10.5" vs 14.5" vs 16".... Am I going to notice a difference?

J

Jeff000

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Looking for a AR for three gun. Still learning a lot right now. But the thing I am hung up on right now is barrel length. I understand that the shorter the barrel the louder, and generally less velocity/less accurate.
But really does it matter for 3 gun? Seems with moving around and stuff the shorter barrel would be easier/lighter.

I won't be shooting in the states, and if that changes then I will buy another rifle.

At the range I would probably like to play at 200 yards. Maybe even 300.
But will be using factory ammo for the foreseeable future, so that changes things too.

So does it matter? I like the looks of the shorter barrel, but really just want what will be better.
Looking at NEA rifles, if that matters.


EDIT, While I am asking, can I use a 9mm AR style gun for 3 gun?
 
I just shot both my 16" middy and my 10.5 mk18 last weekend, and at 300m a 55 gr bullet drops 6+ inches more with the 10.5 barrel. I needed to use the 400m hold over on a 300m gong to hit with the 10.5 mk18. While shorties are nice, a good 16" barrel is better for general use.
 
If you're going out to 300m max then I don't think it really matters. Now if you plan on competing in service rifle somewhere down the road, out of the barrel lengths you listed, 16.5 would be the best.

For 3 gun, pick whatever barrel length you like.

Myself, I'd be inclined to go with the 14.5 or 16.5. But that's the beauty of the AR, you can swap uppers easily so if you feel you want a longer or shorter barrel later on.

Whatever route you go, just make sure you buy a #### ton of ammo and practice. :D

http://frontierfirearms.ca/index.ph...erican-eagle-223-55-grain-fmj-860-rounds.html
 
The 10.5" will do 300 yds easily. Optics will be more of a limiting factor than the barrel length.

The service rifle guys are shooting 14.5's to 550 yds routinely.

The 16" is entirely a construct of the US market and their short barreled rifle law. It has no other purpose.

What makes you think that a short barrel is less accurate? Short barrels can actually be more accurate because they are stiffer for a given weight which reduces harmonic vibration.
 
Suputin said:
The 10.5" will do 300 yds easily. Optics will be more of a limiting factor than the barrel length.

The service rifle guys are shooting 14.5's to 550 yds routinely.
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A very small number are, and every now and then one of them wins something. 20" is the norm because it works better. If short barrels were the way to go Keith Cunningham would be running one.
 
Suputin said:
The 10.5" will do 300 yds easily. Optics will be more of a limiting factor than the barrel length.

The service rifle guys are shooting 14.5's to 550 yds routinely.

The 16" is entirely a construct of the US market and their short barreled rifle law. It has no other purpose.

What makes you think that a short barrel is less accurate? Short barrels can actually be more accurate because they are stiffer for a given weight which reduces harmonic vibration.
Click to expand...

X2.

Anything you can do with a 16", you can do with the 14.5". The 14.5" is the M4 standard barrel as well as the C-8. I can't think of two more legit reasons for a 14.5", can you?

One thing however, ....if you like shoot over iron sights like me, the 10.5 with it's very short sight radius, will start to show up at 200 yds. The 14.5 " with standard widht front sight, already covers alot of the 11/59 at 200. A 10.5 would be worse. If you go with optics, except for velocity reduction, causing more drop and drift, it doesn't matter too much. Except for vehicle carry, and PDW use, which is not what us sport shooters are worried about, the 10.5", really doesn't have much place except the shorttie cool factor, which I like as well!

With irons, the original 20" Rifle lenght rocks by the way. With NM front sight, giving you a generous sight radius on a still relatively short barrel, you can shoot accurately out to 400- 500+.
 
RememberTheSomme said:
X2.

Anything you can do with a 16", you can do with the 14.5". The 14.5" is the M4 standard barrel as well as the C-8. I can't think of two more legit reasons for a 14.5", can you?

One thing however, ....if you like shoot over iron sights like me, the 10.5 with it's very short sight radius, will start to show up at 200 yds. The 14.5 " with standard widht front sight, already covers alot of the 11/59 at 200. A 10.5 would be worse. If you go with optics, except for velocity reduction, causing more drop and drift, it doesn't matter too much. Except for vehicle carry, and PDW use, which is not what us sport shooters are worried about, the 10.5", really doesn't have much place except the shorttie cool factor, which I like as well!

With irons, the original 20" Rifle lenght rocks by the way. With NM front sight, giving you a generous sight radius on a still relatively short barrel, you can shoot accurately out to 400- 500+.
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Actually the 10,5 makes alot of sense. Not everyone has access to a full 500y range. 10,5 makes alot of sense to me because it's the optimal for my size and the size of the range. As suputin mentionned, barrel whip is diminshed and it also feels better for me to not point a 18'' mastodont

This guy agrees with me, quoted from Noveske's website:

HOW DO I CHOOSE BARREL LENGTH?
(In my opinion)
Barrel lengths and caliber selection are determined by the following factors: weapon weight, maximum required range, terminal ballistic requirements, ammunition supply, and vehicular or mission-based length maximums. In my opinion, a shooter should try to select the shortest barrel possible to accomplish the given task. Short barrels are very accurate because of their relative rigidity compared to a longer barrel of equal diameter. I don’t subscribe to the school that thinks short barrels burn powder at differing rates; if that were true, the velocities would differ on the longer barrel as well. Also, in most cases, the fastest load out of a short barrel will be the fastest load out of a long barrel. Adding barrel length only increases velocity, which translates to increased range. If you have a barrel length maximum, but require greater terminal ballistics, choosing a larger round may be a good answer. There are too many anecdotes to list here. I like the saying, "Overkill is an oxymoron, there are many levels of wounded, but only one level of dead." Choose what you realistically think you will need, and err on the lighter/smaller side.
—John
Click to expand...
 
Since chances are you'll be shooting paper (at least I hope so) going with a 223 in 14.5 is more then enough.

If you go the 9mm route... well I havent seen many 3 gun matches go even 100 yards, since most 3 gun stuff is usually 'combat distance' and not 'army sniping' distance.

Luke
 
chemo said:
Actually the 10,5 makes alot of sense. Not everyone has access to a full 500y range. 10,5 makes alot of sense to me because it's the optimal for my size and the size of the range. As suputin mentionned, barrel whip is diminshed and it also feels better for me to not point a 18'' mastodont

This guy agrees with me, quoted from Noveske's website:
Click to expand...

I thought the OP may want to try service rifle. The 14.5, while not the ultimate for competition(20"), is a great comprimise for most distances, the 10.5 would be fun and loud on your 50-100 meter ranges, and out to 200 if you can shoot.

On the barrel rigidity versus MOA performance, I wouldn't get too caught up in that story, this is not the precision rifle section. As I stated,... in it's purest form ,meaning shooting over those aperture sights, the relative short sight radius of a 10.5, will make it fall on its face pass 200! With 3X plus optics, no problem. If I had to shoot at a silohuette target at 200 yds, I'd take the irons over a non- mag red dot anyday. Just my opinion of course.
 
My 10.5" bushmaster works great out to 200 - 300 yards. I think the limiting factor is optics for guys trying to shoot longer distances. I could hit steel gongs no problem but couldn't do much grouping with an eotech.

If you plan to do any shooting in the US you need 16" or more. 14.5" compared to 16" is not that much difference with regards to accuracy, the only noticeable difference is barrel weight.

If you get a 14.5"+ look into a middy.
 
Jeff000 said:
-Looking for a AR for three gun.

-I won't be shooting in the states.

- At the range I would probably like to play at 200 yards. Maybe even 300.

- But will be using factory ammo.

- can I use a 9mm AR style gun for 3 gun?
Click to expand...

I personally would go with a 12.5" barrel. Part of the product of that length is the rail or tube floating fore end I would use for that - a 10" rail with a forward grip out near the end fits me well when driving out the rifle and transitioning from target to target.
I think the majority of targets are going to be inside 50m for your chosen game. That length is nice and short and weighted right for that role (IMHO).
If you can, try a few before you purchase.
You can always build a different upper for different games and the shorties have no problems selling to mirror commandos on this forum if you find it is not to your liking.
You could use a 9mm, but you are going to have problems with it cycling likely, the drop past 100m kinda sucks and the power is limp out there too, and the cost is pretty close to .223....not a lot of good reasons to go 9mm.
 
Musky Hunter said:
My 10.5" bushmaster works great out to 200 - 300 yards. I think the limiting factor is optics for guys trying to shoot longer distances. I could hit steel gongs no problem but couldn't do much grouping with an eotech.

If you plan to do any shooting in the US you need 16" or more. 14.5" compared to 16" is not that much difference with regards to accuracy, the only noticeable difference is barrel weight.

If you get a 14.5"+ look into a middy.
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A 14.5" with a permanently attached flash hider will get you into the States also, as they measure OAL and not just the rifled portion of the barrel. That carves 1.5" off of a 16" w/FH.

+100 on the midlength!!!


blake
 
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