Chrony surprises

trix_17

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I've been reloading for a while but recently thought that without a Chrony I am, at best, guessing about what my loads are actually doing.

Surprise #1: My 38 s&w load which "worked" with some old brass - such that it didn't seize in the cylinder - in new Starline brass metered a meagre 275-350 fps. Pretty lame. Maybe I had more crimp on that older brass. It did feel the same though.

Surprise #2: Loading 7.62x45 Czech for an old vz-52 with a near max 7.62x39 load for IMR 4198 results in only 1850 fps. That was the fourth half-grain increment I tried and would have bet $ it would be over 2000.

So far these have been my surprises related to my handloading caution. A guy at the range asked if he could shoot a few rounds to get numbers on his rifle. I obliged. I even shot some of the rounds myself. Very shortly I was suspecting this fellow had gone pretty wrong - and probably quite dangerously so. He indicated after seeeing some results that he had these loads "maxed out" on varget. 168 gr bullets out of his 308 Winchester were doing 3300-3500 fps. That's about 700 fps or so faster that what I generally expected to see and what max loads in any of the manuals I later consulted indicated as maximum. That rifle and brass is probably taking a beating - and it was not high quality versions of either to begin with. Hopefully he looks up those results and backs-off before he becomes a casualty. While I like shooting other people's guns, I will decline to shoot anyone's reloads in the future. To borrow a line from Arrested Development "That was a freebie" in the sense that I didn't end up with any of his rifle parts lodged in my person.

Non-surprises: 7.62x54 in Mosin M44 is right where I expected around 2400-2500 fps - on a sober dose of Varget. Various 223 loads were also what I expected out of my Browning x-bolt.

The point is that now I know about my own loads and re-learned to be weary of strangers (at the relatively low cost of about $130 and time to read some instructions).
 
Yup, after I bought a chrony I realized my 7mag is just a warm .280. I also gained a lot more respect for my 30-06's after testing some loads, pretty efficient for the amount of powder being used I thought.
 
Yep, the Chronograph tells the truth!
I remember a number of years ago, loading a 7x57 load from the Speer manual that generated 2750 fps in their test rifle, and was a "middle" load.
My 7x57, [A M77 Ruger, tang safety model] shot the load very well indeed.
I shot a couple of black bears and a couple of muleys with it, all were dead quickly and efficiently.
Later, got a broadside shot at an Immature Bull Moose, and put one through his lungs.
The bullet did not exit from about 60 yards, and when I looked at it, I noted that expansion was rather small.
Got a chance to run some of these loads across a chronograph....imagine my surprise to find them loping along at just over 2300 fps.
It took 4 grains more of that powder to reach the velocity listed in the manual with that powder, but it shot just as well, and performed better.
Other readings have shown me the truth about some loads, both higher and lower than advertised velocities.
Be Safe! Eagleye.
 
308 Winchester were doing 3300-3500 fps With Varget and 168gr bullets
NOT POSSIBLE WITHOUT BLOWING A PRIMER OR NOT ABLE TO OPEN BOLT WITHOUT A HAMMER
 
I agree. Even a compressed load of Varget won't even come close. Part of the point though is who knows what they were loaded with. Same set up as all other rifles tested. 7 or 8 consecutive and relatively consistent test shots. I dont have a good explanation.
 
I agree. Even a compressed load of Varget won't even come close. Part of the point though is who knows what they were loaded with. Same set up as all other rifles tested. 7 or 8 consecutive and relatively consistent test shots. I dont have a good explanation.

Maybe he was saying 308 Norma?

There is no possible powder combo that could get that much velocity out of a .308 Win with a 168 without blown primers, and more than likely a blown up gun.
 
It was a Stevens.Pretty sure just a 308. Regardless of whether the fps were correct modern rifles are proofed and designed to take a beating - at least for a little while.That what gun manufacturer's lawyers recommend too!
 
I agree. Even a compressed load of Varget won't even come close. Part of the point though is who knows what they were loaded with. Same set up as all other rifles tested. 7 or 8 consecutive and relatively consistent test shots. I dont have a good explanation.

Perhaps it was a lighting issue and the chrony was "Off". I had a simmilar issue with my last chrony and anything in 45 cal on sunny days.
 
Yes - those velocities should have generated some obvious pressure signs (e.g., stiff bolt lift, ejector marks).

10 ft away from muzzle is pretty standard (closer, and you could be recording the "rifle blast/powder residue). Also, from what I've read, ensuring that the chrony and barrel are level and/or parallel is pretty important (I take a level with me to the range). the online "riflemans' journal" by G. Salazar (sp.) has a pretty good article on using a chronograph.

Link to article - http://riflemansjournal.########.com/2010/04/basics-chronographing-effectively.html
 
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I've been reloading for a while but recently thought that without a Chrony I am, at best, guessing about what my loads are actually doing.

Surprise #1: My 38 s&w load which "worked" with some old brass - such that it didn't seize in the cylinder - in new Starline brass metered a meagre 275-350 fps. Pretty lame. Maybe I had more crimp on that older brass. It did feel the same though.

Surprise #2: Loading 7.62x45 Czech for an old vz-52 with a near max 7.62x39 load for IMR 4198 results in only 1850 fps. That was the fourth half-grain increment I tried and would have bet $ it would be over 2000.

So far these have been my surprises related to my handloading caution. A guy at the range asked if he could shoot a few rounds to get numbers on his rifle. I obliged. I even shot some of the rounds myself. Very shortly I was suspecting this fellow had gone pretty wrong - and probably quite dangerously so. He indicated after seeeing some results that he had these loads "maxed out" on varget. 168 gr bullets out of his 308 Winchester were doing 3300-3500 fps. That's about 700 fps or so faster that what I generally expected to see and what max loads in any of the manuals I later consulted indicated as maximum. That rifle and brass is probably taking a beating - and it was not high quality versions of either to begin with. Hopefully he looks up those results and backs-off before he becomes a casualty. While I like shooting other people's guns, I will decline to shoot anyone's reloads in the future. To borrow a line from Arrested Development "That was a freebie" in the sense that I didn't end up with any of his rifle parts lodged in my person.

Non-surprises: 7.62x54 in Mosin M44 is right where I expected around 2400-2500 fps - on a sober dose of Varget. Various 223 loads were also what I expected out of my Browning x-bolt.

The point is that now I know about my own loads and re-learned to be weary of strangers (at the relatively low cost of about $130 and time to read some instructions).

#1 - You gave no details on the 38 S&W load, and used some odd terms ("seized"?), but with that cartridge, a grain or two can mean several hundred FPS. The surprise to me is that you found a load that but could produce those low velocities. I have not been successful doing that, as I find that when I go below about 400 fps, I have too many bullets not exiting the bore. Maybe your chrony setup that day was giving inaccurate readings, or maybe you found a wonder load (with Bullseye?).

#2 - Shouldn't be a surprise. Using 7.62X39 loads in the larger 7.62X45 will result in lower MV's.

"The 308 with 168's over a full case of Varget doing 3300-3500 fps" - it was either:

- not a 308 Winchester; and/or
- not 168's; and/or
- not Varget; and/or
- not 3300-3500 fps (i.e. your chrony was not accurate).

I will on occassion allow a shooter to use my chrony, but I always begin with the understanding that if he hits it with a bullet, he gives me $100.
 
I started loading Red Dot in the 38S&W (just for everyone's clarity that's not 38 special) following the Speer manual. I think the start load was 2.4gr (I might be misremembering that but whatever the start was I used it). With that load the brass jammed in the cylinder (seized) and I could hardly get it out and everything was very clean. It generally seemed like a very stout load. Didn't have much crimp on the loads but I reduced it even further after that. I figured it was the powder so I reduced it until the brass came out like it should all the time. That was at about 1.7-1.8 gr of red dot with 158gr SWC or RN (I volume measured with a Lee dipper and periodically weighed the charges). I could feel it was a quite a light load but I never had an issue with bullets not coming out the barrel though. Generally didn't get a very clean burn either. It's the only powder I tried in it. I was also happy to go to the light side as I was shooting some of them in an 80 yr old Enfield.
 
I had a chrony suprise yesterday - a load that should have produced about 2750 fps, was showing over 2900+! Turns out the chrony was not laying flat on the tripod, making the two sensors closer than they should have been. Folded it out as it should have been and MV's went to where I had expected them to be.
 
Keep in mind that the chrony is only as good as the set up and consistancy of the operator.

First question I ask, did you use a target, or simply shoot over the beast?

Did you shoot from a rest?
 
I carry a 3m length of string in my chrony box. It' s what I use to measure the chrony from the shooting bench when I use it. Garantees consistency in my set-up distance from the muzzle. Weighs nothing ansd easily balled up and placed in the box.

I don't chase the velocities anymore. As mentioned for me now it's consistency. My standard (plinking / fun / hunting loads) *usually* are within 100-150 fps within published loads. Custom precision loads are not chronied to match any particular published velocity. The FPS is recorded for my own benefit in dveloping a tailored load for that rifle.

YMMV
 
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