you go down your road, and i'll go down mine- all the manuals say you don't NEED to lube your cases-that's good enough for me- there's a school out there that says lube EVERYTHING- and that's the same school that can't get their m14s to run
First Attempt at reloading Pistol - Failed and need Help
- Thread starter Crashediv
- Start date
- Location
- Fort McMurray
Agreed about what the manuals say. But I can tell you that I only started lubing dies recently, having the same thoughts about the carbide dies. Everything just seems to work better with a bit of case lube. Less stress on the dies, less pull on the shell plate. Just seems to make logical sense to me.
and far more chance of CONTAMINATING YOUR POWDER OR PRIMER- no thanks-you're almost NEVER going to wear out a set of carbide dies,( although i do know one guy that did a couple of years back) and if your press is properly lubed,there is no appreciable wear- all you're feeling is the resistance from the brass being resized by the die- a NORMAL reaction
If you're hand loading (not using a progressive), get one of those trays that lets you stand up 50 primed shells. Dispense powder into each, as you've been doing. Then, when you've finished dispensing, cast a glance into all the brass - powder levels should look similar - you'll know if you missed one, or double-charged one. Then seat the bullets.
Working in batches allows those quick little quality control checks.
For my progressive, as I am about to place the bullet on the case, I peek in - for each round I make, I expect to see the same amount of powder.
Life is easier on rifle cases, or on some of the weaker powders, where a double-charge overflows and makes a mess.
Don't give up - the first batches I ever reloaded were small (25-50 rounds each), and I pulled one batch apart because I wasn't confident in it. (get a kinentic puller). Don't fire one unless you're sure you assured the quality of each round in the batch and at each stage of the process. A squib load is a pain - an overload is a very, very different kind of pain.
Working in batches allows those quick little quality control checks.
For my progressive, as I am about to place the bullet on the case, I peek in - for each round I make, I expect to see the same amount of powder.
Life is easier on rifle cases, or on some of the weaker powders, where a double-charge overflows and makes a mess.
Don't give up - the first batches I ever reloaded were small (25-50 rounds each), and I pulled one batch apart because I wasn't confident in it. (get a kinentic puller). Don't fire one unless you're sure you assured the quality of each round in the batch and at each stage of the process. A squib load is a pain - an overload is a very, very different kind of pain.
i add one more step to the progressive- i establish a base line by headstamp for case weight with primer, and then WEIGH EACH FINISHED CASE- your primers will weigh about 3 grains, your bullets pretty close to the advertised weight,( give or take a grain or 2) and since you know what your case should be, the rest should be your powder charge- i use a digital for this- typically, you get a range of about 10 grains variance in cases between high and low, and pull and re-do the ones that are out of the range- you have to respect the headstamp as there can be as much as 10 grains difference between manufacturers- that way, doubles and squibs are almost eliminated- i don't do any more than 60 rounds at a time as that's all my case feeder takes in the 4 tubes in 44 mag- 15/tube - i find winchester to be the "lightest " case and federal to be the heaviest
dont think anyone mentioned it, but make sure your not spraying WD40 anywhere near your primers, powder or anywhere you reload. That stuff is like cryptonite for primers especially! Never tested it, but ive also heard it inerts powder?!
- Location
- Edmonton, Alberta
I will add another comment..
I think you need to spend about $40 and get yourself a loading block (tray that casing stand in) and a Lee Perfect Powder measure.
This will do 2 things. 1. Increase your speed 2. Decrease the likelihood of a mistake.
This way you can powder 30 - 50 rounds, visually inspect all of them (flashlight), then load them up. Faster and safer.
I think you need to spend about $40 and get yourself a loading block (tray that casing stand in) and a Lee Perfect Powder measure.
This will do 2 things. 1. Increase your speed 2. Decrease the likelihood of a mistake.
This way you can powder 30 - 50 rounds, visually inspect all of them (flashlight), then load them up. Faster and safer.
Here's how I ensure that I don't end up with a Squib or double load... and I don't need a loading block or tray or whatever.
I De-prime, size & prime all my brass (on my single stage press). Then, when I'm ready to load them, I grab one case at a time, charge it with powder and IMMEDIATELY seat a bullet to cap it. That way there's no chance of missing one of the cases in the 50 (or so) on a tray or mistakingly double charging one. I don't see how this takes much longer than charging all the cases in one go and then seating bullets on all - its still being done on a single stage press. But most importantly - I have peace of mind that I have charged and inspected each powder charge right before that bullet gets seated, so I know what's in there. I don't have to rely on doing a visual scan and hoping that my eye falls on the "odd man out"
SAFETY over speed. And as you've already demonstrated (OP), a small oversight can make a significant difference in your outcome. Now imagine if you had gone the other way with that powder charge and put too much in... could have been very bad. OP, because you're new to this, take your time, do it right, do it safely, and you'll be able to do it another day.
Another thing that comes to mind about having 50 cases sitting on a tray, charged with powder and sans bullet. Although its probably unlikely, I'd hate to bump that tray and have all that powder spill everywhere. All those poor granules of powder scattered every which way! What a sad sight....
Like I said, this is how I do it, I'm not saying this is the only way (there are quite obviously many other ways), but in MY experience, it works for ME. Other's mileage may vary, I'm simply sharing how I do it.
Remember; reloading is a hobby, so have fun, but always be safe.
I De-prime, size & prime all my brass (on my single stage press). Then, when I'm ready to load them, I grab one case at a time, charge it with powder and IMMEDIATELY seat a bullet to cap it. That way there's no chance of missing one of the cases in the 50 (or so) on a tray or mistakingly double charging one. I don't see how this takes much longer than charging all the cases in one go and then seating bullets on all - its still being done on a single stage press. But most importantly - I have peace of mind that I have charged and inspected each powder charge right before that bullet gets seated, so I know what's in there. I don't have to rely on doing a visual scan and hoping that my eye falls on the "odd man out"
SAFETY over speed. And as you've already demonstrated (OP), a small oversight can make a significant difference in your outcome. Now imagine if you had gone the other way with that powder charge and put too much in... could have been very bad. OP, because you're new to this, take your time, do it right, do it safely, and you'll be able to do it another day.
Another thing that comes to mind about having 50 cases sitting on a tray, charged with powder and sans bullet. Although its probably unlikely, I'd hate to bump that tray and have all that powder spill everywhere. All those poor granules of powder scattered every which way! What a sad sight....
Like I said, this is how I do it, I'm not saying this is the only way (there are quite obviously many other ways), but in MY experience, it works for ME. Other's mileage may vary, I'm simply sharing how I do it.
Remember; reloading is a hobby, so have fun, but always be safe.
Actually it would take weeks or months for finger oils to damage a primer - i have soaked primers in WD40 for a week and they still fired.
Everyone is off base talking about primer failure - the fact that the bullet left the case is proof that the primer ignited. If the primer did not ignite then the bullet would not have moved. We can be about 99.9% sure that there was no powder in the case.
As you will have noted, there are two schools of thought to prevent accidental double-charges or no-charges. Both are valid, although I go with the load-a-bunch-and-check-them-all-to-compare theory, using a strong light or a flashlight.
The most important thing is to work systematically. Whichever way you go, focus on the process. Do one thing, then do another, don't flop back and forth.
(My gut says no powder in that one. If it was contaminated propellant, you probably would've seen at least some unburned powder granuals and you didn't see that. If the primer was off, it's unlikely that you would've said that all the powder was burned. Eliminate those two and what's left? Not a certainty, but... As to the issue of lube, while oils and greases can degrade primers and propellants and while the need for lube with carbide dies is debatable, keep in mind that for a lot of rounds, lube is essential and we don't see a lot of duds due to it. Which leads back to the probability of a no-charge squib.)
I would go along with the point that you should right now be concerned that you may have double-charged one of the others. Weighing them would be a good idea - even the normal minor variations in case weight shouldn't be enough to hide a double-charge.
My call, anyway.
BTW, don't give up - it's all part of the learning curve. You walked away from this one with no missing body parts and no extra navels. A bit of irritation or embarrassment is small potatoes provided you learned something.
The most important thing is to work systematically. Whichever way you go, focus on the process. Do one thing, then do another, don't flop back and forth.
(My gut says no powder in that one. If it was contaminated propellant, you probably would've seen at least some unburned powder granuals and you didn't see that. If the primer was off, it's unlikely that you would've said that all the powder was burned. Eliminate those two and what's left? Not a certainty, but... As to the issue of lube, while oils and greases can degrade primers and propellants and while the need for lube with carbide dies is debatable, keep in mind that for a lot of rounds, lube is essential and we don't see a lot of duds due to it. Which leads back to the probability of a no-charge squib.)
I would go along with the point that you should right now be concerned that you may have double-charged one of the others. Weighing them would be a good idea - even the normal minor variations in case weight shouldn't be enough to hide a double-charge.
My call, anyway.
BTW, don't give up - it's all part of the learning curve. You walked away from this one with no missing body parts and no extra navels. A bit of irritation or embarrassment is small potatoes provided you learned something.
Ed Zachary. Even a small amount of powder would have enough energy to drive the bullet well into the lands. The description the OP gave of lightly tapping out the bullet is classic no powder results.
The quickest and most reliable method to prevent rounds without powder is to look into each case before seating a bullet. Requires no monkeying around with weights and measures and is 100% foolproof.
Good advice. I'll be using JoeDude's method when I get my bench set up, as I have 2 single stage presses. Glad to see the encouragement here, great forum!
From what I can tell and my inexperince with weights and how close the weights between bullets would be, I am just going to put this batch aside and when I get a bullet puller I'll break them apart and see if there is a double load somewhere,
I do have a tray and a lee powder dispenser, but I do not really trust it and have not worked a full container of powder through it like the manual says too, eventually I will start using it once I am sure of what I am doing
On to the next 20 bullets
I do have a tray and a lee powder dispenser, but I do not really trust it and have not worked a full container of powder through it like the manual says too, eventually I will start using it once I am sure of what I am doing
On to the next 20 bullets
It can take a bit of use to trust a measure, i started by weighing 1 in 10 then worked up so that now i may pull a random case out of a 50 block and check the charge. I prefer ball powder to a stick type, haven`t used to many flake powders in a measure and don`t remember if it worked well or not. I do pass the loading block under a good light and check to make sure i didn`t miss a case. Good luck and keep at it.
WRT the powder dispenser, what a lot of people (myself included) do is to adjust it until it throws a couple of correct charges in a row. After that, charge five cases with it and then reweigh the sixth. If it's still good, carry on and reweigh every 10 or 15. It doesn't add that much time to the process and you can still load the test charges.
If you want to pull them, there's nothing wrong with that and it's always better to be safe than sorry. On the other hand, you say you're using 5.3 gr of powder. Any double-charge or no-charge rounds will therefore be 5 grains heavier or lighter. Although there are variations in case weights, I would be very surprised if they were that much, especially in a relatively small case and especially if you were using one brand of case. So if you weighed them all and they all weighed within a grain or two of each other, I'd say you were good to go. But it's your call.
Like ATOM said, you definitely don't want to use your LP Powder Measure until you have it set to drop multiple consistent loads. More importantly, you don't want to use it as your sole means of measuring loads until you trust it.
Weight every load and keep adjusting until it starts throwing accurate volumes of powder - then I measure and weigh another 5 to make sure it stays consistent. Then I weigh every 5, and if I'm happy with those sometimes bump it up to every 10.
There's also nothing wrong with weighting every single load you throw with your powder measure. Its just a little more time consuming. You can set it so that it drops a slightly lighter load as a starting point and you can adjust your charge every time by trickling in what's missing to make sure its precise. This is exactly how I do it when I'm loading hunting rounds or if I'm looking to load up some very precise ammo. Also, it'll get you through that cycling a whole can of powder through it that Lee recommends much faster than never ever using it.
my first set-up was an rcbs partner press- and the lee scoops - after a while( this was before the invention of the turret) , i went to press, powder measure , and ANOTHER PRESS- that way i didn't have to change dies to seat the bullet- when the turret press came along, well that was just the cat's meow- now you couldn't GIVE me a single stage- but i still have my old lee turret, along with 3 1000s, a loadmaster, and a dillon 550- i had to fight real hard to get that second press back in the old days as the presses were about 75 bucks for a single stage, and i'm dead sure the gunshop was gouging
the smith had a far higher opinion of himself than he out to have had,and it showed in his pricing-
the smith had a far higher opinion of himself than he out to have had,and it showed in his pricing-
