.300 Blackout SBR project completed...

is taking advantage of a cartridge that burns it's powder in 9" or less to produce a small, fast handling rifle that remains non restricted and can be used in the bush an odd project? I disagree.
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Not to mention that it can launch a 200+ grain bullet with about 10 grains of powder.


The bullets do exist, but not from a major mfg.

http://outlawstatebullets.com/2.html
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Have you seen the price of those things. :eek: Laugh2


Too bad semi-auto center fire is limited by barrel length as I think a 10.5" RA XCR in 300 Blackout would be the perfect deer pushing gun.
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It sounds like lots of guys in the US are using short barreled AR carbines in 300 BLK for hunting hogs. Nice compact package with a ton of stopping power and not a huge amount of noise.

I have shot my 10" 300 with a SPEX brake attached while not wearing hearing protection. In that configuration it actually does not hurt the ears.
 
:D
Suputin said:
Not to mention that it can launch a 200+ grain bullet with about 10 grains of powder.




Have you seen the price of those things. :eek: Laugh2

It sounds like lots of guys in the US are using short barreled AR carbines in 300 BLK for hunting hogs. Nice compact package with a ton of stopping power and not a huge amount of noise.

I have shot my 10" 300 with a SPEX brake attached while not wearing hearing protection. In that configuration it actually does not hurt the ears.
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Thats pretty standard for high end hunting bullets man. Right in between say a Barnes TTSX and a SWIFT A-Frame. You dont plink with high end hunting ammo. Once I get a good load worked up, that groups well, I might shoot 10 rounds a year at most of my hunting loads. Hopefully only 1 at each animal:D I would like to hear a short barreled rifle like the OP's with subsonic ammo. It would probably be quite a bit better on the ears I bet. One bad thing about the old magnums, hard on the ears. Now if we could just get the laws changed regarding suppressors like in New Zealand we would be set.
 
Price is irrelevant since we can't order them from him anyway. But, the concept has been proven, and with the growing popularity of 300 BLK, it's just a matter of time before one of the big guys start making something similar.
 
Can't wait for commercial ammo to make it into Canada.

The Remington UMC is pretty fair priced now at about $10.50 for 20rds. Not sure what that would work out to in Canada, but still. If you can get a crate for $600 or so, it's still a good deal.

The UMC has some pretty neat features you won't find on other economical ammunition.

Bring it on!
 
2bad4u2 said:
A man of reason. We're on the same page. ;) That's exactly why I built this SBR. Honestly, I hope it inspires others to build their own bolt gun SBR.


.
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I should hope we're on the same page! lol I'm in the process of building one.
It's certainly caused me to be a little less patient about my dies and barrel that are on order...

I think we are going to see more and more of these popping up with juanvaldez bringing in barrels that don't cost an arm and a leg.

now we just need a remington 700 & savage drop in chassis that takes AR mags. Paging NEA... you don't have to pay me for the idea, just send me one. :D

How long until we can get factory produced brass is the next question?
 
I like the idea about a short barreled 30 cal bolt action, but the cartridge choice is, i think just the flavour of the week, wouldn't a 1/8'' twist chambered in 308 be a better choice? You could load your typical 220-240gr subsonic loads, but you could also shoot full power 150-180gr loads for hunting, or 762 nato for plinking...away from a semi-auto i think the 300 blackout is pointless...i would like to see at least an accuracy report before making final judgment...props to the OP to trying at least....
 
matty86suk said:
I like the idea about a short barreled 30 cal bolt action, but the cartridge choice is, i think just the flavour of the week, wouldn't a 1/8'' twist chambered in 308 be a better choice? You could load your typical 220-240gr subsonic loads, but you could also shoot full power 150-180gr loads for hunting, or 762 nato for plinking...away from a semi-auto i think the 300 blackout is pointless...i would like to see at least an accuracy report before making final judgment...props to the OP to trying at least....
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A .308 Win SBR? You must be a masochist to even consider that. ;) it would be an anything but ideal for a barrel as short as 11.5". The muzzle blast would be hideous and the concussion would be something to behold. I don't know if you'd even burn better than half the powder capacity of the case in 11.5".

The .300 Blackout is not at all new. The concept was first tried in the 1960's with its direct descendent, the .300 Whisper, is now close to 30 years old. New? Flash in the pan? I don't think so.

There's no question that the .308 Win. is a far more flexible cartridge overall. However, it is not a wise choice for short barrelled firearms. All that extra velocity potential is lost due to insufficient barrel length.
 
matty86suk said:
I like the idea about a short barreled 30 cal bolt action, but the cartridge choice is, i think just the flavour of the week, wouldn't a 1/8'' twist chambered in 308 be a better choice? You could load your typical 220-240gr subsonic loads, but you could also shoot full power 150-180gr loads for hunting, or 762 nato for plinking...away from a semi-auto i think the 300 blackout is pointless...i would like to see at least an accuracy report before making final judgment...props to the OP to trying at least....
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try? there is no try. this man and many other have done it.
as for the .308 do all? no. you are incorrect.

The easiest way I can put this from reading around is this:
The .308 was not meant to be subsonic. there. said and done.
To obtain the subsonic performance out of the .308 you are going to be seeing a LOT of empty space in the brass which can lead to spontaneous disassembly.
You don't want less than 30% capacity and subsonic rounds require very little powder.

.308 has a case capacity of 3.64 ml or 56 gr.
300 blackout uses 9 grains of lilgun. way below 30%.
 
Case capacity isn't the factor, barrel length is. You can't compare a 24" barreled gun to one with a short barrel with the fast burning powders used in subsonic rounds. The powder burns up in the long barrel way before exiting in the long barrel. The two are a mismatch.

Shorten the barrel on the .308 to 16.5" or less as Whisper/Blackout barrels typically are and the velocities are stable with subsonic rounds, without adding lube.
 
kombayotch said:
Case capacity isn't the factor, barrel length is. You can't compare a 24" barreled gun to one with a short barrel with the fast burning powders used in subsonic rounds. The powder burns up in the long barrel way before exiting in the long barrel. The two are a mismatch.

Shorten the barrel on the .308 to 16.5" or less as Whisper/Blackout barrels typically are and the velocities are stable with subsonic rounds, without adding lube.
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Case capacity is relavent because of issues concerning load density and the greater potential for high standard deviation and extreme spread in velocities. The greater efficiency of the smaller case is generally going to give more consistent results for the desired level of velocity. Is it not?
 
2bad4u2 said:
Case capacity is relavent because of issues concerning load density and the greater potential for high standard deviation and extreme spread in velocities. The greater efficiency of the smaller case is generally going to give more consistent results for the desired level of velocity. Is it not?
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You are correct sir. Case capacity is important because 10gr of pistol powder gets lost in a big case which can result in inconsistent and even dangerous ignition problems. That can be overcome somewhat by using a specialized powder but in the end subsonic 308 has a much lower accuracy potential than the 300 Whisper can achieve.

Because the Whisper case is so much smaller it also loses much less velocity in a short barrel than a full sized cartridge.
 
2bad4u2 said:
Case capacity is relavent because of issues concerning load density and the greater potential for high standard deviation and extreme spread in velocities. The greater efficiency of the smaller case is generally going to give more consistent results for the desired level of velocity. Is it not?
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...i would like to see at least an accuracy report before making final judgment...props to the OP to trying at least....
 
matty86suk said:
...i would like to see at least an accuracy report before making final judgment...props to the OP to trying at least....
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You ask, and you shall receive. Here's (3) groups of 5-shots consecutive out of the Remington 700 .300 Blackout shown in my first post. Is this benchrest accurate? Hell no! This is just a starting load I began playing with. If I'm not mistaken, 14.8 gr. of H110 was the sweet spot for this combination. I don't have my load notes in front of me.

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As you can see, it's acceptable accuracy. I don't expect the Vanguard will shoot any different than the Remington. Both of these rifles were barrelled from the same blank, chambered by the same reamer and installed by the same gunsmith. The only difference is 4.5" in barrel length and some difference in taper. Having said all that, I don't expect any difference in accuracy potential between the rifles, though it's entirely possible.
 
rtracer13 said:
If you don't mind me asking how much did the 11.5" cost you to complete before optic? This is exactly what I'm hoping to get for my wife.
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Not at all. Here's the breakdown:

Donor rifle: $368 plus tax & shipping from Wholesale Sports.

Hogue Stock: $125 +/- plus tax & shipping. I already had the stock from another rifle I'd recently bought. If you had to buy one, I approximated the price.

Barrel: $???. Depends on what you want. I don't think a barrel of Kreiger's quality or price is necessary for this kind of project. So far, I'm happy with my decision to go with a Shilen blank. I don't believe more money spent would have bought me more accuracy potential considering the cartridge's intented use.

As mentioned, I used the remainder of the blank I'd used for my Rem. 700 .300 Blackout build, so really it didn't cost me anything. Most people would have thrown out the stub. I'm too God damn cheap to do that! :D It saved me from having to buy another barrel to achieve the same end results, so I'm ok with my frugality. ;)

Re-barrel job : $175 including tax.

Personally, if I were you I'd wait for the upcomming 700 SPS Tactical being chambered in .300 Blackout. If you can live with the 16" 1:7" twist barrel, I'd be inclined to buy that first to see if you liked the cartridge. You'd have no trouble selling the factory tube if you planned to re-barrel in the future.

It'll have the green camo Hogue stock as the current 700 AAC-SD model. It's not a bad factory stock but there are far better. The LTR stock is one of my favorites. I have (3) rifles with that stock now.
 
matty86suk said:
whats recoil like from the remington? can you spot your own hits?
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Honestly, I was surprised by the recoil. It was more than I thought it would be. Having said that, it's very mild compared to a .308 Winchester.

Subsonic 110gr. bullets are fun. Very minimal muzzle blast and I can hear the rounds hit the plywood backing that I stapled the target to @ 100 yds. If you look hard enough, you can see the bullets in flight similar to what you can do with .22 LR a the same distance.
 
2bad4u2 said:
Not at all. Here's the breakdown:

Donor rifle: $368 plus tax & shipping from Wholesale Sports.

Hogue Stock: $125 +/- plus tax & shipping. I already had the stock from another rifle I'd recently bought. If you had to buy one, I approximated the price.

Barrel: $???. Depends on what you want. I don't think a barrel of Kreiger's quality or price is necessary for this kind of project. So far, I'm happy with my decision to go with a Shilen blank. I don't believe more money spent would have bought me more accuracy potential considering the cartridge's intented use.

As mentioned, I used the remainder of the blank I'd used for my Rem. 700 .300 Blackout build, so really it didn't cost me anything. Most people would have thrown out the stub. I'm too God damn cheap to do that! :D It saved me from having to buy another barrel to achieve the same end results, so I'm ok with my frugality. ;)

Re-barrel job : $175 including tax.

Personally, if I were you I'd wait for the upcomming 700 SPS Tactical being chambered in .300 Blackout. If you can live with the 16" 1:7" twist barrel, I'd be inclined to buy that first to see if you liked the cartridge first.

It'll have the green camo Hogue stock as the current 700 AAC-SD model. It's not a bad factory stock but there are far better. The LTR stock is one of my favorites. I have (3) rifles with that stock now.
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Sweet thanks! I'll definitely consider that. I agree that for a bush gun a Krieger probably would be a bit much and shilens look very reasonable
 
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