Bullets spin in casing (7.62x39)

T

ThreeOneBravo

Regular
Rating - 100%
24   0   0
Location
Ontario
I picked up 50 cartridges of 7.62x39
The person reloading them for me used MY once fired privi and sellier and bellot casings and 123 gr SP bullets (can't remember manufacturer)

Some of the bullets spin in the casings, there is no in and out movement nor can they be pushed in or pulled out. Is it safe to fire these cartirdges from my semi auto CZ-858. I'm nervous about ruining my rifle.

Thanks
 
Last edited:
ThreeOneBravo said:
I picked up 50 cartridges of 7.62x39
The person reloading them for me used MY once fired privi and sellier and bellot casings and 123 gr SP bullets (can't remember manufacturer)

Some of the bullets spin in the casings, there is no in and out movement nor can they be pushed in or pulled out. Is it safe to fire these cartirdges from my semi auto CZ-858. I'm nervous about ruining my rifle.

Thanks
Click to expand...

A. - The person who reloaded them used .308 diameter bullets instead of .311 diameter bullets.

B. - The dies are at fault - they did not squeeze the neck down enough to hold the bullet firmly.

C. - The expander ball used is too large to give a firm grip on the bullet. Some die sets for the 7.62x39 come with both a .311 and a .308 expander ball.

D. - The casings were not necked down at all, merely crimped with the seating die.

Poor reloading practice plus any of the above or a combination of some of the above. Obviously the Reloader did not check the rounds after loading them.

I would be a bit wary of firing them in a semi-automatic rifle FROM THE MAGAZINE as a loose bullet in a case could go forward into the rifling when the bolt slams it into the receiver, and create a higher chamber pressure.

If you need to fire them off, you could load them SINGLY and close the bolt manually by hanging onto the charging handle carefully when you close the action. Make sure that the bolt is fully forward and locked. You might have to hit the charging handle with your hand to fully close the action. This can be done by loading one at a time into the magazine but make sure the case base is on the bolt face and the extractor is in the groove in the casing when you close the bolt.

Otherwise, as long as the powder charges are correct, you should be all right. The safest thing is pull the bullets and salvage them. Get rid of the powder and put the empty casings into the rifle to fire off the primer. Then, they could be loaded properly. I would also measure the bullet diameter with a dial caliper or a micrometer to find out just what you do have.
.


.
 
Last edited:
I spoke with the person over the phone and this is how he explained to me.

The bullets used are Hornady SP .310 diameter. The cases being European (Privi and S&B are .311 diamter. Now I have zero experience reloading but you are saying the cases can be necked down? Does that mean you can decrease the case diameter by 0.001", down to .310? He said that this is a common problem with reloading 7.62x39 because of the variation of European and American standards for bullets, cases and chambers.
 
i know when i reload my 30 cals the bullet will just fall into the case until i deprime and resize them. perhaps your guy is using the wrong die or isnt resizing them and thats why they fit just snug enough to not move in and out but are spinning.
 
buffdog got it right. Case neck tension. Doesnt matter who made the cases they can be necked down or up .308-.311 etc. Even a .30-06 can be necked down to .270.
 
Thanks for all the input. These things will not get fired from my gun. I'm not desperate enough for that. I'll buy a bullet puller, pull them and keep them for when I do start reloading. Buffdog mentioned fire the primers, can't they be reloaded with the primers in?

I guess I'll have to spend the money and reload myself. Reason I went to him is that he is praised by a lot of people in the local area including friends. He said resizing dies come in 308 and 311 and not 310. There's gotta be a 310 die out there if there's companies making 310 bullets.

Anyway thanks for all your answers again.
 
ill have to measure to make sure im not missleading you, but a bullet fits tights into the case so the case will likely have an inner diameter just a bit smaller than the bullets outer diameter.

just checked, my .308 bullet measures exactly that, my die crimps the inner diameter of the case to about .305-.306 right in that range, i dont have any clean brass but thats some that have been recently fired.

not sure what he meant about firing the primer. although i think what hes refering to is to get rid of the primer so that you can crimp the case properly and hes saying to fire off the primer and then crimp them.

you prime, then add powder then the bullet goes in.

i know my de priming die crimps as it pops the primer out
 
uchi said:
i know my de priming die crimps as it pops the primer out
Click to expand...

No, no it doesn't.
As you raise the case into the sizing die, the decapping pin
pops the primer out.

Crimping is the very last step in the process.
The press fit of a bullet going into the neck of the case holds it
in place. Crimping compresses a small part of the mouth even
further, providing a mechanical lock. This is to stop a bullet
retreating into the case under recoil or rough handling.

Sorry to be the terminology police, but in effect you were saying
that he needed to lock the car door before he got in to start
the engine.
 
To the OP, if you found that the bullets are loose in the case mouth,
what else could be wrong with these reloads?
Recover the components for future use, but I would hesitate
to shoot them. If you do shoot them, follow buff-dog's advice
and feed them one at a time.
 
Rory McCanuck said:
No, no it doesn't.
As you raise the case into the sizing die, the decapping pin
pops the primer out.

Crimping is the very last step in the process.
The press fit of a bullet going into the neck of the case holds it
in place. Crimping compresses a small part of the mouth even
further, providing a mechanical lock. This is to stop a bullet
retreating into the case under recoil or rough handling.

Sorry to be the terminology police, but in effect you were saying
that he needed to lock the car door before he got in to start
the engine.
Click to expand...


thanks for correcting my terminology.
i know with my 30 cals that if i try to put the bullet into the case before removing the primer it falls in, but once it goes into that first die it shrinks the neck so that the bullet has to be pressed in. does that make more sense?

are you using a separate die to crimp the bullet? from the reading ive done here you only need to do a separate crimping step with smooth cases like handgun cases.
 
are you using a separate die to crimp the bullet? from the reading ive done here you only need to do a separate crimping step with smooth cases like handgun cases.
Click to expand...
It all depends. With straight wall cases I use either a roll crimp
with the seating die, or I use the Lee Factory Crimp die.
With bottleneck cases, I use a roll crimp, Lee FCD, or nothing.
Neck tension will hold the bullet in ll but extreme cases. I crimp
hunting ammo, just because.

i know with my 30 cals that if i try to put the bullet into the case before removing the primer it falls in, but once it goes into that first die it shrinks the neck so that the bullet has to be pressed in. does that make more sense?
Click to expand...
Yes. The sizing die sizes the brass down, so that it will
easily go into the chamber. It sizes the mouth down a
little bit too small, and then is expanded to size.
With straight walled brass, this is done in a separate die/step.
With bottleneck brass, the expanding is done with the pin that
pushes out the primer.
In an attempt to get this thread back on track, I suspect this is
where the problem is. The expander is probably .310", to give
0.001-2" neck tension with .311-2" bullets, but giving no tension
on a .310" bullet.
 
It appears that the reloader has to deprime the case to size it. That is why he wants you to fire off the primers. That is recommended and safe as compared to depriming live primers. I cannot speak for sure for his dies but he should be able to remove the primer punch to resize the cases. However, a primer only costs a few cents.
 
ThreeOneBravo said:
I spoke with the person over the phone and this is how he explained to me.

The bullets used are Hornady SP .310 diameter. The cases being European (Privi and S&B are .311 diamter. Now I have zero experience reloading but you are saying the cases can be necked down? Does that mean you can decrease the case diameter by 0.001", down to .310? He said that this is a common problem with reloading 7.62x39 because of the variation of European and American standards for bullets, cases and chambers.
Click to expand...
You need a new guy. I have .311 dies that size the necks down to .309" if you remove the expander. He is feeding you a load of crap. I load .310", .311", .312" with the same decapping/expander pin. I tried to use a .313" bullet but it shaves a bit off. Turned/polished a .323" pin down to expand it to .312", now I can load my .313" and 3135".

True story? He used a .311 expander die and .308 bullets. Neck tension will hold them in most times as you seat it and then the roll crimp them will finish the job, holding them in place, but not actually secure to the necks.

Want a quick check? Measure the bullet diameter immediately in front of the cannelure. You will probably end up pulling the bullets, starting over.
 
reg394 said:
It appears that the reloader has to deprime the case to size it. That is why he wants you to fire off the primers. That is recommended and safe as compared to depriming live primers. I cannot speak for sure for his dies but he should be able to remove the primer punch to resize the cases. However, a primer only costs a few cents.
Click to expand...
You do not actually have to de-prime to resize. Just back your jam nut off, run a case up into the die, pull the expander pin out an additional .010" or so to make sure that every case will be clear, tighten teh jam nut, and resize it as normal.
 
It sounds like way too much crimp. I have seen it alot with new reloaders thinking they have to use alot of crimp. It actually swags a ring into the bullet and loosens neck tension so the bullet spins in the case but will not move in or out. Just hold it up and look at it, if its crimped too much you will see the grove swaged into the bullet.

Over crimping along won't make it dangerous to shoot. But I wouldn't trust amateur reloads.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom