The World’s Best Service Sixguns: The Webley Revolvers

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The World’s Best Service Sixguns: The Webley Revolvers

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/02/23/the-worlds-best-service-sixguns-the-webley-revolvers/

The World’s Best Service Sixguns: The Webley Revolvers

by Garry James • February 23, 2012

Most of us admit to having a guilty pleasure or two, and I will own up that I have more than my share. I love grade-Z black-and white horror movies, 1920s popular music, cats and Webley revolvers.

I remember some esteemed expert (it could have been Jeff Cooper) proclaiming a number of years ago the top-break Webley as one of the best military revolvers of all time. Can’t say I disagree — it’s got lot going for it if one doesn’t take into account it’s into its typically clunky British appearance. Like the SMLE, the Webley sure isn’t going to win any beauty contest, but also like the Enfield, looks ain’t everything. It’s one rugged piece of hardware.

The general impression is, as soon as the British decided to adopt a revolving pistol back in the 1850s, the Webley was the logical choice. Not so. Webleys, starting with the Mark I, would not officially enter British service until 1887, being preceded by Colts, Adamses, Tranters and Enfields.
The Birmingham gunmaker Philip Webley and his family had been in the firearms business since before the middle of the 19th century, manufacturing a successful line of single and double-action percussion revolvers, among other things.

Off to a good start, Webley played around with another solid frame revolver or two and then in 1877 entered the world of self-extraction with a hinged-frame revolver devised by gunmaker Charles Pryse. Termed the “No. 4,” this ingenious sixgun featured the forward hinged frame commonly associated with later Webleys, as well as a rebounding hammer safety setup and an improved cylinder lock.

To load a No. 4, all the shooter had to do was press in on a pair of paddle-shaped levers mounted on either side of the recoil shield. This action withdrew two crossbolts that locked into the topstrap, allowing the gun to be broken open by tilting the frame downward (not the barrel, as this had a tendency to clutter the action with sent cases), which forced a star extractor outward to remove the shells. The extractor then snapped back into position ones it reached the limit of its travel and allowed fresh rounds to be loaded into the chambers. The Webley-Pryse became a popular setup, adaptable to different frame sizes—all the way up to guns that could accommodate a special .577 revolver cartridge!

The famed “stirrup latch,” which is the release system most people think of when the name “Webley” comes up, was devised by designer Edwinson Green. It was simpler and more positive than the Pryse arrangement. To open the gun, one simply pushed forward on a lever on the left side of the frame. This unlatched an integral “U”-shaped bar from the rear of the topstrap, freeing the barrel assembly. Initially produced in high-quality civilian “W-G” models, it eventually became the chosen mechanism for the Mark I Webley that was officially adopted by the British Military in 1887.

The rugged .455 caliber Mark I Webley, which replaced the oddball .476 Mark I and Mark II Enfield revolvers after only seven years of service, had most of the characteristics we have come to recognize as the archetypical Webley revolver. With its thickest frame, short four-inch barrel, bird’s-head (or as the Brits all it “parrot-beak”) grip, lanyard ring, and V-shaped holster guides, it was the model for all the later military Webley revolvers up to the superb Mark VI, which first made its appearance during World War I. While retaining much of the original mechanism, the Mark VI had a square grip and six-inch barrel.

The Mark VI continued in British service as primary standard until 1927 when it was replaced with a smaller Webley-inspired No. 2 Mark I Enfield revolver in .380 caliber. This was Britain’s main service revolver in World War II, but as supplies began to run low, Webley again stepped into the breach, supplying .380 Mark IVs for war use.

Following WWII, Webley continued to produce police and civilian revolvers in different models, though eventually their cartridge guns were jettisoned in favor of air pistols and rifles.

There are enough different variants of Webleys (including the highly sought-after Webley-Fosbery automatic revolver) out there to provide the collector with a one-manufacturer hobby. I’ve collected them for years, and while I really enjoy studying and looking at them, I particularly like to shoot them.
Webleys: great guns, great history, great shooters — and on reflection, perhaps not such a guilty pleasure, after all.
 
I utterly refuse to argue with that.

All I have right now are a Navy Mark VI, a couple of Mark IV .380s from the Second War, and one of their little automatics..... and almost a set of the Enfield Number 2s.

One thing that people don't seem to mention is the fact that all of these share one common characteristic: they can be made with a minimum of machine-tools and built mostly from rolled FLAT stock. On the revolvers, the cylinder is the only major part for which round-bar stock is required. Likewise the amount of lathe-work is confined almost entirely to the cylinder; the rest of the gun can be made on a mill.

Utterly brilliant design and dead-reliable functioning. Add big, slow slugs and you have an awe-inspiring combat combination.

Best part is that they are fun on tin cans, too!

I just wish the .22 Mark IV with the 5-inch barrel was a bit more common. They are pure FUN!
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Thanks for posting this one, CYCLONE!
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Nice article, thanks for posting a link to it.

I'd have to agree with the author. I love my 1916 Mark VI .455 and take it to the range fairly regularly. I find its a pretty accurate shooter and you gotta love the huge chunk of lead it throws. Its also nice to know that if I miss with all six shots its heavy enough to club the zombies. :eek:
 
Would have been nice if they had come up with a more powerful .455 round, though, bring the loading closer to .45acp.

Webely #### time...
IMG_2910.jpg
 
Interesting that Julian Hatcher rates the .455, with its 265-grain HB bullet, ABOVE the .45ACP on the Hatcher Scale of Relative Stopping Power.

I have no desire to stand in front of one.
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I have been looking at these and enfields for a while, don't know much about them,this post helps (much appreciated) .Prices vary considerably ,I guess due to the model and condition ,I would like to start with a.455 cal, relatively inexpensive one.Can you folks steer me to any model #s that fit the bill,or which ones to stay away from?
Cheers Bob
 
Prices vary considerably ,I guess due to the model and condition ,I would like to start with a.455 cal, relatively inexpensive one.Can you folks steer me to any model #s that fit the bill,or which ones to stay away from?
Cheers Bob

Antiques both here and in the US command a higher premium than the latter made ones due to the legal status and what and where you can use them (for example of what we're not allowed to shoot cans, gongs, or other fun targets at my range but I can with antiques on private land). If you have your restricted license and like to shoot at your range an inexpensive option would be MK III and later (with longer barrels unless you have prohib). If you like to plink in the bush, private land, or anywhere you can legally discharge a non restricted firearm then you'll want to find an antique, which will be MKI and MKII (some MKIII are antique, but MK I and MKII are definetly antique by age), bulldogs, MP's, RIC's, WG's (by serial number not age), etc.

Model and condition of course drive price as well, but you can guarantee a better condition restriced will have a lower price than a lesser condition antique, and prohibs are even lower in price due to their classification. If it's a high condition, matching, unaltered gun then you can guarantee it has a collectors premium attached. As well there are some altered guns (by the factory) that have historical and collectors value that will command a collectors, or shooters premium.

Webley's are fun guns and really I can't say which one to stay away from. In fact I would say stay away from them all, because once you own one it tends to multiply like rabbits ;). The MK's and WG's are currently my favorite, but you can't discount the MP's, RIC, Bulldog, and others. There are some really neat designs in the Webley family, and even in one model type you'll find variation and the collection can arguably have 3 - 5 different type of MKI or bulldog for example.

Hope that helps Bob, happy shooting.
 
Antiques both here and in the US command a higher premium than the latter made ones due to the legal status and what and where you can use them (for example of what we're not allowed to shoot cans, gongs, or other fun targets at my range but I can with antiques on private land). If you have your restricted license and like to shoot at your range an inexpensive option would be MK III and later (with longer barrels unless you have prohib). If you like to plink in the bush, private land, or anywhere you can legally discharge a non restricted firearm then you'll want to find an antique, which will be MKI and MKII (some MKIII are antique, but MK I and MKII are definetly antique by age), bulldogs, MP's, RIC's, WG's (by serial number not age), etc.

Model and condition of course drive price as well, but you can guarantee a better condition restriced will have a lower price than a lesser condition antique, and prohibs are even lower in price due to their classification. If it's a high condition, matching, unaltered gun then you can guarantee it has a collectors premium attached. As well there are some altered guns (by the factory) that have historical and collectors value that will command a collectors, or shooters premium.

Webley's are fun guns and really I can't say which one to stay away from. In fact I would say stay away from them all, because once you own one it tends to multiply like rabbits ;). The MK's and WG's are currently my favorite, but you can't discount the MP's, RIC, Bulldog, and others. There are some really neat designs in the Webley family, and even in one model type you'll find variation and the collection can arguably have 3 - 5 different type of MKI or bulldog for example.

Hope that helps Bob, happy shooting.

Great post,,thanks,,I think ,now I gotta watch the ee,for just one ,and have it neutered before it multiplies!;0)
 
Great post, Loki 81! Puts it all in a nutshell.

Bobdbldr, don't worry about the thing multiplying. Just think of it as preserving an endangered species from extinction. Makes it all worthwhile. Far as I'm concerned, there is nuthin' as much fun as a Mark VI in original .455: roar like a lion, kick like a pussycat, hits like a freight-train..... and 4 cents a shot to reload for. Keep the loads down to original and you'll have zero problems and a lifetime of good shooting.

Here's one for us all:
PREVENT WASTE AND POLLUTION: HAVE YOUR LOCAL POLITICIAN SPAYED OR NEUTERED!
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Interesting that Julian Hatcher rates the .455, with its 265-grain HB bullet, ABOVE the .45ACP on the Hatcher Scale of Relative Stopping Power.

I have no desire to stand in front of one.
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My Lee chart shows the 265gr moving along at 790fps with XX amount of blue dot.
 
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