Anyone experienced and knowledgeable about these things have any recommendations for grease suitable for handguns specifically autoloaders? I would think something high temperature tolerant would be good; wouldn't want something that is going to loose viscosity or seperate and run out due to head build-up around the barrel I would think. Any advice would be appreciated. Lubriplate 1200 is a very good grease for sliding surfaces but not sure if it would have the heat tolerance.
gun grease
- Thread starter quadotter
- Start date
I run jetlube AP5. It contains moly won't melt won't drip won't burn. Good to minus 18 and cheap about 15 bucks for a 750 ml tube. I've been running the same tube for close to 6 years on 8 plus guns and I haven't used nearly half the tube.
TDC
TDC
Pistolwhiptricks
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I use Lubriplate #105 on my pistols and Castrol Syntec synthetic grease on my AR 15 and CSA.
Yeah, after some searching I found some other helpful threads. Seems people are overlooking the max operating temp aspect. If you're applying lube to areas other than the slide rails, i.e. certain areas of the barrel (where the slide contacts it) you would want a high temp grease. For that, I don't think lubriplate has the temperature range neccessary. A high temp grease designed for sliding surfaces would be desireable I would think; but I'm not a lubricants engineer 
. Thanks for the suggestion of AP5.
. Thanks for the suggestion of AP5.
New Camper
CGN frequent flyer
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- Lurking in the woods near SFRC.
I use hydraulic oil abundantly smothered on moving parts. It is designed to withstand the high temperature encountered in hydraulic systems that do generate lots of heat and flow through rubber hoses... so this is good that it doesn't seem to damage plastic components(grips) and it flows decently in colder (loosely speaking) weather although if you are able to enjoy the range near zero farenheit, this oil probably wouldn't work best on small moving parts, certainly not near a firing pin. It is a decent lubricant as well, otherwise it would be a lousy fluid for hydraulic systems. AND it's not very expensive: Last 20 liter pail I bought was around 40... most recently I bought hy-tran (for tractor differentials/hydraulic as the reservoir in the John Deere is the giant rear axle pot.) and this costs more but still under 70 for the pail. 70/20 equals $3.50 a liter.
I use it on all my guns; pistols, revolvers, rifles etc. with no problems. The rails on my pistols show a little wear in the finish mostly at the front tips(Beretta 92) on the alloy frame and the usual lines on the outside of any autoloader barrel.(said gun doesn't experience this) The only trouble with "clean gun then drown in oil" is that especially in 22LR, the burnt powder and gases spilled into the chamber of the auto-loader does get lodged in the oil.
I use it on all my guns; pistols, revolvers, rifles etc. with no problems. The rails on my pistols show a little wear in the finish mostly at the front tips(Beretta 92) on the alloy frame and the usual lines on the outside of any autoloader barrel.(said gun doesn't experience this) The only trouble with "clean gun then drown in oil" is that especially in 22LR, the burnt powder and gases spilled into the chamber of the auto-loader does get lodged in the oil.
Yep: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=707014&highlight=grease
OP, I use lithium based grease from CT. A tub costs a few $$ and is a lifetime supply. Considering the minimal lubricant requirements for most guns, I think you are over thinking the high temp requirements actually needed.
Mark
I know that, but the lubrication requirements for most guns are extremely minimal. I could clean all the lube off one of my 1911's and run 500 rounds through with no issues and only slightly more wear than with lube. The vast majority of spots only need a slight film of lube to work flawlessly. All extra lube does is attract dirt, gum up with fouling and get sticky in cold weather.
Mark
If you can have the benefit if high heat tolerance in your lube than why not? As for excessive lube I have yet to see a firearm fail due to over lubrication. I've seen many fail due to under lubrication. No lubricant actively attracts anything. Wet surfaces tend to collect debris more than dry ones. That being said a well lubricated surface will aid in keeping debris from collecting on surfaces and/or increasing friction and possibly causing a stoppage. The fact remains that grease is still superior to oil for its ability to remain in place once applied.
TDC
You have to get out more then. Excessive lube does attract grit and grime. Aside from your opinion please provide some evidence that grease is a superior lubricant over oil. TDC sometimes you get confused as to what is fact and what is your opinion. The two are not always the case.
Here is a quote from the owner of the Ruger Forum. He is a retired Gunsmith who practiced his trade for over 40 years.
"Originally Posted by Iowegan
Hey guys ... let's get back to basic mechanics 101. There is no load bearing pressure on a pistol slide ... only a backward and forward motion. The amount of friction between the slide and frame is almost nonexistent. If you don't believe it ... just remove your recoil spring and see how easy the slide moves with no lubrication at all. If the slide had upward, downward, or side pressure then it wouldn't move easily and I could see a reason for lubricant ... but that just isn't the case. For some reason, people tend to think guns are like axle bearings and need grease or oil ... they don't and in fact lubrication is often counterproductive. For blued guns, you do need a very token amount of surface oil to prevent rust .... maybe for stainless guns too if they are subjected to a moist environment .... but you don't need a bunch of oil or grease for lubrication.
You can use any lubricant you want and as much as you want ... your gun, your money, but here's what I recommend. Place a tiny dot of gun oil on each slide rail. Use a clean patch and distribute the oil over the top and bottom rails leaving a very thin film ... dry to the touch. That's all the lubricant you need and your gun will last much longer using this method.
Here's why: With the exception of Desert Eagles, all other pistols are either straight blow back or delayed blow back operated. That means some of the pressure in the barrel is used to thrust the slide or bolt back. Along with the pressure blowing the slide or bolt back, you also get a considerable amount of powder residue that finds its way into every nook and cranny inside the pistol, to include the slide rails. Any surface that is "wet" with oil and especially grease, will attract powder residue. Powder residue is made up of soot, unburned powder flakes, and burned powder. Soot will get the gun dirty but is not abrasive ... not an issue. Burned powder is made up of very abrasive carbon particles and when mixed with oil or grease, it forms a mixture much like lapping compound. Unburned powder flakes are also very abrasive. So, each time the slide it operated, the abrasive sludge wears the rails just as if you applied lapping compound to them. In time, it will take its toll on wear.
Proof: Having been a gunsmith for over 30 years, I got many guns in the shop with excessive wear and with rare exceptions, it was always contributed to excessive oil or grease. Pistols that were basically run "dry" would last forever. My own Series 70 Colt Govt Model has over 60,000 rounds of hardball down the pipe and after 35 years, it is still tighter than many new guns. I did have to replace a barrel after 50k rounds but that was because the rifling got so thin it wouldn't group well. I never used grease at all and only used a tiny drop of oil as mentioned above.
Yes, polymer frame Glocks do have steel inserts in the frame's slide rail. There is a .4" insert on the front and rear (both sides) of the 4 3/4" frame rail. What does that tell you? If the slide rails were prone to wear, don't you think the inserts would be the full length of the 4 3/4" frame rail? When Glocks were first introduced to the US market, potential customers were afraid of the polymer frame so Glock did a grueling torture test with several 9mm Mod 17 guns. Before the test, each frame and slide were measured and documented. Each gun was fired 12,500 rounds without being cleaned or serviced in any way. At the end of the 12.5 k test, all the pistols were field stripped and the barrels, slides, and frames were swapped so no one gun had the origional parts. Another 12,500 rounds were fired in each gun, again with no cleaning or service. At the end of the test, all guns were still working perfect and were measured again. There was no appreciable wear in any of them. What does this tell you? If a Glock with a total slide bearing surface of .8" can pass this extreme test, do you really think lubrication is necessary in a pistol with a full length slide rail?
Polymer frame pistols without steel inserts are indeed "self lubricating". This doesn't mean there's a little hidden oil can squirting on the rails ... it means the dry surface of polymer is slick enough where it acts like it had oil on it. If you oil or grease a polymer frame, likely it will reduce life expectancy just like a steel frame.
Like I said above ... your gun, your money .... hose your pistol down with goose grease for all I care ... but if you want your pistol to last a lifetime or two .... forget the grease and go very sparingly with the oil. That goes for the internal parts as well."
You can find further discussion on the subject here:
http://rugerforum.net/maintenance/44354-iowegan-lube-slide-rails.html
Take Care
Bob
Do explain just what magical property any lubricant has that it actively attracts debris? Is your lube magnetic? I've discussed this topic many times and no one has yet to answer the obvious question. If oil is equal or superior to grease then why does it drip burn or blow off firearms? Grease does none of the above.
TDC
TDC
New Camper
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lurking in the woods near SFRC.
I'm not a gunsmith Bob, so I read your post with interest but on some things I must side with TDC: Oil doesn't attract dirt or abrasive material, it does "capture" dirt that contacts the oil. To attract is to actively "draw" like a magnet attracts opposite poles or iron. I would agree that excess oil is not necessary, and would provide more surfaces for dirt to stick on however wouldn't excess oil spilling out of moving surfaces, act as a shield to absorb and arrest dirt outside of the surfaces? And yes, I would agree that "load bearing" surfaces are not present in the sense of a crankshaft to a tie rod(bearing in between), however a sliding surface like a pistol's slide is comparable to the wall of the cylinder to a piston: Yes the piston is moving thousands of times per minute but is also not "load bearing", it is a moving surface in relation to the cylinder wall, but I have taken apart engines, where insufficient lubricant has resulted in the piston being hopelessly worn, and even the cast cylinder being harder than the aluminum piston also worn. How does this relate to a pistol? My dad has a beautiful S&W semi, that was new in the late '80s and has been shot less than my Beretta: Both are alloy frames and steel slides. Both show wear on the two tips on the front of alloy frame: My Beretta is lubricated and the wear is on the finish, the S&W (stainless steel slide) has not been lubricated and has wear into the alloy. I am not pretending to know more than a qualified gunsmith, I am reporting my observations and opinions on the subject using analogies I view as being comparable and of course my own experience with guns. The quantity of oil, in some cases too much would be undesirable especially in cold: To support your argument, my Ruger mk1 doesn't like lots of lube in cold wet conditions, and cycling becomes a problem. But I cannot agree that any moving surface will not wear fast, lubricated let alone void of lubrication.
I suppose there could be argument on symantics over the issue of "load bearing" because theoretically any movement according to Newton's laws does produce equal and opposite movement: Given the laws of thermodynamics in the world, the friction involved does cause drag against any movements. Primer is struck, powder burns and propells bullet, recoil(opposite movement of bullet) is felt so yes, this does "load" the slide: The recoil thrusts the muzzle up and back. The slide during this recoil is also sliding rearward than forward and this whole process occurs in fractions of a second.
I am quite exhuberant in oiling even my revolver to keep things sliding with as little friction as possible: All my guns aside from the revolver are not stainless, so the oil is intended as well, on the few bare metal spots, to prevent rust... and I might have OCD when it comes to keeping them clean
You're point in bringing up the Glock test seems to be relevant to my experience with wear: Given the four slide points on the frame of the Glock, the wear on all metal pistols, seems to be mostly at the front of the frame rails. I'll have to pay close attention to the 1911, aside from the bowtie on the front of the frame which takes alot of force, I think the rails wear near the front as well.As stated earlier, this is my experience and opinion, but I don't have thirty years being a gunsmith, so don't think I am trying to denigrate you or your experienced opinion, I am curious why there isn't consistancy in experiences on the subject?
All of which is your opinion. It isn't fact TDC just your opinion. Read what the gentleman I quoted posted. Personally, due to personal bias, I tend to over lube my railed guns but I sure don't with my M&P. Just a tiny drop of oil per the manual and I am good to go.
You may think you know more than a gunsmith of 40 years but something tells me you don't.
To answer your question though, no my lube isn't magnetic it is a fluid though and grit and grime does accumulate.
Take Care
Bob
ps I can't prove to you the moon isn't made of green cheese but I do know it isn't.
pps Pour lube in your striker channel in your Glock and see how effective it becomes after a few thousand rounds.
ppps Get a revolver and lube the ejector rod channel and see how quickly your cylinder moves after 300 rds or so.
New Camper I don't recall using the word magnet, that is TDC's word. I agree lube does trap grit and grime and if you read what Iowegan has to say about the subject it would seem to makes sense. The article is a quote not of my writing and I am no gunsmith but the gentleman who wrote the article was and is, well respected. Given a choice I tend to side with a gunsmith of 40 years over a young enthusiast who has a somewhat checkered history.
Take care
Bob
Take care
Bob
