decades.
IMHO, it is still hard to beat when it comes to dependability at short & long range without disintegration when you are up close and personal.
Some of the Bonded offerings [Accubond, Interbond, Scirocco II, etc] seem to work well, but I have not shot enough game with them at all ranges to give an educated opinion.
Some hunters are very well served in using the TSX/TTSX bullets, since they will restrict themselves to shots that are close enough to assure dependable expansion.
Some chamberings are unable to start a monometal bullet fast enough to give reliable expansion out much beyond 150 yards.
To me, this is a useless endeavor.
Don't misunderstand my post...I am in favor of the new generation of bullets.
However, I believe they have some R&D to do yet on these designs.
I have developed alternate loads to use once ranges exceed what I feel will give dependable expansion with the monometal offerings.
At this point these are all bonded core or the venerable Partition.
Regards, Eagleye.
This is a very good post.
I too have "shot range" loads (gmx) and "long range" loads (bergers). Keep your short range bullets loaded and if you have to set up for a long shot you have lots of time to put your long range bullets in. Works for me.
Here is a thread that I started.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685484
It shows what a .257 Barnes 100tsx can do when shot at standard 25-06 velocities(around 2900fps).
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685484
It shows what a .257 Barnes 100tsx can do when shot at standard 25-06 velocities(around 2900fps).
